UK General Election 2015

[mulhuzz]

There are plenty of factory jobs in Nottingham around the Lenton/Queens drive industrial estate areas mate, I know a few people who work there and there are nearly always jobs going and would get min 4 days work a week. Some would simply rather stay on benefits rather than work, I don't give a shit about the -ev aspect of it really, take the job or lose the benefits, everyone needs to contribute rather than take.

While I don't disagree with you, it does present an interesting scenario where the poorest are expected to set aside their own best interests and act with compassion towards those higher in the social order.

I'm not sure that has really 'worked out' in human history

In the short term it might be -ev to take a job rather than stay on benefits - but in the long term it will only stay -ev if you basically make no effort and never advance.

So it requires them to act in their own self interest, but to be able to see past the next year or two when doing so.

agree. also I would say that short term thinking is the only one that comes easily when you're living often hand to mouth. plans are easier once you have some stability.
The state can encourage them to take that step by making it possible for people to take short term jobs without impact on their immediate financial situation. Make it neutral in EV terms, rather than negative. Deduct the income from benefits by all means but stop assuming that because someone earnt £200 last week they are going to earn the same or more next week.

The benefit system is based on a model that assumes stable employment, that's inappropriate now. Have Zero Hours Contracts if you must, but reflect their use in a system that uses up to date information to make work worthwhile. PAYE info is updated live these days, it shouldn't be that hard to do.

A very sensible suggestion imo. 

[Kmac84]

Why would anyone take a job that left them worse off?

I can understand betterment and improving your own life but at what cost?

People are disenchanted.  Employers should pay a fair wage, if you can't pay that cut the volume of work you try and go through.   I'd do away with tax credits/working tax credits force employers into paying a living wage and allow for tax breaks to the companies. 

I don't want to punish wealth creators, even although I am a "lefty" I am all for advancement, but not at any cost.   

I'd introduce a salary cap as well and look at the swiss model were the chief exec can't earn X more than the guy at the bottom.   

What we have just now doesn't work so why not try something differently.  Heck I wouldn't mind paying more tax/NI if it was to the betterment of the many and not the few.  I also expect decent services for what I pay in.   

[TightEnd]

For Jan-Mar 2015 wages including bonuses up 1.9% on a year earlier. Wages excl bonuses up 2.2% http://ow.ly/MT3hM 

running much above CPI in the last year. real wage growth

office of national statistics data published today

Click to see full-size image.

[TightEnd]

It’s Labour’s loss if they don’t take Ukip voters seriously http://bit.ly/1EDe6Z8  by Rod Liddle

[George2Loose]

As someone who was recently made redundant from a team manager role are u suggesting I should take a cleaners job rather then claim benefit (having paid tax and NI for 14 years) whilst I find a suitable role?

[Jon MW]

As someone who was recently made redundant from a team manager role are u suggesting I should take a cleaners job rather then claim benefit (having paid tax and NI for 14 years) whilst I find a suitable role?

Are you saying that if you couldn't get a job as a team manager again you'd be happy to spend the rest of your life on benefit?

[Woodsey]

As someone who was recently made redundant from a team manager role are u suggesting I should take a cleaners job rather then claim benefit (having paid tax and NI for 14 years) whilst I find a suitable role?

I would personally, I'm not too good for a min wage job to earn my own money. I've done shit min wage jobs before so no sweat to me.

[DungBeetle]

As someone who was recently made redundant from a team manager role are u suggesting I should take a cleaners job rather then claim benefit (having paid tax and NI for 14 years) whilst I find a suitable role?

Are you saying that if you couldn't get a job as a team manager again you'd be happy to spend the rest of your life on benefit?

There has to be a period where someone can look for a role to suit their skills and experience without the distraction of a job which they are overqualified for?

[Woodsey]

As someone who was recently made redundant from a team manager role are u suggesting I should take a cleaners job rather then claim benefit (having paid tax and NI for 14 years) whilst I find a suitable role?

Are you saying that if you couldn't get a job as a team manager again you'd be happy to spend the rest of your life on benefit?

There has to be a period where someone can look for a role to suit their skills and experience without the distraction of a job which they are overqualified for?

Don't really disagree with that for a period of time, say 6/12 months or whatever. But there should come a time when you have to  swallow your pride and just take what's on offer out there or lose the benefits. As far as I'm concerned benefits are for people who really cant get work rather than those who are picky about the job they want. You can always keep looking for a job you would prefer to do once you are at least doing some work and earning again.

[BorntoBubble]

Why would anyone take a job that left them worse off?

I can understand betterment and improving your own life but at what cost?

People are disenchanted.  Employers should pay a fair wage, if you can't pay that cut the volume of work you try and go through.   I'd do away with tax credits/working tax credits force employers into paying a living wage and allow for tax breaks to the companies. 

I don't want to punish wealth creators, even although I am a "lefty" I am all for advancement, but not at any cost.   

I'd introduce a salary cap as well and look at the swiss model were the chief exec can't earn X more than the guy at the bottom.   

What we have just now doesn't work so why not try something differently.  Heck I wouldn't mind paying more tax/NI if it was to the betterment of the many and not the few.  I also expect decent services for what I pay in.   

When leaving uni I had the choice between earning £10,000 now with potential to earn £1xx,000 by the time im in my early 30s. Or option 2 was £25,000 now with the potential to be somewhere between 50-70k by my early 30s.

Numbers edited*

This is the same theory and I chose option 1, sacrificing things now to improve my life later on. I have friends that have grafted their bollocks off from a young age and are starting to see rewards now. They could have took the "easy" option and took dole money (which in most cases would let them be better off when they were 16/17/18) but they chose to better themselves. If people don't take a leap of faith every once in a while, work hard, get off government support then well hard luck.

Government support should be there for people who really need it, not for the bone idol that wont work because they are "too good to do this" "too qualified to do that" etc. I dont have sympathy for anyone who chooses not to work because they will be worse of in the short term.

[BorntoBubble]

As someone who was recently made redundant from a team manager role are u suggesting I should take a cleaners job rather then claim benefit (having paid tax and NI for 14 years) whilst I find a suitable role?

Are you saying that if you couldn't get a job as a team manager again you'd be happy to spend the rest of your life on benefit?

There has to be a period where someone can look for a role to suit their skills and experience without the distraction of a job which they are overqualified for?

Don't really disagree with that for a period of time, say 6/12 months or whatever. But there should come a time when you have to  swallow your pride and just take what's on offer out there or lose the benefits. As far as I'm concerned benefits are for people who really cant get work rather than those who are picky about the job they want. You can always keep looking for a job you would prefer to do once you are at least doing some work and earning again.

Not sure about your circumstances George but in a lot of cases you will have an amount of money for being made redudant, if this is 6 weeks wages for example I would work my bollocks off in them 6 weeks to get a job or at least a few interviews lined up. When im getting to the 4 week mark if its between going on the dole and going on minimum wage I know where I am going. You can still work and search for work it just requires motivation, get a job in an evening and search for jobs during the day.

In most situations people don't utilise their time in the best way and that's why they struggle to find more work.

You speak to people leaving uni now and the one's that are doing well are the one's who have had the attitude that they will do anything while they search/apply/get their ideal job.

[George2Loose]

As someone who was recently made redundant from a team manager role are u suggesting I should take a cleaners job rather then claim benefit (having paid tax and NI for 14 years) whilst I find a suitable role?

I would personally, I'm not too good for a min wage job to earn my own money. I've done shit min wage jobs before so no sweat to me.

I'm not suggesting I'm too good for anything. I guess part of me felt entitled to claim benefit whilst I found work which suited my skill set and supported my family.

The point I'm trying to illustrate is not everything is black and white as is sometimes intimated on here.

[Woodsey]

As someone who was recently made redundant from a team manager role are u suggesting I should take a cleaners job rather then claim benefit (having paid tax and NI for 14 years) whilst I find a suitable role?

I would personally, I'm not too good for a min wage job to earn my own money. I've done shit min wage jobs before so no sweat to me.

I'm not suggesting I'm too good for anything. I guess part of me felt entitled to claim benefit whilst I found work which suited my skill set and supported my family.

The point I'm trying to illustrate is not everything is black and white as is sometimes intimated on here.

I wasn't of course suggesting that just in case you took it that way, I was just referring to myself.

[BorntoBubble]

As someone who was recently made redundant from a team manager role are u suggesting I should take a cleaners job rather then claim benefit (having paid tax and NI for 14 years) whilst I find a suitable role?

I would personally, I'm not too good for a min wage job to earn my own money. I've done shit min wage jobs before so no sweat to me.

I'm not suggesting I'm too good for anything. I guess part of me felt entitled to claim benefit whilst I found work which suited my skill set and supported my family.

The point I'm trying to illustrate is not everything is black and white as is sometimes intimated on here.

I wasn't of course suggesting that just in case you took it that way, I was just referring to myself.

How much is dole pay now is it £50-£60 a week?

[arbboy]

Why would anyone take a job that left them worse off?

I can understand betterment and improving your own life but at what cost?

People are disenchanted.  Employers should pay a fair wage, if you can't pay that cut the volume of work you try and go through.   I'd do away with tax credits/working tax credits force employers into paying a living wage and allow for tax breaks to the companies.  

I don't want to punish wealth creators, even although I am a "lefty" I am all for advancement, but not at any cost.  

I'd introduce a salary cap as well and look at the swiss model were the chief exec can't earn X more than the guy at the bottom.  

What we have just now doesn't work so why not try something differently.  Heck I wouldn't mind paying more tax/NI if it was to the betterment of the many and not the few.  I also expect decent services for what I pay in.  

For a long term investment in their future is one reason.  I took a pay cut from £42k a year in a job for life type career to leave Chartered Accountancy to join bet365 on £22k a year (a then internet start up company with no job security in the slightest) in September 2001 because i knew longer term i would enjoy the job/career more and get further up the career ladder because i would be more motivated further along the line.  There are numerous reasons why you can/should take a pay cut.  If you keep saying 'i am above this job' there becomes a point where you are unemployable because you have a track record of just refusing work and employers think you are work shy.

There is far more to be gained from work than simply earning a wage if you take the short term googles off and see the bigger picture and life style choice/controlling your own career path potentially.  Sometimes it is worth making short term sacrifices for the benefit of yourself and the countries finances for the long term gain for yourself and the country.  Just like people who choose to jack in working for no wage to set up businesses and probably don't see a wage for 3 years whilst building the business up.

I would probably be better off financially working as a trading director for an online betting firm but would i want the hassle of reporting daily to a team of yes men and dealing with dozens of loltraders telling me bullshit excuses why they have done the firms money again?  not really so i choose a 'lower' totally insecure wage to live the lifestyle i choose.