Marks-ups getting out of hand

[mulhuzz]

Just @bankoftimex it if you're unsure

[RED-DOG]

People play roulette. The odds are poor. They know that. They don't care.

[Marky147]

People play roulette. The odds are poor. They know that. They don't care.

You've obviously never met Tonytats, Tom

[nirvana]

A new version of Godwins law

Anyone who has to get other people to (part) fund their poker buy ins is no altruist. They are people who know they will probably lose and so want to share their losses - how kind

[MereNovice]

A new version of Godwins law

Anyone who has to get other people to (part) fund their poker buy ins is no altruist. They are people who know they will probably lose and so want to share their losses - how kind

I believe that there are some people who might sell shares in their tournament(s) in order to provide some vicarious pleasure for stakers who would never get to play those events themselves. That seems pretty altruistic to me.

[scotty2hatty]

Dreenie do you think being a girl helps when selling packages? Think people more likely to take a chance etc?

Point being there's pub near me that has poker after hours, occasionally pop in on way home when drunk and donate- a youngish girl was in game, she had spun £40 case money into £250 and I obv stacked her. She was devastated and nearly in tears, she got young kid etc. So I gave her the money back. Now of that was a bloke id probably be more along the lines "shouldn't be playing with last money etc"

Being popular obviously helps when charging markup and selling , just wondering whether being female helps as well

Not a dig at you at all btw, just curious how people think

Did you give her the £40? or the £250?

[Ironside]

i have been staked at a ridiculous mark up for a once in a life time (probably) comp it started at a joke and i didnt expect it to happen

i dont think i would sell part of me in a normal comp i would just play lower comps are around

instead of playing a £300 comp at DtD and selling 50% of myself at 1.2 i would rather buy myself in a £100 comp so i keep all the money
basically all you are doing by selling yourself is reducing the buy in and the amount you can win

being on a long term stake is obviously different as is one time comps or yearly comps like UKIPT but i wouldnt do it for a monthly deepstack
or even for every major comp at my casino or poker club

[OffTheRadar]

Is it unethical to knowingly sell at a higher markup than ones ROI? I don't think I've ever done it but occasionally see threads here (and very often see threads on 2+2) where people are either deluding themselves or taking advantage of the fact that they're popular. I'm all for market decides price and all that but not sure that entirely sits well with me.

You're missing a couple of key points here. Firstly, expected ROI is going to be higher in a SCOOP than in a normal event. Secondly, this is even more the case in a non-holdem game such as PLO8. Do I think this justifies the player in question charging a 1.3 mark-up? IMO it's questionable, but that's between the player and his backers. Do I think it's possible that a player can charge more than his long-term ROI for a one-off event such as a SCOOP in theory - absolutely.

[Rupert]

I wasn't referring to any particular case.

I don't think it's fair to say ROIs are arbitrarily higher for all winning players because it's SCOOP. In the 2ks I'd say the breakeven regs become losing regs, the small winners become breakeven, and the big winners probably win bigger.

Also I don't think it's limited to big events. I think there's threads literally every week from some local live tournies to EPT mains where people are very likely charging more markup than their ROI (again, not referring to any thread in particular and don't have any examples to hand but could easily find some).

I'm more interested if people think it's scummy or if it's just being smart.

[Dubai]

Delusion is the reason, rather than people being scummy. It's also the reason why the games are still good and tournys get so many runners.

90%+ of people in any given tournament would declare themselves above average for the field id guess. Maybe 95%+.

Luckily 99% of that 95% are simply deluded.

[Dubai]

Without being super smart and analytical it's hard for people to understand how they can go deep in x tournament or win y tournament, and not be able to repeat.

I refer to it as "Chasing the dragon"- seeking the same high you once had that probably you won't reach again. Poker is littered with people that ruined their careers chasing the dragon

[scotty77]

Dubai wins yet another thread.

[lucky_scrote]

I agree regarding delusion. I was there a few years ago. I think all staking threads should include a sharkscope graph, from there you can explain what certain markup is justified.

For example last 12 months my ABI is $30 with an ABI of 35% and I sold a SCOOP package at around 1.15 (These are estimates, I'm on my phone).  I'm offering investors a chance to make money as well as charging a bit of mark-up.

Generally people don't post up sharkscope graphs because they believe that they have miraculously improved in a short time or have just been unlucky thus far. Some dont need to post graphs because they are just very good at poker and everyone knows it.

[celtic]

I think there are two different things happening here. One is a debate about mark up. Clearly stated mark up. The other is selling shares in yourself, without stating the mark up, which is what I believe the person on fb did. And as far as I'm aware, it's not the first time he's used this method of promoting his shares.

I think it's fine that people question the second way, as dreenie did. Selling with the line of '£40 for a chance to win £2k' is ok, but what the average punter won't get, or realise, is that that shares true value may be only £25, therefore they are getting their leg lifted. I'm not saying that this is the case here, but not everyone is as savvy as they should be on the internet.

[Rupert]

I don't think it's good form to ever not state markup and I don't think you can really argue against that, facebook or not