UK General Election 2015

[AdamM]

Foot was hard left? I don't think so. No need to change history.

He certainly was. very left wing. completely unelectable

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_longest_suicide_note_in_history

not to say he wasn't a good politician and a very fine orator

"If Jeremy Corbyn wins the Labour leadership in September, as the first public poll of the contest suggests he will, the party will experience the biggest lurch to the left since the days of Michael Foot in the 1980s.

Gone will be Labour's backing of austerity and in will come radical plans to renationalise the railways and utilities, the party would officially support nuclear disarmament, the reunification of Ireland, a radical shift in foreign policy and a radical redistribution of tax."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/what-the-labour-party-could-look-like-under-jeremy-corbyn-10406317.html

sounds good

[MintTrav]

Foot was hard left? I don't think so. No need to change history.

He certainly was. very left wing. completely unelectable

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_longest_suicide_note_in_history

not to say he wasn't a good politician and a very fine orator

"If Jeremy Corbyn wins the Labour leadership in September, as the first public poll of the contest suggests he will, the party will experience the biggest lurch to the left since the days of Michael Foot in the 1980s.

Gone will be Labour's backing of austerity and in will come radical plans to renationalise the railways and utilities, the party would officially support nuclear disarmament, the reunification of Ireland, a radical shift in foreign policy and a radical redistribution of tax."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/what-the-labour-party-could-look-like-under-jeremy-corbyn-10406317.html

Foot was no Bennite. He was the compromise candidate between Benn and Healey and kept the party together at a time when a Benn win would probably have led to a major split. He worked with Healey to defeat Benn.

"The moderate left (of which Foot was associated) was distinct from the Bennite Left".

"Foot spent his time between 1980 and 1982 fighting the hard left as much as the social democrats."

Also, the 1983 manifesto may have been terrible, but it had little to do with Foot.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/dr-andrew-crines/michael-foot-labour-leader_b_7847022.html

[TightEnd]

i think we are squabbling over nuance

he was not red robbo or benn but to the left of callaghan and healey

after 1983 they went to kinnock, left of centre and then to john smith, who probably would have got elected if it were not for his tragic early death and then to blair..that three moves in turn from the left towards the centre

the only one of the past 7 labour leaders who has won an election is blair, and yet the labour party seems to be lurching in the opposite direction out of intellectual beliefs rather than pragmatist politics

its stunning to watch

[neeko]

Labour seem to have forgotten that the purpose of being a political party is to get into govt. (although this success did the lib dems few favours).

Some in the Labour Party seem to think that the UK electorate just keep voting the wrong way, rather than realising that the voters are fairly predictable and if you policies or personalities are unpopular then you don't get elected.

[Longy]

Corbyn is still a 7/2 shot and 3rd fave....

[AndrewT]

Labour seem to have forgotten that the purpose of being a political party is to get into govt. (although this success did the lib dems few favours).

Some in the Labour Party seem to think that the UK electorate just keep voting the wrong way, rather than realising that the voters are fairly predictable and if you policies or personalities are unpopular then you don't get elected.

Interesting question, should a political party aim to get into government by persuading the electorate to change their way of thinking so it matches that of the party, or should it change its ideas so they match those of the majority of the voters?

Corbyn/the left would say the first, but Blairites gained success with the second but, in doing so, weren't really the Labour party any more.

[Jon MW]

Labour seem to have forgotten that the purpose of being a political party is to get into govt. (although this success did the lib dems few favours).

Some in the Labour Party seem to think that the UK electorate just keep voting the wrong way, rather than realising that the voters are fairly predictable and if you policies or personalities are unpopular then you don't get elected.

Interesting question, should a political party aim to get into government by persuading the electorate to change their way of thinking so it matches that of the party, or should it change its ideas so they match those of the majority of the voters?

Corbyn/the left would say the first, but Blairites gained success with the second but, in doing so, weren't really the Labour party any more.

The government is meant to represent the people - I think that should rule out the government persuading people how they should think shouldn't it?

[AndrewT]

If the UK population became massively racist, should Labour also become racist (in order to win an election) or willingly forgo the chance to win an election (give up on government) because they make a choice to be out of touch with the people and stick to their principles?

[TightEnd]

If the UK population became massively racist, should Labour also become racist (in order to win an election) or willingly forgo the chance to win an election (give up on government) because they make a choice to be out of touch with the people and stick to their principles?

apart from the extremities, one of which you mention, the gathering of one nation conservatism and blairite labour around the middle suggests pragmatism overcomes dogmatism

young idealists, right or left wing, might argue for more profound policies but the evidence in many western democracies is that as people get older they get more "conservative" with a small c, more concerned aobut their own situation and this has implications now that the baby boom era is hitting retirement and forms a bigger voting bloc than ever before

only when you hit big problems do you get the emrergence of something like Syriza in Greece, and even then arguably the no vbote in a referendum led to a worst outcome than otheriwse anyway

[david3103]

Labour seem to have forgotten that the purpose of being a political party is to get into govt. (although this success did the lib dems few favours).

Some in the Labour Party seem to think that the UK electorate just keep voting the wrong way, rather than realising that the voters are fairly predictable and if you policies or personalities are unpopular then you don't get elected.

Interesting question, should a political party aim to get into government by persuading the electorate to change their way of thinking so it matches that of the party, or should it change its ideas so they match those of the majority of the voters?

Corbyn/the left would say the first, but Blairites gained success with the second but, in doing so, weren't really the Labour party any more.

The government is meant to represent the people - I think that should rule out the government persuading people how they should think shouldn't it?

If the government, and by logical extension opposition parties, shouldn't persuade people how to think, who should?
Rupert Murdoch?
The BBC?
Your Mum and Dad?
The Pope/Archbishop of Canterbury/Chief Rabbi?
The Queen?

Oh, and if the Government is to represent 'the people' how is it supposed to choose which people on issues where public opinion is polarised? Think immigration, the death penalty, EU membership, Trident.

[RickBFA]

It appears to me that the Labour leadership position is a poisoned chalice. None of them are charismatic leaders, whilst Corbyn is causing a few waves, it seems clear Burnham will win.

Cant see him (or anyone else currently) turning around their party differences or electoral position by the next election.

The Tories will get re-elected, Burnham will be gone and along will come Chuka Umunna. He was the best hope for them but was smart enough to let some other mug take the pain for now.

Just my view.

[ripple11]

Jezza as low as 4/9 now

Fun times ahead

[DungBeetle]

Will be interesting times if Corbyn gets in.  At least we'll have some proper political discussions.

[TightEnd]

Labour supporters appear to be far more interested in sending the party to the left than actually being electable

whats the point of being in opposition with all sorts of "old labour" policies that can never win you a general election unless there is an enormous exogenous shock that affects the current government?

i don't get it.

[DaveShoelace]

Labour supporters appear to be far more interested in sending the party to the left than actually being electable

whats the point of being in opposition with all sorts of "old labour" policies that can never win you a general election unless there is an enormous exogenous shock that affects the current government?

i don't get it.

Virtue Signalling.

Some people would rather show themselves to be caring liberals by backing Corybn than actually have the party in power. It's the same mentality that saw a lot of Lib Dems immediately turn on Nick Clegg for forming the Coalition, even though in theory it should have been in their interests.

Guess it's the opposite of the 'shy Tory' thing.