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Author Topic: FOBT's  (Read 24828 times)
gouty
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« Reply #105 on: April 22, 2014, 10:38:40 PM »

they will make way more revenue long term with VAT/employers/ee's NI/income tax/corporation tax from the spend elsewhere and have far less social problems to invest in.  Racing should also be much better off as much of the same spend will be spent on racing and the levy rather than just straight into the tills of these 'bookmakers' who won't lay a bet unless they have gtd 3% edge.
That doesn't work out as the biggest losers on fobts are not that interested in horses. I agree that it's great in the long term but still cannot see any govt. having the balls to try.
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redarmi
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« Reply #106 on: April 22, 2014, 10:50:21 PM »

Don't think the banning of FOBTs would cause more than the merest of ripples on the market either.
On budget day Hills dropped 6% on a 5% tax hike so imagine the drop if they were gone?

This is massive politically.

It is totally academic though because they will never shut them down completely and as for the idea that the shops need to take 30k a week without FOBT's that is assuming that non of the other providers make changes.  It is very likely that Turf TV, SIS, the Gaming Commission, the revenue etc would all lower prices rather than see 2/3rds of shops shut as you suggest because they would lose too much revenue.  Those costs have gone up because shops can afford them with the extra revenues from FOBT's.
I see. So the racecourses will not want their £6k a race from the betting shops anymore?  This is not how market forces work.

That is exactly how market forces work.  Do you really think that mssrs Glynn, Topping, Done and Hornby won't immediately look to renegotiate the levy if FOBT's are banned?  They will also be on the phone to SIS, Turf TV etc telling them that they will be shutting half their shops if they don't reduce their fees etc.  That is the whole basis of their campaign at the moment and if something is done about FOBT's then they will immediately look to renegotiate those contracts.  The whole point of closing shops etc is to reduce overheads but you don't only look at staffing and rents when assessing where you can make savings so it is inevitable that the other industries relying on betting will have to take a hit too and they will be expecting that.
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arbboy
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« Reply #107 on: April 23, 2014, 11:27:00 AM »

Everyone in the racing/betting industry have effectively been subsidised by fobt's for the last 10 years even though the vast majority of products have nothing to do with fobt's the indirect money flying around the industry has come from fobt's.  The amount the Racing Post will be able to charge for adverts will fall if FOBT's get banned even though no firm has ever once used a RP advert to promote FOBT play.  Major race sponsorship by betting firms will fall for exactly the same reason.  That's just the way the industry works.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 11:32:01 AM by arbboy » Logged
gouty
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« Reply #108 on: April 23, 2014, 03:49:52 PM »

Don't think the banning of FOBTs would cause more than the merest of ripples on the market either.
On budget day Hills dropped 6% on a 5% tax hike so imagine the drop if they were gone?

This is massive politically.

It is totally academic though because they will never shut them down completely and as for the idea that the shops need to take 30k a week without FOBT's that is assuming that non of the other providers make changes.  It is very likely that Turf TV, SIS, the Gaming Commission, the revenue etc would all lower prices rather than see 2/3rds of shops shut as you suggest because they would lose too much revenue.  Those costs have gone up because shops can afford them with the extra revenues from FOBT's.
I see. So the racecourses will not want their £6k a race from the betting shops anymore?  This is not how market forces work.

That is exactly how market forces work.  Do you really think that mssrs Glynn, Topping, Done and Hornby won't immediately look to renegotiate the levy if FOBT's are banned?  They will also be on the phone to SIS, Turf TV etc telling them that they will be shutting half their shops if they don't reduce their fees etc.  That is the whole basis of their campaign at the moment and if something is done about FOBT's then they will immediately look to renegotiate those contracts.  The whole point of closing shops etc is to reduce overheads but you don't only look at staffing and rents when assessing where you can make savings so it is inevitable that the other industries relying on betting will have to take a hit too and they will be expecting that.
Well I disagree with all of that, however I respect your right to your opinion and agree that it ain't gonna matter anyway as the status quo will remain.
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bookiebasher
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« Reply #109 on: April 24, 2014, 01:57:56 PM »

Looking at the bigger picture , what does everyone think about online casino's ?

The fob's are visible , you can see how much people are putting in , you can see the clustering of
betting shop's to accommodate the vulnerable in society.

What you do not see are the people at home , those with time on their hands , bored  , who would never
go in a bookies,  but because it's anonymous and in the privacy of their own home , can do £1000's and £1000's
in a very short time. There must be loads of horror stories where wealthy widow's have lost fortunes on gaming sites
chasing losses but the focus is purely on fobs and on Betting Shops.

Without doubt the bookies are just playing lip service to the Government and there are certainly issues with the
fob's but to tackle these without looking at online gaming is taking a one sided view.

On a practical level if the bookmakers were serious in dealing with this problem then they would not allow the fob's
to accept debit cards. I know of one instance where a £1 punter on the horses put £11k in a fob over 2 days before
barring himself. If the punter kept having to go to the bank to withdraw money I doubt he would have done his dough,
or at least not 11k and not in 2 days !

The horse has bolted as far as the fob's are concerned , a bit like betfair in a way ( Just think it's wrong that you can lay
a horse to lose , it's open to abuse ) , so would be very surprised if they were banned in any shape or form.

Would suggest around 10-15% of betting offices would close within 6 months if it did happen but just can't see the
Government giving up on all that revenue stream.

And don't get me started on those bloody adverts.......Game On 





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Kmac84
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« Reply #110 on: April 24, 2014, 07:00:50 PM »

Personally I have played an online casino < 5 times lifetime.  First time was when I first played poker, clicking buttons on baldy when i never knew what i was doing and somehow managed to run £50 into £1100 in a few hours and then in minutes managed to dump off a grand playing roulette.  Other times  have been when i have been drunk and playing on a cardroom with a casino with a mixed degree of luck.  I never enjoyed it and found the music tilting. 

But I think Arbboy was spot on ITT earlier when he summed it up that the same people who do their nuts in the B&M's are less likely to have access to an online casino. 

Regarding the roulette machines in the bookies I haven't played them myself > 3 year. I generally use a variety of bookmakers to get my bets on during the day particularly if there is something running I like because I can't get more than £50 on any early price and I go for a walk around town to different books on lunch and stick a small lucky 15 on the BAGS but its the same faces, same types you see playing these machines. 
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aaron1867
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« Reply #111 on: April 25, 2014, 11:29:26 AM »

Apparently Hills are going to close shops.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27153475
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arbboy
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« Reply #112 on: April 30, 2014, 06:41:55 PM »

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/apr/30/maximum-stake-fixed-odds-betting-terminals-restricted

the big 4 have basically got away scott free and can carry on as you were effectively.
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Cf
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« Reply #113 on: May 01, 2014, 12:31:15 AM »

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/apr/30/maximum-stake-fixed-odds-betting-terminals-restricted

the big 4 have basically got away scott free and can carry on as you were effectively.

The introduced measures are complete bullshit.

They'd have been as well doing nothing.

Hell, in some ways that would probably have come across better than the measures they've decided to impose.
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arbboy
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« Reply #114 on: May 01, 2014, 12:38:49 AM »

They have effectively done nothing.  So you can only load £50 on instead of £100 unless you have an online account (wtf has that got to do with anything apart from them knowing if you are a winner or loser) or the staff in the shop agree to it.  Like they will ever not agree to it esp in balds when their bonus depends on it.  Plus if you have more than £100 in the machine already in credit you will be able to still bet £100 a spin as before.  Comical.  Nice to know the big 4 have the govt in their back pockets still.
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redarmi
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« Reply #115 on: May 01, 2014, 01:18:08 PM »

They might have effectively done nothing but it still hasn't stopped the usual suspects moaning it in still.  Some of the quotes in todays holy ghost are laughably bleak considering they have just had the best result since Foinavon.
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arbboy
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« Reply #116 on: May 01, 2014, 01:31:46 PM »

They might have effectively done nothing but it still hasn't stopped the usual suspects moaning it in still.  Some of the quotes in todays holy ghost are laughably bleak considering they have just had the best result since Foinavon.

I am actually just sitting here reading the post and laughing at their negative comments.  Behind closed doors they must be rofl and high fiving each other how they have effectively got 'business as usual' signal from the govt.  When does this start?  Today?  I am going to go into a betting shop and just demand i can keep having £100 spins to the bird behind the counter just to see what they do and how many £100 spins they will allow before they 'look after' me and say 'no more sir'
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arbboy
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« Reply #117 on: November 27, 2014, 01:04:50 AM »

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-2847834/MARKET-REPORT-Gambling-bookmakers-future-risky-business-amid-calls-cap-wagers-controversial-fixed-odds-betting-terminals.html

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=LAD.L#symbol=LAD.L;range=2y

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/ladbrokes-track-turnaround-takes-hold-091834525.html

How much lower can Ladbrokes' shares go?  The company is barely valued at £1bn now even though they own the best part of 10,000 fobts which generate close to £1000 per machine per week?  (That's £500m a year).  Would Ladbrokes even exist as a business if FOBT's were banned over night?

This is very funny if true.

https://twitter.com/Mattdhurley/status/536919209364946944

http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-racing/adam-hurley-ladbrokes-man-hurley-bags-betting-shop-award/1779726/#newsArchiveTabs=last7DaysNews
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 01:25:16 AM by arbboy » Logged
arbboy
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« Reply #118 on: November 27, 2014, 01:10:53 AM »

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/limit-crack-cocaine-gambling-machine-bets-to-2-say-councils-9877715.html
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arbboy
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« Reply #119 on: December 03, 2014, 01:08:06 PM »

Ladbrokes finally bite the bullet and fire their clueless CEO.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/dec/03/ladbrokes-chief-steps-down

Tikay will be happy his Ladbrokes shares might finally stop free falling!
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