Sky 6 max UKPC Staking Package

[tikay]

Ah the good old makeup argument

Will explain why a horse is worth more to a backer when he has higher makeup than none tho- it's the opposite of the real world, worse you are doing the more value you have to the "company (backer)" and more demands you can make

Reason is- when a player has 0 makeup and is on a long term 50/50 deal- the first tournament he plays it's the equivalent of the backer paying 2.0 for shares in that tournament. However if a player has 100k makeup and first prize is 100k, then it's the equivalent of the backer buying shares at spot aka 1.0 in they tournament. Therefore theoretically the higher the players makeup in relation to the tournament prize pool, the better the investment appears as a one off for the backer


Which is why people get let go when they clear makeup, as it's the point they are worth the least to their backer

That is SO counter-intuitive. I am quite sure you are right (no, really), but I need an hour in a dark room to think it through.

I certainly know several players who are scared to get out of MU in case they get dropped. It all just feels so odd to me. It's almost as if both parties prefer the MU to be big!

Guess I live in a different world.

Was great to see you last week, you really seemed to have your poker head on, & your stack was up & down like an up & down thing.

[tikay]

The main problem with regards to backing people particularly in mtts is that a huge portion of the players that need backing/are backed fit into the 0-20 region. Now what this means is they are somewhere between break even and 20% roi winner- now obviously on paper a 20% winner is fine- problem being when you factor into variance, playing expenses, living costs it now becomes a massive issue. They simply can't win enough money to sustain the costs of living associated with life and tournament poker, so they end up borrowing on makeup, putting expenses on makeup and the figure starts to rise- bear in mind they are only a 20% roi winner at best and that's when they are playing well. Now they start playing slightly worse and are only a very tiny winner, some bad variance when deep can mean huge downswings for these types of players whilst continuing to borrow and seek the big win to get out. Now the figures too big and they are probably a small losing -roi player. GG

I agree with all that. It seems to me that many have no chance of ever getting out of it, & end up playing for nothing, in effect.

I am not dissing the thing, I just find it all a bit weird.

[Dubai]

Well you have your anomalies- they include people who are actually good (pretty rare). People who don't need money to live on so doesn't matter if they are skint (not as rare as you would think), and people who run good and just hit a big bink when under it and nearly drawing dead. The ability to play as well in big makeup as you would normally is obv a huge factor.

So you ideally want someone good, who isn't bothered about makeup and who can live on beans on toast happily for huge parts of the year, that also might run good


Hence why Middy was a great person for people to back- even Jordan Belfort started off skint

[Dubai]

Ideal horses are probably young kids, fresh from uni- super smart, been eating Supernoodles for 3 years so another few months doesn't faze them- hungry not just physically but probably enjoy poker and want to play etc, particularly if they are relatively new to the gambling world. Only downside is these people probably aren't top tier at poker but they can end up there

[mondatoo]

Well you have your anomalies- they include people who are actually good (pretty rare). People who don't need money to live on so doesn't matter if they are skint (not as rare as you would think), and people who run good and just hit a big bink when under it and nearly drawing dead. The ability to play as well in big makeup as you would normally is obv a huge factor.

So you ideally want someone good, who isn't bothered about makeup and who can live on beans on toast happily for huge parts of the year, that also might run good


Hence why Middy was a great person for people to back- even Jordan Belfort started off skint

Throw in Nando's sauce and we got a deal.

[tikay]

I think Tikay is right in that if you take the poker playing population as a whole then the (vast) majority is NOT staked. Tikay knows the vast majority of players play at the microstakes.

In EPTs etc however, the number of people that truly have put in 100% of the money themselves and have kept 100% of the action is very low.

Agree 100% with all of that.

I only made the point because I see these myths bandied about & they soon become "facts". And it is beyond belief how many people believe everything they read, & start perpetuating the myth. (see "online poker is rigged", "Ladbrokes river card" & all that guff). I was deffo not dissing dreenie, just needed to make the point.

blonde is a very odd place, because it has a disproportionate number of "bigger" players, many - perhaps most - are used to the world of staking. In truth, in the wider world, there are gazillions of micro-limit players who have never even heard of staking, & would be appalled at the mere thought.

If you study the daily, weekly & monthly amount of Online Poker Traffic in the UK, for example, it peaks towards the month end, & early the next month, after people get paid, or receive their rakeback. Then it declines gradually until the next monthly payday. These players represent the huge majority of "regular" poker players.

There are squillions of players who deposit, say, £10 or £25 a month, sometimes by standing order, & stop playing for the month once it has all gone, then return next month.

These players don't hold much interst for regular blondes, but they are, by a huge margin, the biggest by number of players.

[tikay]

5 fig makeup totes standard teeks!

I've ran well to have never been in too much given what I play. But better players who play lower stakes have got in more than that and out again multiple times over!

Well yes, I suppose so, but my point was not that, it was the fear of getting out of make up that had me scratching my head in the specific cases I alluded to.

Even so, try explaiing 5 figure make-up to a non poker player, or a random in Tesco, & you'll get some funny looks.

[tikay]

being backed on a long term make up deal to play mtts is ever so slightly different to being thrown in at the last minute only because rob is doing his nuts on an overlay and phoning anyone who will stake anyone into it to save his arse.  Is it only me who notices the same groups of people buying in late to mtt's at dtd when there is an overlay who never normally play there and all have 'connection's' shall we say to one or two big players in the game with money?  They are on a spin up/freeroll and will only win £1/2k even if they win the event as they hold such a small % of themselves therefore, by the very nature of this, will gamble much more aggressively than if they have 100% of themselves.  That's just human nature.

I appreciate the vast majority of people are staked.  I ain't as stupid as i look whatever you may think.  I know who is staked by who generally.  I keep my ear/eyes to the ground.

Yo ArgueBoy.

I don't think that is true, far from it.

A LOT of players are staked, fine, so be it, but the VAST majority are not staked. It's not even close.

If you mean those who played the UKPC last week, it's a lot closer, but the majority would have played on their own money. 

I would be amazed if 250 of the field in the £1k had 100% of their own action tikay.  If you include swaps (which is effectively selling in a different way to smooth variance) i would be amazed if 100 people had 100% of their own action.  Your statement is obviously correct in the whole poker community including all stakes down to the micros.

I would not argue with a word of that.

But the wider poker world as a whole is a very different thing to a Big Boys Fessie.

I'm sure if I had the self-confidence, ability & track record, I'd happily sell action when I want to play, say, a £500 Omaha jobbie.

[arbboy]

how did the first timer from stoke get on tikay?  He looked scared to death before day 1 started when you introduced him to me!  Hope he had a good day and enjoyed it.

[Rexas]

how did the first timer from stoke get on tikay?  He looked scared to death before day 1 started when you introduced him to me!  Hope he had a good day and enjoyed it.

Probably because he was afraid if he did something wrong he'd get berated and have his hendon mob displayed on various forums.

[arbboy]

how did the first timer from stoke get on tikay?  He looked scared to death before day 1 started when you introduced him to me!  Hope he had a good day and enjoyed it.

Probably because he was afraid if he did something wrong he'd get berated and have his hendon mob displayed on various forums.

Nice work i set myself up well for that gag there!  He looked scared to death in general as it was his first ever live mtt and he wasn't on my table.  Must be an incredible feeling playing your first ever live mtt for that sort of money.  Never understand why people don't go to their local casino the week before and just play a bowlfest for a score and just get used to the feel of the chips etc.

[tikay]

how did the first timer from stoke get on tikay?  He looked scared to death before day 1 started when you introduced him to me!  Hope he had a good day and enjoyed it.

Now there's a great question.

For context, this was a lad who had never played Live before, & qualified for 60p, or in a Freeroll, or similar. He perfectly repersents the type of player I was talking about earlier. 

A thread was started next door wishing him good luck, & all the other "small-ball" players went on & wished him well. The thread ran to 4 pages.

I'll post his review, but you'll have to pardon the references to me, but this is what I do, this is what Tighty, only half-mockingly, means when he refers to me doing "Front of House". I try & help players like this enjoy the day, & "live the dream", which was why I introduced him to you & many other "faces". I did the same with 10 or 12 lads, & I'm sure the Big Boys were wondering "wtf?" when I kept wheeling these lads up to meet them. But just look at the awe in his post. I introduced one newbie to Sam Trickett, & the kid nearly fainted, & I'm pretty sure he bowed to Sam. These lads will never forget that day.

And that's my point about blonde being a different world. The blondes turn up at UKPC or UKIPT as if it is nothing. To some, though, it is, literally, their lifetime poker best moment ever, & will never be repeated. These lads are the foundation of the poker economy, we should never forget that. Quite how they react to being called "fish" I'm not quite sure. They have very little chance of winning much, but we should look after them.

Incidentally, he busted end of day one when he took a correct flip, but ended up the wrong side of it. I would have SO loved him to have made Day Two.

I'll c & p his Post, & the thread, next. It made my day, I can tell you.

[tikay]

".....one of the best days of my lifewhat can i say,simply amazing,

i arrived at 11.30 with the wife me bro and his lady stood at the door for about 5 mins just taking it all in spotted Tikay talking to some grumpy guy at the merchandise counter he walked past me i didn't,t dare say owt(was abit nervous tbh)next thing i know im sat down with a bunch of chips the lad to my right had a sky poker badge sewn into his shirt i thought oh dear and it proved as he was raising nearly every pot in any position i re-raised him a couple of time to try and stop him nicking my blinds,it worked when he folded but it didn't stop him raising the next hand, top player very aggro his name is Alves.

Spotted Tikay laughing and joking with other players he walked past this time i introduced myself wow he was actually looking for me i was speechless.

the 1st break came went out for a ciggie when Tikay came out with Jen mason he introduced her, i mean cmon, then he introduce me to Tommyd lambert and mattbates had abit of banter then as i was going back in a lad spotted me badge it was MAXALLY,Al you were great m8 putting my mind at ease.sat back down,pretty card dead tried to keep me stack won a couple of pots the another break this time Tikay grabs me and say i want you to meet a couple of his friends,this is Willie Tann and this is Neil Channing i nearly fell over had a small chat, neil thought i played for Stoke

then Tikay introduced me to Poshcole,spent some time with posh(steve) thoroughly decent guy moved tables had 30 bigs been card dead got to level 8 20 bigs shove time waiting for a spot 55 allin, call aq,queen on flop,out,i didn't,t mind, looking at the play it was so aggressive i didn't,t see one unraised pot pre flop and that was the difference from what used too.

Tikay,you sir were simply awesome made me feel like a king really made my day giving me encouragement at every opportunity,you really are Mr  Poker and the the whole scene wouldn't,t be the same without you,thank you with all my heartR Craig,what a man stood there all day thx bro,mrs stokefc enjoyed it too bonusHad a great Friday in Nottingham (from what i can remember)on the way home met f-ivanovich on the train bonus

thanks to sky poker and DTD for holding this event and for letting this mere mortal to have his day in the sun absolutely fantastic,Thanks for all the support on this thread


MAXALLY is a forum god

Sean"






I really appreciated you taking some time at the start to try & settle him down. I know you are getting a bit of heat, but you showed this lad great respect, & it meant a lot to him.

"One of the best days of my life", how about that?

The whole thread, for those interested, is here......

https://www.skypoker.com/secure/poker/sky_lobby?action=show_static&page=poker_community_forums&plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3a57795ac2-1793-4377-b4cf-e124b0f555f4Forum%3adf77f82c-151f-4bea-aae1-fb423dcae1faDiscussion%3ab2a85f30-ee28-4054-862f-6b5f9dac9df1&plckCurrentPage=0

[celtic]

Great post.

Not sure anyone should be introduced to willie, on their first trip to a casino though 😀

[arbboy]

That's an awesome story.  So glad he settled down once play got underway as when i shook his hand he was incredibly nervous just before the shuffle up and deal!  You can't buy advertising like that.  Imagine how many mates/work mates/guys down the pub he will tell that story to over the next year.