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WSOP 2015: every event, every stat.
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Topic: WSOP 2015: every event, every stat. (Read 116145 times)
The Camel
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 17523
Under my tree, being a troll.
Re: WSOP 2015: every event, every stat.
«
Reply #135 on:
June 01, 2015, 09:11:32 PM »
Quote from: Doobs on June 01, 2015, 04:42:59 PM
Flatter is inheriently fairer
Says who?
Poker tournaments are about winning all the chips. The winner should get much, much more than 6%.
Logged
Congratulations to the 2012 League Champion - Stapleton Atheists
"Keith The Camel, a true champion!" - Brent Horner 30th December 2012
"I dont think you're a wanker Keith" David Nicholson 4th March 2013
Doobs
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 16591
Re: WSOP 2015: every event, every stat.
«
Reply #136 on:
June 01, 2015, 09:34:40 PM »
Quote from: The Camel on June 01, 2015, 09:11:32 PM
Quote from: Doobs on June 01, 2015, 04:42:59 PM
Flatter is inheriently fairer
Says who?
Poker tournaments are about winning all the chips. The winner should get much, much more than 6%.
So they should make it winner takes all then? Given they haven't caught on, then nobody wants that.
Two people play equally well, flip with 19 left, one gets 4k, the other ends up with 200k in SCOOP. A lot of time the end of tournaments is a lot of variance between people who are similarly skilled. Certainly on stars anyway. People overrate themselves so will say they want the big prize, when the vast majority should want flatter and lower variance. It really should be just the elite few with the big edges who want the skewed prizes.
The rest are turkeys voting for christmas.
Logged
Most of the bets placed so far seem more like hopeful punts rather than value spots
The Camel
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 17523
Under my tree, being a troll.
Re: WSOP 2015: every event, every stat.
«
Reply #137 on:
June 01, 2015, 09:53:19 PM »
Quote from: Doobs on June 01, 2015, 09:34:40 PM
Quote from: The Camel on June 01, 2015, 09:11:32 PM
Quote from: Doobs on June 01, 2015, 04:42:59 PM
Flatter is inheriently fairer
Says who?
Poker tournaments are about winning all the chips. The winner should get much, much more than 6%.
So they should make it winner takes all then? Given they haven't caught on, then nobody wants that.
Two people play equally well, flip with 19 left, one gets 4k, the other ends up with 200k in SCOOP. A lot of time the end of tournaments is a lot of variance between people who are similarly skilled. Certainly on stars anyway. People overrate themselves so will say they want the big prize, when the vast majority should want flatter and lower variance. It really should be just the elite few with the big edges who want the skewed prizes.
The rest are turkeys voting for christmas.
All that doesn't say why flatter is fairer.
Flatter is better for nits, skewed is better for good players.
Everyone should aspire to be the best player they can be.
Logged
Congratulations to the 2012 League Champion - Stapleton Atheists
"Keith The Camel, a true champion!" - Brent Horner 30th December 2012
"I dont think you're a wanker Keith" David Nicholson 4th March 2013
Doobs
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 16591
Re: WSOP 2015: every event, every stat.
«
Reply #138 on:
June 01, 2015, 10:35:38 PM »
Quote from: The Camel on June 01, 2015, 09:53:19 PM
Quote from: Doobs on June 01, 2015, 09:34:40 PM
Quote from: The Camel on June 01, 2015, 09:11:32 PM
Quote from: Doobs on June 01, 2015, 04:42:59 PM
Flatter is inheriently fairer
Says who?
Poker tournaments are about winning all the chips. The winner should get much, much more than 6%.
So they should make it winner takes all then? Given they haven't caught on, then nobody wants that.
Two people play equally well, flip with 19 left, one gets 4k, the other ends up with 200k in SCOOP. A lot of time the end of tournaments is a lot of variance between people who are similarly skilled. Certainly on stars anyway. People overrate themselves so will say they want the big prize, when the vast majority should want flatter and lower variance. It really should be just the elite few with the big edges who want the skewed prizes.
The rest are turkeys voting for christmas.
All that doesn't say why flatter is fairer.
Flatter is better for nits, skewed is better for good players.
Everyone should aspire to be the best player they can be.
You should base your decisions on who you are right now, not on who you'd like to be, or who you could be if you did 2000 hours work on your game.
Those who are going to average 50% in MTTs with big entry costs long run are a very small proportion of total players. Most are going to be sat between -30% and +20%. I guess most here will be better than average, but that doesn't mean their results in really big field MTTs are not going to be overwhlemed by variance. Variance is the main difference between a top 3 and top 50 finish. Nobody is going to play enough 22k entry tournaments to change that.
Even amongst the elite MTT players, variance is such a big factor that many end up getting staked. If you are merely good, the big skew in normal payouts in large field MTTs is never going to be in your interest. It isn't just the reward that matters, it is the risk you need to take to get that reward. Increasing the volatility without increasing your expected reward noticeably just can't be good for you. This isn't anything to do with the difference between nits and good players, it is about an understanding of distributions.
Logged
Most of the bets placed so far seem more like hopeful punts rather than value spots
The Camel
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 17523
Under my tree, being a troll.
Re: WSOP 2015: every event, every stat.
«
Reply #139 on:
June 01, 2015, 11:28:57 PM »
Quote from: Doobs on June 01, 2015, 10:35:38 PM
Quote from: The Camel on June 01, 2015, 09:53:19 PM
Quote from: Doobs on June 01, 2015, 09:34:40 PM
Quote from: The Camel on June 01, 2015, 09:11:32 PM
Quote from: Doobs on June 01, 2015, 04:42:59 PM
Flatter is inheriently fairer
Says who?
Poker tournaments are about winning all the chips. The winner should get much, much more than 6%.
So they should make it winner takes all then? Given they haven't caught on, then nobody wants that.
Two people play equally well, flip with 19 left, one gets 4k, the other ends up with 200k in SCOOP. A lot of time the end of tournaments is a lot of variance between people who are similarly skilled. Certainly on stars anyway. People overrate themselves so will say they want the big prize, when the vast majority should want flatter and lower variance. It really should be just the elite few with the big edges who want the skewed prizes.
The rest are turkeys voting for christmas.
All that doesn't say why flatter is fairer.
Flatter is better for nits, skewed is better for good players.
Everyone should aspire to be the best player they can be.
You should base your decisions on who you are right now, not on who you'd like to be, or who you could be if you did 2000 hours work on your game.
Those who are going to average 50% in MTTs with big entry costs long run are a very small proportion of total players. Most are going to be sat between -30% and +20%. I guess most here will be better than average, but that doesn't mean their results in really big field MTTs are not going to be overwhlemed by variance. Variance is the main difference between a top 3 and top 50 finish. Nobody is going to play enough 22k entry tournaments to change that.
Even amongst the elite MTT players, variance is such a big factor that many end up getting staked. If you are merely good, the big skew in normal payouts in large field MTTs is never going to be in your interest. It isn't just the reward that matters, it is the risk you need to take to get that reward. Increasing the volatility without increasing your expected reward noticeably just can't be good for you. This isn't anything to do with the difference between nits and good players, it is about an understanding of distributions.
You have this annoying habit of posting your opinions and portraying them as facts.
If you asked all 22,000 players what % of the prizepool should go to the winner, I doubt if more than one in twenty would answer 6% or less.
People like shooting for the jackpot, that's why so many people play the lottery. Why so many have a crack at Scoop 6 etc etc
We don't play events like this to make a 50% ROI. We play to get the lot.
10% for the winner is a pretty damn flat structure IMO.
Logged
Congratulations to the 2012 League Champion - Stapleton Atheists
"Keith The Camel, a true champion!" - Brent Horner 30th December 2012
"I dont think you're a wanker Keith" David Nicholson 4th March 2013
Doobs
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 16591
Re: WSOP 2015: every event, every stat.
«
Reply #140 on:
June 02, 2015, 12:01:54 AM »
Quote from: The Camel on June 01, 2015, 11:28:57 PM
Quote from: Doobs on June 01, 2015, 10:35:38 PM
Quote from: The Camel on June 01, 2015, 09:53:19 PM
Quote from: Doobs on June 01, 2015, 09:34:40 PM
Quote from: The Camel on June 01, 2015, 09:11:32 PM
Quote from: Doobs on June 01, 2015, 04:42:59 PM
Flatter is inheriently fairer
Says who?
Poker tournaments are about winning all the chips. The winner should get much, much more than 6%.
So they should make it winner takes all then? Given they haven't caught on, then nobody wants that.
Two people play equally well, flip with 19 left, one gets 4k, the other ends up with 200k in SCOOP. A lot of time the end of tournaments is a lot of variance between people who are similarly skilled. Certainly on stars anyway. People overrate themselves so will say they want the big prize, when the vast majority should want flatter and lower variance. It really should be just the elite few with the big edges who want the skewed prizes.
The rest are turkeys voting for christmas.
All that doesn't say why flatter is fairer.
Flatter is better for nits, skewed is better for good players.
Everyone should aspire to be the best player they can be.
You should base your decisions on who you are right now, not on who you'd like to be, or who you could be if you did 2000 hours work on your game.
Those who are going to average 50% in MTTs with big entry costs long run are a very small proportion of total players. Most are going to be sat between -30% and +20%. I guess most here will be better than average, but that doesn't mean their results in really big field MTTs are not going to be overwhlemed by variance. Variance is the main difference between a top 3 and top 50 finish. Nobody is going to play enough 22k entry tournaments to change that.
Even amongst the elite MTT players, variance is such a big factor that many end up getting staked. If you are merely good, the big skew in normal payouts in large field MTTs is never going to be in your interest. It isn't just the reward that matters, it is the risk you need to take to get that reward. Increasing the volatility without increasing your expected reward noticeably just can't be good for you. This isn't anything to do with the difference between nits and good players, it is about an understanding of distributions.
You have this annoying habit of posting your opinions and portraying them as facts.
If you asked all 22,000 players what % of the prizepool should go to the winner, I doubt if more than one in twenty would answer 6% or less.
People like shooting for the jackpot, that's why so many people play the lottery. Why so many have a crack at Scoop 6 etc etc
We don't play events like this to make a 50% ROI. We play to get the lot.
10% for the winner is a pretty damn flat structure IMO.
Just because people like doing something doesn't mean it is in their interest to do so.
If you didn't just pull a small part of my post out and post off the back of that, I said right at the beginning that I didn't really get why they didn't pay a million for first. I think it is good marketing to pay the million, I know it is better for most of the players in the tournament that they don't.
If you don't believe it, that is absolutely fine by me. The more the merrier I say.
Good night
Logged
Most of the bets placed so far seem more like hopeful punts rather than value spots
rfgqqabc
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 5483
Re: WSOP 2015: every event, every stat.
«
Reply #141 on:
June 02, 2015, 12:24:56 AM »
Flatter structures do make a bit more sense, I do feel for the WSOP who have to cope with players that want more people paid and more money up top. I liked the payouts, they seemed pretty reasonable. At the same time, poker tournaments have never really made mathematical sense, at some point someone who had 20x starting and played well can receive 0, and someone else can scrape into the money and receive 1.x their buyin. Its never going to be perfect and as long as it is somewhat logical and publicised then I don't see the big deal. When you can post something on twitter and have the world give its opinion on it, it would seem fairly wise to do so instead of realising what a powerful tool twitter is just afterwards.
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[21:05:17] Andrew W: you wasted a non spelling mistakepost?
[21:11:08] Patrick Leonard: oll
cambridgealex
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: 14876
#lovethegame
Re: WSOP 2015: every event, every stat.
«
Reply #142 on:
June 02, 2015, 12:51:34 AM »
Doobs wins thread
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Poker goals:
[ ] 7 figure score
[X] 8 figure score
TightEnd
Administrator
Hero Member
Offline
Posts: I am a geek!!
Re: WSOP 2015: every event, every stat.
«
Reply #143 on:
June 02, 2015, 10:18:59 AM »
There are currently 44 left in the Colossus
no brits left as far as i can see, chip counts at
http://www.wsop.com/tournaments/chipcounts.asp?grid=1136&tid=14205
brit finishers
66th laura cerisola
84th kerryjane craigie
184th simon deadman
220th mohammed suhail
310th kevin o'leary
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My eyes are open wide
By the way,I made it through the day
I watch the world outside
By the way, I'm leaving out today
TightEnd
Administrator
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Posts: I am a geek!!
Re: WSOP 2015: every event, every stat.
«
Reply #144 on:
June 02, 2015, 10:20:25 AM »
Event #6: $1,000 Hyper Hold'em
Minnesota Poker Pro John Reading Goes Hyper, Wins First WSOP Gold Bracelet, and Pockets a Quarter Million
Fast-Structured Turbo Wraps Up in Lightning-Fast Time
http://www.wsop.com/tournaments/updates.asp?grid=1136&tid=14206
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My eyes are open wide
By the way,I made it through the day
I watch the world outside
By the way, I'm leaving out today
TightEnd
Administrator
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Re: WSOP 2015: every event, every stat.
«
Reply #145 on:
June 02, 2015, 10:21:58 AM »
Event #7: $10,000 Limit 2-7 Triple Draw Lowball Championship
13 of 109 left
phil galfond, calvin anderson, tuan le, bruno fitoussi amongst those left
counts at
http://www.wsop.com/tournaments/chipcounts.asp?grid=1136&tid=14207
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My eyes are open wide
By the way,I made it through the day
I watch the world outside
By the way, I'm leaving out today
TightEnd
Administrator
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Re: WSOP 2015: every event, every stat.
«
Reply #146 on:
June 02, 2015, 10:23:30 AM »
Event #8: $1,500 Pot-Limit Hold'em
108 of 639 remain currently
in those 108
will mitchell
chris moorman
andrew teng
aaron virchis
survive for the uk
chip counts at
http://www.wsop.com/tournaments/chipcounts.asp
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My eyes are open wide
By the way,I made it through the day
I watch the world outside
By the way, I'm leaving out today
TightEnd
Administrator
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Re: WSOP 2015: every event, every stat.
«
Reply #147 on:
June 02, 2015, 10:25:34 AM »
168 entered Event #9: $1,500 Razz
168 remain, it says, but in fact its 70 or so
a who's who of mixed game names in this
can only see one uk entrant, adam owen from folkestone
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My eyes are open wide
By the way,I made it through the day
I watch the world outside
By the way, I'm leaving out today
TightEnd
Administrator
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Re: WSOP 2015: every event, every stat.
«
Reply #148 on:
June 02, 2015, 10:28:12 AM »
Daily Deepstacks results can be found here.
http://wsop.com/n/4tv
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By the way,I made it through the day
I watch the world outside
By the way, I'm leaving out today
TightEnd
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Re: WSOP 2015: every event, every stat.
«
Reply #149 on:
June 02, 2015, 10:29:10 AM »
i don't spot these every day, but its tattytats so when i see them i will post them
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My eyes are open wide
By the way,I made it through the day
I watch the world outside
By the way, I'm leaving out today
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