Ched Evans

[Jon MW]

Charlie Webster currently on Newsnight talking about the case and her resignation as a Sheff Utd patron.  Very impressive individual and hugely convincing in her arguments imo.

I agree, she was excellent.

The rehabilitation argument the PFA is using is completely spurious.

How can you be rehabilitated if you don't accept what you've done is wrong?

Seems to me people are using Sheff Utd as a scapegoat because they don't agree with the country's sentencing for the crime.  Or people don't think he should have been released if he didn't admit that he committed the crime and show remorse.  It's politicians/judiciary/parole boards that people need to complain to.

As things stand, he has served his punishment as dictated by society, so we should let the guy have a job of an employer is willing to employ him. 

It's a reasonable argument

but

the precedent has been set before by other football clubs of players being sacked for a variety of crimes such as dangerous driving and assault; it sets a worrying precedent if they can be sacked for assaulting someone but not for raping them (for example).

[DaveShoelace]

The fact that the player will be booed should have zero impact on our views.  Shall we also ban Ashley Cole as well because opposition fans hate him?  Maybe we can ban panto villians as well as we don't want theatre unrest.

Believe me, the booing Ashley Cole, John Terry, Emmanuel Adebayor or Sol Campbell have ever got is going to be child's play to the abuse Evans will get,

I grant you a great deal of it will be from people who have no opinion on his crime or whether he should play or not. They will just be trying to cause trouble.

And they will succeed.

I don't even want to think what a derby match would be like (thankfully currently not an issue).

[The Camel]

Just out of interest, would the people who are defending Evans right to work feel the same if a player was convicted of downloading child pornography?

Chris Langham has hardly worked since his conviction.

[DaveShoelace]

Just out of interest, would the people who are defending Evans right to work feel the same if a player was convicted of downloading child pornography?

Chris Langham has hardly worked since his conviction.

It's pretty much the same ball park, but child pornography would be a more angry response.

With celebrity rape cases, there is something of a stigma on the victims with some people. 'Doing it for the money' and 'asking for it' and other horrible accusations are made by some small but vocal corners.

[horseplayer]

I went to the third game Luke McCormick played after he killed two children. A murmur no more...

Charlie Webster the same lady that was very happy to have a picture, excited in fact to have a selfie with Mike Tyson a few years ago?

[The Camel]

I went to the third game Luke McCormick played after he killed two children. A murmur no more...

Charlie Webster the same lady that was very happy to have a picture, excited in fact to have a selfie with Mike Tyson a few years ago?

As I said earlier in the thread there is a huge difference between Evans and McCormick.

McCormick was an idiot, recklessly flaunting the law for drink driving. He deserved his punishment.

Fom everything I've seen he could not have shown more contrition and I think he will regret what happened for the rest of his life.

But when all is said and done, it was an accident.

You don't rape someone by accident. And Evans is still claiming he is an innocent man.

[The Camel]

If Evans had gone about this differently, he could have become a spokesperson against rape.

Explaining to young men why what he did was wrong and trying to teach them about the sanctity of consent.

That really would have been rehabilitation.

[DungBeetle]

Just out of interest, would the people who are defending Evans right to work feel the same if a player was convicted of downloading child pornography?

Chris Langham has hardly worked since his conviction.

He has served his punishment as dictated by our society.  At that point it's not really your business whether he gets employed or not - that is for the employer (Sheff Utd) to decide whether the pros of hiring a certain player are outweighed or otherwise by having a convicted rapist on the books.  It would be the same argument for child pornography/murder whatever (and some crimes carry a bigger stigma than others).

Now whether the punishment dictated by our society for each crime is sufficient is a different argument and is irrelevant to whether he should be able to work or not.

[DungBeetle]

I went to the third game Luke McCormick played after he killed two children. A murmur no more...

Charlie Webster the same lady that was very happy to have a picture, excited in fact to have a selfie with Mike Tyson a few years ago?

As I said earlier in the thread there is a huge difference between Evans and McCormick.

McCormick was an idiot, recklessly flaunting the law for drink driving. He deserved his punishment.

Fom everything I've seen he could not have shown more contrition and I think he will regret what happened for the rest of his life.

But when all is said and done, it was an accident.

You don't rape someone by accident. And Evans is still claiming he is an innocent man.

We've been here before.  You don't get into a car after boozing all day by accident.

[The Camel]

Just out of interest, would the people who are defending Evans right to work feel the same if a player was convicted of downloading child pornography?

Chris Langham has hardly worked since his conviction.

He has served his punishment as dictated by our society.  At that point it's not really your business whether he gets employed or not - that is for the employer (Sheff Utd) to decide whether the pros of hiring a certain player are outweighed or otherwise by having a convicted rapist on the books.  It would be the same argument for child pornography/murder whatever (and some crimes carry a bigger stigma than others).

Now whether the punishment dictated by our society for each crime is sufficient is a different argument and is irrelevant to whether he should be able to work or not.

I guess it's a pointless argument.

I could not stomach a paedo playing football for QPR when children are in the crowd cheering him on.

The same goes for a rapist when 20%+ of the audience are women.

I'm not suggesting he should never work again, just he shouldn't be allowed to work in a public position.

[Doobs]

I went to the third game Luke McCormick played after he killed two children. A murmur no more...

Charlie Webster the same lady that was very happy to have a picture, excited in fact to have a selfie with Mike Tyson a few years ago?

I saw her previously say that she made a mistake there.   She shouldn't have a view because she made a small mistake in the past?  I don't see this on a par with what Ched did and not sure why people find it relevant.

I heard Nigel Clough saying that they wanted to concentrate on the 4 games in 10 days yesterday.  It struck me that the 4 games in 10 days was something you should have considered before taking Ched Evans back in training.

I do think he really needs to resolve this issue before coming back into football.   I think he should concentrate on the outstanding appeal first.  If he is found innocent, people will have to accept that and move on, if he is found guilty again he has to accept that and show a bit more contrition.  Where we are seems very unsatisfactory for all parties.  

[The Camel]

I went to the third game Luke McCormick played after he killed two children. A murmur no more...

Charlie Webster the same lady that was very happy to have a picture, excited in fact to have a selfie with Mike Tyson a few years ago?

As I said earlier in the thread there is a huge difference between Evans and McCormick.

McCormick was an idiot, recklessly flaunting the law for drink driving. He deserved his punishment.

Fom everything I've seen he could not have shown more contrition and I think he will regret what happened for the rest of his life.

But when all is said and done, it was an accident.

You don't rape someone by accident. And Evans is still claiming he is an innocent man.

We've been here before.  You don't get into a car after boozing all day by accident.

You are just being pedantic now, you know exactly what I mean.

[The Camel]

I went to the third game Luke McCormick played after he killed two children. A murmur no more...

Charlie Webster the same lady that was very happy to have a picture, excited in fact to have a selfie with Mike Tyson a few years ago?

I saw her previously say that she made a mistake there.   She shouldn't have a view because she made a small mistake in the past?  I don't see this on a par with what Ched did and not sure why people find it relevant.

I heard Nigel Clough saying that they wanted to concentrate on the 4 games in 10 days yesterday.  It struck me that the 4 games in 10 days was something you should have considered before taking Ched Evans back in training.

I do think he really needs to resolve this issue before coming back into football.   I think he should concentrate on the outstanding appeal first.  If he is found innocent, people will have to accept that and move on, if he is found guilty again he has to accept that and show a bit more contrition.  Where we are seems very unsatisfactory for all parties.  

This is an excellent post.

I think if he had held his hands up and admitted his crime and started working towards redeeming himself the reaction of critics would be a great deal different.

The behaviour of some of his supporters towards the victim has been appalling.

[DungBeetle]

We talked about this weeks ago Camel.  We agreed it's possible (likely?) that Evans at the time thought he had consent from the victim.  Subsequently the court found that she was incapable of giving consent in the situation so he was guilty of rape.

Evans in his footballer arrogance thinks he has consent to have sex with a girl.  He didn't and the result is that a girl was raped.
McCormick thinks he can drive home drunk without incident.  He couldn't and the result is that two children are dead.

It will vary person to person, but personally given the situations I think McCormick's crime is worse (as reflected in his sentence).  Your passing off of McCormick's crime as a tragic accident troubles me

[DungBeetle]

I agree with you Camel though that the actions/behaviour of the Ched Evans support group towards the victim are dreadful.