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Author Topic: Yet Another Ruling Thread  (Read 2504 times)
Tal
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« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2013, 01:21:14 PM »

Faor enough. If anyone wants me, I'll be in the corner, sulking in a minority of one.

 
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« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2013, 05:16:21 AM »

Action is on UTG with 3 cards isn't it?
4 and 5 out of turn so that is not classed as action. The player with 3 cards is first to speak, he should be saying he has 3 cards. If he acts and then notices he has 3 cards his hand is dead.

Quote
1. Once action begins, a misdeal cannot be called.
Action has not begun

Misdeal
« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 05:19:00 AM by dik9 » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2013, 11:02:35 AM »

Action is on UTG with 3 cards isn't it?
4 and 5 out of turn so that is not classed as action. The player with 3 cards is first to speak, he should be saying he has 3 cards. If he acts and then notices he has 3 cards his hand is dead.

Quote
1. Once action begins, a misdeal cannot be called.
Action has not begun

Misdeal

In Roberts Rules, the 2 players acting is specific to the wrong number of cards scenario.  The definition of action for players acting out of turn is three in RR.

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« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2013, 01:57:27 PM »

Action is on UTG with 3 cards isn't it?
4 and 5 out of turn so that is not classed as action. The player with 3 cards is first to speak, he should be saying he has 3 cards. If he acts and then notices he has 3 cards his hand is dead.

Quote
1. Once action begins, a misdeal cannot be called.
Action has not begun

Misdeal

Perfect as always by Mr dik9.

Btw, generally nowadays, sufficient action is classed as 2 actions with chips, 3 without.
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« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2013, 02:05:02 PM »

doubleup, we usually see eye to eye, but in this case i have to disagree for a couple of reasons.

firstly, rr and tda define significant action as 2 actions with chips, or 3 without. 2 folds out of turn is not significant.

But my issue is with the fact UTG has got 3 cards, hasn't done anything wrong (not tried to play or fold them). He is still first to act this is pivotal in my decision. UTG + 1 in a similar scenario would be having a dead hand called.

It is quite rare for a single player to have 3 cards and it not be the button or sb. Something went wrong with the hand and the person who should start the action has 3 cards.



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dik9
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« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2013, 02:06:35 PM »

Action is on UTG with 3 cards isn't it?
4 and 5 out of turn so that is not classed as action. The player with 3 cards is first to speak, he should be saying he has 3 cards. If he acts and then notices he has 3 cards his hand is dead.

Quote
1. Once action begins, a misdeal cannot be called.
Action has not begun

Misdeal

Perfect as always by Mr dik9.

Btw, generally nowadays, sufficient action is classed as 2 actions with chips, 3 without.

Must buy beer Smiley
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« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2013, 02:14:51 PM »

doubleup, we usually see eye to eye, but in this case i have to disagree for a couple of reasons.

firstly, rr and tda define significant action as 2 actions with chips, or 3 without. 2 folds out of turn is not significant.

But my issue is with the fact UTG has got 3 cards, hasn't done anything wrong (not tried to play or fold them). He is still first to act this is pivotal in my decision. UTG + 1 in a similar scenario would be having a dead hand called.

It is quite rare for a single player to have 3 cards and it not be the button or sb. Something went wrong with the hand and the person who should start the action has 3 cards.


I just pointed out that in RR (widely accepted in card rooms) it is quite clear that the hand is dead.

I do think that ruling is a bit harsh, but shit happens.



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dik9
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« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2013, 02:20:08 PM »

It's been a while since I looked at RR but going on the OP's use. Using the
Quote
1. Once action begins, a misdeal cannot be called.
, if I had aces utg+1 and noticed that utg has 3 cards and i deliberately quick call or raise out of turn are you saying that the hand stands now I have made action (be it out of turn)?

Edit: just read the whole of that RR quote and it seems to indicate that your point is valid, however as it is out of turn i would have to use rule 1.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 02:28:36 PM by dik9 » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2013, 02:27:19 PM »



RR states

 The following circumstances cause a misdeal, provided attention is called to the error before two players have acted on their hands.....

....An incorrect number of cards has been dealt to a player

Whether that is good bad or indifferent, it is quite clear.
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dik9
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« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2013, 02:28:58 PM »

sorry just edited
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« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2013, 02:31:19 PM »

Just as a by the by, the dealer notices that at the point of noticing that utg has 3, he counts the mucked cards and there are 5? Same decision?
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« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2013, 02:55:57 PM »

Just as a by the by, the dealer notices that at the point of noticing that utg has 3, he counts the mucked cards and there are 5? Same decision?

Obv call for a new non sticky deck.

btw the thing about the RR rule is that if you are in the BB and don't look at your cards until it is your turn to act, and see that you have 3 cards, your hand is dead.

So if everyone folds to you and your hand is dead -- what happens to the blinds?Huh??
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