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Author Topic: Felt colluded against in UKPC DTD Mega sat just finished now on ipoker..  (Read 38755 times)
TightEnd
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« Reply #90 on: February 21, 2014, 01:27:14 AM »



I understand why Dom started it, but it should have been insta deleted.



It was posted at 2.10am

No mods online til the earliest 8am the next morning, then got to decide whether to remove, which might not have been an easy decision. No idea

by the time we locked it the damage (reputationally) was done.

I too would prefer the thread hadn't been created, makes a tricky situation trickier. These things happen in the heats of moments though
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« Reply #91 on: February 21, 2014, 01:29:38 AM »

FWIW I'm only saying they are entitled to defend themselves here because the allegation was made here.

If there hadn't been a thread, then it would have no place here imo.

They are free to defend themselves, and post hands if they wish.I just don't see what benefit it would have.

Hope people spare a thought for me. Milli was due to buy me lunch tomorrow, now he's backed out. Didn't even leave the £25 I asked him to leave at the cash desk for me to collect tomorrow. Some pathetic excuse about he wasn't allowed back in to do it or something. Sad

To clear their names?

At the moment they are accused of being cheats.

If I was innocent it would be more important to me to clear my name than anything else.

Isn't the best way to clear their name by getting I poker to change their decision, rather than all their mates saying 'aye, you done nothing wrong there bud' ?

Not when there's a thread on a forum where they are members detailing the allegations.

I don't think this thread should ever have existed.

I understand why Dom started it, but it should have been insta deleted.

If this thread was about me, and I was innocent, I would be mortified.

Aren't they guilty at the moment though?
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« Reply #92 on: February 21, 2014, 01:30:57 AM »

Did Dom start this knowing the players in question were blonde members or as a general moan?

A general complaint thinking players "involved" were most likely members on here. Soon confirmed on posts through the night

btw, I am also of the view that posting HH on here going forward makes no difference to the matter at hand, which is to provide proof to IPoker to reverse their decision, and hence to do the same with DTD, if the players can.
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The Camel
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« Reply #93 on: February 21, 2014, 01:31:03 AM »



I understand why Dom started it, but it should have been insta deleted.



It was posted at 2.10am

No mods online til the earliest 8am the next morning, then got to decide whether to remove, which might not have been an easy decision. No idea

by the time we locked it the damage (reputationally) was done.

I too would prefer the thread hadn't been created, makes a tricky situation trickier. These things happen in the heats of moments though

Yeah, I totally understand why Dom started it.

In his situation I might well have done exactly the same thing.

It's done now however.

And I think Milli and Guy should be given the right to reply if they so wish.

That's all I'm suggesting.

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« Reply #94 on: February 21, 2014, 01:34:09 AM »

FWIW I'm only saying they are entitled to defend themselves here because the allegation was made here.

If there hadn't been a thread, then it would have no place here imo.

They are free to defend themselves, and post hands if they wish.I just don't see what benefit it would have.

Hope people spare a thought for me. Milli was due to buy me lunch tomorrow, now he's backed out. Didn't even leave the £25 I asked him to leave at the cash desk for me to collect tomorrow. Some pathetic excuse about he wasn't allowed back in to do it or something. Sad

To clear their names?

At the moment they are accused of being cheats.

If I was innocent it would be more important to me to clear my name than anything else.

Isn't the best way to clear their name by getting I poker to change their decision, rather than all their mates saying 'aye, you done nothing wrong there bud' ?

Not when there's a thread on a forum where they are members detailing the allegations.

I don't think this thread should ever have existed.

I understand why Dom started it, but it should have been insta deleted.

If this thread was about me, and I was innocent, I would be mortified.

Aren't they guilty at the moment though?

As far as DTD and Ipoker are concerned they are guilty.

But as far as Blondepoker is concerned the case is not proven.

If their reputation on here is important to them, they should have the chance to defend themselves against the allegation.

If they are guilty or it doesn't matter to them, then who cares?
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« Reply #95 on: February 21, 2014, 01:36:57 AM »

FWIW I'm only saying they are entitled to defend themselves here because the allegation was made here.

If there hadn't been a thread, then it would have no place here imo.

They are free to defend themselves, and post hands if they wish.I just don't see what benefit it would have.

Hope people spare a thought for me. Milli was due to buy me lunch tomorrow, now he's backed out. Didn't even leave the £25 I asked him to leave at the cash desk for me to collect tomorrow. Some pathetic excuse about he wasn't allowed back in to do it or something. Sad

To clear their names?

At the moment they are accused of being cheats.

If I was innocent it would be more important to me to clear my name than anything else.

Isn't the best way to clear their name by getting I poker to change their decision, rather than all their mates saying 'aye, you done nothing wrong there bud' ?

Not when there's a thread on a forum where they are members detailing the allegations.

I don't think this thread should ever have existed.

I understand why Dom started it, but it should have been insta deleted.

If this thread was about me, and I was innocent, I would be mortified.

Aren't they guilty at the moment though?

As far as DTD and Ipoker are concerned they are guilty.

But as far as Blondepoker is concerned the case is not proven.

If their reputation on here is important to them, they should have the chance to defend themselves against the allegation.

If they are guilty or it doesn't matter to them, then who cares?

what blondepoker and its mass of posters thinks does not matter Keith

If the bans are reversed, then members will know. If not, individual members will decide for themselves whether that is a problem or not in their relationships with the banned players. For many people Guy and David's reputation will not have altered one jot today.

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« Reply #96 on: February 21, 2014, 01:40:40 AM »

FWIW I'm only saying they are entitled to defend themselves here because the allegation was made here.

If there hadn't been a thread, then it would have no place here imo.

They are free to defend themselves, and post hands if they wish.I just don't see what benefit it would have.

Hope people spare a thought for me. Milli was due to buy me lunch tomorrow, now he's backed out. Didn't even leave the £25 I asked him to leave at the cash desk for me to collect tomorrow. Some pathetic excuse about he wasn't allowed back in to do it or something. Sad

To clear their names?

At the moment they are accused of being cheats.

If I was innocent it would be more important to me to clear my name than anything else.

Isn't the best way to clear their name by getting I poker to change their decision, rather than all their mates saying 'aye, you done nothing wrong there bud' ?

Not when there's a thread on a forum where they are members detailing the allegations.

I don't think this thread should ever have existed.

I understand why Dom started it, but it should have been insta deleted.

If this thread was about me, and I was innocent, I would be mortified.

Aren't they guilty at the moment though?

As far as DTD and Ipoker are concerned they are guilty.

But as far as Blondepoker is concerned the case is not proven.

If their reputation on here is important to them, they should have the chance to defend themselves against the allegation.

If they are guilty or it doesn't matter to them, then who cares?

what blondepoker and its mass of posters thinks does not matter Keith

If the bans are reversed, then members will know. If not, individual members will decide for themselves whether that is a problem or not in their relationships with the banned players. For many people Guy and David's reputation will not have altered one jot today.



Well I disagree with that.

Your reputation is more important than whether you are banned from a cardroom or a online poker site.

In my opinion obviously.
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« Reply #97 on: February 21, 2014, 01:44:39 AM »

One of my best friends is banned from virtually every casino and card room in the country.

Yet I trust him more than many of the people who have a spot less record of never being banned.
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« Reply #98 on: February 21, 2014, 01:46:46 AM »

Perhaps I phrased it wrong

Whatever they post on here will make no difference to the ban being reversed or not, and any reputational loss being restored

Far better to do it privately, and concentrate on the important stuff than being distracted on this thread

In my opinion
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« Reply #99 on: February 21, 2014, 01:55:06 AM »

Perhaps I phrased it wrong

Whatever they post on here will make no difference to the ban being reversed or not, and any reputational loss being restored

Far better to do it privately, and concentrate on the important stuff than being distracted on this thread

In my opinion

It depends what's important to them.

And if they are innocent.

As they played on the same IP address I would think that's enough to get them banned from IPoker. And nothing will change that.

That doesn't make them cheats though.

So if they are innocent, then publishing HHs showing they didn't collude definitely would repair their reputation.

If they did cheat, then their reputation deserves to be in tatters.
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« Reply #100 on: February 21, 2014, 01:57:33 AM »

Christ I'm a crap poster nowadays.

Taken about 10 posts to make the point I should have been able to make succinctly in 1.

And people will still probably think I'm trying to defend Guy and David.
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« Reply #101 on: February 21, 2014, 01:59:37 AM »


So if they are innocent, then publishing HHs showing they didn't collude definitely would repair their reputation.


This (publishing HH's that look understandable from a satellite strategy perspective) doesn't definitely prove the charge at hand one way or another. Other factors are at play are they not? Collusion Software detects long term playing histories and patterns therein for example?

Not expressing a view on this particular case, btw, as I don't know all the facts.
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« Reply #102 on: February 21, 2014, 02:00:49 AM »

Think it's really really tough to determine collusion in a sat. If i were looking for collusion i'd need to see someone do something v.different from their general play thus far e.g. raise/folding to a certain player who is v.short in order to dump chips where they had previously only been only jamming/folding etc. Giving walks/ not calling all-ins are impossible to judge.

A lot of spots where one person may think a player can't fold, another may fold because they don't have to play a hand. Even if there was a spot where someone makes a clear error... it's not proof, people just don't play perfectly. I can't imagine the collusion detection would be done using a computer as the normal 'rules' and ranges of normal tournament poker just don't apply. Like I said, i'd need to see someone do something really out of the ordinary and/or have some sort of proof of intent to collude (whether it be in chat or via PMs).

Think we have to assume for now that due diligence has been given to the matter and that it is a correct decision before rubbishing the conclusions that have been drawn, although i'd be very interested to know how they came to the decision. I for one am a pretty experienced satellite player, but i'd find it v.difficult to prove conclusively that x, y or z had colluded in any given satellite given all HHs from one.

(edit: for balance i'd also find it very difficult to prove that collusion hadn't occurred)

Hope it's not true, but i'm sure it goes on. I feel like if people were smart about it then it would be basically undetectable... so you have to have some element of faith in human decency when playing these things. I don't see much of a way to prevent it completely. Obviously banning chat and going H4H are two things that make it noticeably more difficult.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 02:02:43 AM by WotRTheChances » Logged
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« Reply #103 on: February 21, 2014, 02:02:09 AM »

Christ I'm a crap poster nowadays.

Taken about 10 posts to make the point I should have been able to make succinctly in 1.

And people will still probably think I'm trying to defend Guy and David.

You are still the Master.
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« Reply #104 on: February 21, 2014, 02:02:53 AM »


So if they are innocent, then publishing HHs showing they didn't collude definitely would repair their reputation.


This (publishing HH's that look understandable from a satellite strategy perspective) doesn't definitely prove the charge at hand one way or another. Other factors are at play are they not? Collusion Software detects long term playing histories and patterns therein for example?

Not expressing a view on this particular case, btw, as I don't know all the facts.

Would I trust IPoker's collusion software to differentiate between a satellite and a regular tournament?

Absolutely not.

They don't even turn chat off as the bubble looms ffs.
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