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Poll
Question: How will you vote on December 12th 2019
Conservative - 19 (33.9%)
Labour - 12 (21.4%)
SNP - 2 (3.6%)
Lib Dem - 8 (14.3%)
Brexit - 1 (1.8%)
Green - 6 (10.7%)
Other - 2 (3.6%)
Spoil - 0 (0%)
Not voting - 6 (10.7%)
Total Voters: 55

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Author Topic: The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged  (Read 1711539 times)
kukushkin88
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« Reply #10230 on: June 18, 2017, 03:49:58 PM »

If MP's were really in it for the money they would be deluded.

Any reasonably intelligent person, especially in the South East can earn 2/3/4/5 times an MP.


MP salary is 3x average UK salary, before any expenses. That probably makes it 5 times avg salary.

I'm in London and am reasonably intelligent. Please tell me how to easily make 2-5x what they earn. I could do with it Smiley

We are looking for the best quality people to make our laws and run our country.

If you were, say a Director of a FTSE100 company, what would your salary be? Or a senior civil servant?

That wouldn't be a bad comparison, off the top of my head.

Just because their current salary is 3 times the UK average is an irrelevant comparison.

We are not paying them the going rate for their responsibilities in the current market and we end up with clowns doing the job.



There is plenty of sense in what you say but it would be even better if the best and most suitable people to run the country weren't morivated primarily by money.
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RickBFA
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« Reply #10231 on: June 18, 2017, 03:58:06 PM »

If MP's were really in it for the money they would be deluded.

Any reasonably intelligent person, especially in the South East can earn 2/3/4/5 times an MP.


MP salary is 3x average UK salary, before any expenses. That probably makes it 5 times avg salary.

I'm in London and am reasonably intelligent. Please tell me how to easily make 2-5x what they earn. I could do with it Smiley

We are looking for the best quality people to make our laws and run our country.

If you were, say a Director of a FTSE100 company, what would your salary be? Or a senior civil servant?

That wouldn't be a bad comparison, off the top of my head.

Just because their current salary is 3 times the UK average is an irrelevant comparison.

We are not paying them the going rate for their responsibilities in the current market and we end up with clowns doing the job.



There is plenty of sense in what you say but it would be even better if the best and most suitable people to run the country weren't morivated primarily by money.

You're right but that just isn't really life unfortunately.

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doubleup
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« Reply #10232 on: June 18, 2017, 04:10:27 PM »

If MP's were really in it for the money they would be deluded.

Any reasonably intelligent person, especially in the South East can earn 2/3/4/5 times an MP.


MP salary is 3x average UK salary, before any expenses. That probably makes it 5 times avg salary.

I'm in London and am reasonably intelligent. Please tell me how to easily make 2-5x what they earn. I could do with it Smiley

We are looking for the best quality people to make our laws and run our country.

If you were, say a Director of a FTSE100 company, what would your salary be? Or a senior civil servant?

That wouldn't be a bad comparison, off the top of my head.

Just because their current salary is 3 times the UK average is an irrelevant comparison.

We are not paying them the going rate for their responsibilities in the current market and we end up with clowns doing the job.



An MP's required competency level is a private sector Operations Manager.  So taking into account their allowances they are getting paid the right amount.  They don't make policy decisions, the parties do that.  Laws are drafted by civil servants.  Senior ministers get more and obv guaranteed gravy train millions when leaving government.


 
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Jon MW
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« Reply #10233 on: June 18, 2017, 04:16:34 PM »

If MP's were really in it for the money they would be deluded.

Any reasonably intelligent person, especially in the South East can earn 2/3/4/5 times an MP.


MP salary is 3x average UK salary, before any expenses. That probably makes it 5 times avg salary.

I'm in London and am reasonably intelligent. Please tell me how to easily make 2-5x what they earn. I could do with it Smiley

We are looking for the best quality people to make our laws and run our country.

If you were, say a Director of a FTSE100 company, what would your salary be? Or a senior civil servant?

That wouldn't be a bad comparison, off the top of my head.

Just because their current salary is 3 times the UK average is an irrelevant comparison.

We are not paying them the going rate for their responsibilities in the current market and we end up with clowns doing the job.



There is plenty of sense in what you say but it would be even better if the best and most suitable people to run the country weren't morivated primarily by money.

You're right but that just isn't really life unfortunately.



The reason MP's get paid so little (compared to the their hours and responsibilities) is specifically to make it so that you have to actually care about the job rather than just doing it for the money.

Obviously some people are going to go into it for the power and publicity, and some abuse the system (and Tories are doing it to help Our Dark Lord Lucifer),  but generally speaking it does a pretty good job at getting people who want to help and make things better in place.

I think the problem we have now is that it has just become a career path for too many politically minded young people; which results in too many MP's who have little to no experience of real life - or a real job.

The independent pay body that awards MP's pay rises is gradually going to bridge the gap to the executive pay level but I think a much simpler way of improving the quality of politicians we have is to have a bar on anyone who has less than (say) 5 years experience in a non-political job.

This would bring back some of the depth to Parliament and hopefully raise the quality level.
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RickBFA
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« Reply #10234 on: June 18, 2017, 06:07:34 PM »

If MP's were really in it for the money they would be deluded.

Any reasonably intelligent person, especially in the South East can earn 2/3/4/5 times an MP.


MP salary is 3x average UK salary, before any expenses. That probably makes it 5 times avg salary.

I'm in London and am reasonably intelligent. Please tell me how to easily make 2-5x what they earn. I could do with it Smiley

We are looking for the best quality people to make our laws and run our country.

If you were, say a Director of a FTSE100 company, what would your salary be? Or a senior civil servant?

That wouldn't be a bad comparison, off the top of my head.

Just because their current salary is 3 times the UK average is an irrelevant comparison.

We are not paying them the going rate for their responsibilities in the current market and we end up with clowns doing the job.



An MP's required competency level is a private sector Operations Manager.  So taking into account their allowances they are getting paid the right amount.  They don't make policy decisions, the parties do that.  Laws are drafted by civil servants.  Senior ministers get more and obv guaranteed gravy train millions when leaving government.


 

Little surprised by this view.

When MP's are voting on say, taking our country to war, that requires the same competency as a private sector Operations Manager?

Or has the same level of responsibility?

Really?
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doubleup
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« Reply #10235 on: June 18, 2017, 06:49:25 PM »


Going to war will either be a de facto scenario or a moral judgement that would be better addressed by discussions with constituents (but in all likelihood will be a government decision). 

MPs don't make many decisions.  If there were no political parties and every vote was a free one where MPs had to consider the wishes of their constituents and the implications of the actual law/policy being considered, I would support a much higher salary.  But that isn't the case at all.
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PokerBroker
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« Reply #10236 on: June 18, 2017, 08:10:07 PM »

Perhaps those in the private sector are just paid too much. 
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RickBFA
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« Reply #10237 on: June 18, 2017, 08:30:24 PM »


Going to war will either be a de facto scenario or a moral judgement that would be better addressed by discussions with constituents (but in all likelihood will be a government decision). 

MPs don't make many decisions.  If there were no political parties and every vote was a free one where MPs had to consider the wishes of their constituents and the implications of the actual law/policy being considered, I would support a much higher salary.  But that isn't the case at all.

The vote on Syria was a good example. MP's voting against Government planned military intervention.

Decisions like those are a big responsibility which should be made by capable intelligent people. Like it or not, more money brings better candidates in almost every walk of life.



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PokerBroker
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« Reply #10238 on: June 18, 2017, 08:53:14 PM »


Going to war will either be a de facto scenario or a moral judgement that would be better addressed by discussions with constituents (but in all likelihood will be a government decision). 

MPs don't make many decisions.  If there were no political parties and every vote was a free one where MPs had to consider the wishes of their constituents and the implications of the actual law/policy being considered, I would support a much higher salary.  But that isn't the case at all.

The vote on Syria was a good example. MP's voting against Government planned military intervention.

Decisions like those are a big responsibility which should be made by capable intelligent people. Like it or not, more money brings better candidates in almost every walk of life.





Are you sure?  I've dealt withs ome complete fucktard morons in the past who earn an absolute mint, and they aren't the sharpest. 
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RickBFA
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« Reply #10239 on: June 18, 2017, 09:13:04 PM »


Going to war will either be a de facto scenario or a moral judgement that would be better addressed by discussions with constituents (but in all likelihood will be a government decision).  

MPs don't make many decisions.  If there were no political parties and every vote was a free one where MPs had to consider the wishes of their constituents and the implications of the actual law/policy being considered, I would support a much higher salary.  But that isn't the case at all.

The vote on Syria was a good example. MP's voting against Government planned military intervention.

Decisions like those are a big responsibility which should be made by capable intelligent people. Like it or not, more money brings better candidates in almost every walk of life.





Are you sure?  I've dealt withs ome complete fucktard morons in the past who earn an absolute mint, and they aren't the sharpest.  

It's the free market (I know you'll not be a fan), usually the fucktard morons get found out in the end.

** Awaiting a comment about the banking sector





« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 09:15:48 PM by RickBFA » Logged
Doobs
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« Reply #10240 on: June 18, 2017, 10:46:21 PM »


Going to war will either be a de facto scenario or a moral judgement that would be better addressed by discussions with constituents (but in all likelihood will be a government decision).  

MPs don't make many decisions.  If there were no political parties and every vote was a free one where MPs had to consider the wishes of their constituents and the implications of the actual law/policy being considered, I would support a much higher salary.  But that isn't the case at all.

The vote on Syria was a good example. MP's voting against Government planned military intervention.

Decisions like those are a big responsibility which should be made by capable intelligent people. Like it or not, more money brings better candidates in almost every walk of life.





Are you sure?  I've dealt withs ome complete fucktard morons in the past who earn an absolute mint, and they aren't the sharpest.  

It's the free market (I know you'll not be a fan), usually the fucktard morons get found out in the end.

** Awaiting a comment about the banking sector




Given there are no vacancies and there are plenty of appicants for each post, wouldn't the free market suggest we pay them less?
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RickBFA
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« Reply #10241 on: June 18, 2017, 11:00:18 PM »


Going to war will either be a de facto scenario or a moral judgement that would be better addressed by discussions with constituents (but in all likelihood will be a government decision).  

MPs don't make many decisions.  If there were no political parties and every vote was a free one where MPs had to consider the wishes of their constituents and the implications of the actual law/policy being considered, I would support a much higher salary.  But that isn't the case at all.

The vote on Syria was a good example. MP's voting against Government planned military intervention.

Decisions like those are a big responsibility which should be made by capable intelligent people. Like it or not, more money brings better candidates in almost every walk of life.





Are you sure?  I've dealt withs ome complete fucktard morons in the past who earn an absolute mint, and they aren't the sharpest.  

It's the free market (I know you'll not be a fan), usually the fucktard morons get found out in the end.

** Awaiting a comment about the banking sector




Given there are no vacancies and there are plenty of appicants for each post, wouldn't the free market suggest we pay them less?

You got me there. Badly worded last comment by me.

Having said that, you get a few hundred applications for a Premier League football manager job.

Plenty would do it for nothing. Doesn't mean you'd be daft enough to give them the job does it?
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titaniumbean
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« Reply #10242 on: June 18, 2017, 11:02:44 PM »

have you seen some of the lemons who get the jobs and the England managers job  idiot
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« Reply #10243 on: June 19, 2017, 01:15:17 PM »

Has Britain ever been more unsafe than now?

Also, why is it that there seems to be more attacks when the Tories are in power.  Is that a coincidence?
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titaniumbean
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« Reply #10244 on: June 19, 2017, 01:55:08 PM »

Has Britain ever been more unsafe than now?

Also, why is it that there seems to be more attacks when the Tories are in power.  Is that a coincidence?

yes?  IRA, world wars etc

 Click to see full-size image.



If one side is in power more then it follows that they will be in charge when more attacks happen no?

In previous decades we also didn't have footage of each attack live streamed or posted 30 seconds after the incident before any news media are aware, back in the day you had to wait for the papers to get to you. We get deluged with 24/7 repeated stories etc so it may feel more oppressive.
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