The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[DungBeetle]

Every time i am in hospital i always think its full of English speaking (British) people who don't bring a skill to this country and are happy to live off the state and take out way more than they put in. The reality is the vast majority of this country's population takes out way more than it puts in over their lifetime but because they were born in England it's fine for them to do this whilst telling people's family who come from abroad it is a disgrace to do the same thing even if their families bread winner is a decent grafter unlike millions of British people.  Sure the stats boys here like kuk and doobs and double up will know the figures but i think the average family have to earn way in excess of £50k a year to be net payers to the system.  So the vast majority of people who love to moan about people never paying in don't actually cover their own take outs themselves.

I would much prefer to get rid of the underclass bottom 10% of Britain out of the country (and stop them breeding more scum) who really do think the British government owes them a living/lifestyle than the millions of generally hard working immigrants.  I think i know who are the biggest strain on the system.  Wetherspoons/high st bookies would probably go out of business as a result but i am sure we could cope.

Hard working people from aboard (generally but not 100% are young single fit people ambitious and hungry to get on and don't put a big strain on resources) come to this country and work hard and never hardly take a penny.  I have worked abroad several times and hardly taken a penny out of the local system but paid plenty in.  Most don't stay long term in their old age and drain the nhs of money/pensions from the system.  They come from 20-40 years old and usually go back home after earning their cash and paying their dues via the tax system.  As the stats have proven and numerous here have stated this is fact not fantasy.

Well yes.  But isn’t it my duty as a heavy taxpayer to look after these people as they are an existing part of society?   Obviously it would be nice if the left said thank you once in a while rather than telling me I need to put in even more.

Thanking you for paying tax, this is funny and truly ridiculous.

Why? Seems reasonable to me, all you seem to get is shouting that people earning more should pay more tax. The thanks bit was obviously a joke, but it often feel like ‘fuck you for being successful you prick, you should pay more!!!’

What if you think success is defined by the contribution you make to society? In a country where poverty is soaring, “I earn so much money I have to pay loads of tax” is just a very lame sob story. Public servants pay tax, as well as the other obvious contributions they make to society.

Most public servants get a personal allowance.  I don’t.  I don’t want a medal I just don’t want to constantly read your sanctimonious bullshit when you only put a fraction in yourself.

[kukushkin88]

Every time i am in hospital i always think its full of English speaking (British) people who don't bring a skill to this country and are happy to live off the state and take out way more than they put in. The reality is the vast majority of this country's population takes out way more than it puts in over their lifetime but because they were born in England it's fine for them to do this whilst telling people's family who come from abroad it is a disgrace to do the same thing even if their families bread winner is a decent grafter unlike millions of British people.  Sure the stats boys here like kuk and doobs and double up will know the figures but i think the average family have to earn way in excess of £50k a year to be net payers to the system.  So the vast majority of people who love to moan about people never paying in don't actually cover their own take outs themselves.

I would much prefer to get rid of the underclass bottom 10% of Britain out of the country (and stop them breeding more scum) who really do think the British government owes them a living/lifestyle than the millions of generally hard working immigrants.  I think i know who are the biggest strain on the system.  Wetherspoons/high st bookies would probably go out of business as a result but i am sure we could cope.

Hard working people from aboard (generally but not 100% are young single fit people ambitious and hungry to get on and don't put a big strain on resources) come to this country and work hard and never hardly take a penny.  I have worked abroad several times and hardly taken a penny out of the local system but paid plenty in.  Most don't stay long term in their old age and drain the nhs of money/pensions from the system.  They come from 20-40 years old and usually go back home after earning their cash and paying their dues via the tax system.  As the stats have proven and numerous here have stated this is fact not fantasy.

Well yes.  But isn’t it my duty as a heavy taxpayer to look after these people as they are an existing part of society?   Obviously it would be nice if the left said thank you once in a while rather than telling me I need to put in even more.

Thanking you for paying tax, this is funny and truly ridiculous.

Why?  I pay an absolute truckload and have done for 15 years and all under PAYE.  I don’t mind if you don’t thank me on your internet whines.  Just don’t spit in my face.

It’s beyond ridiculous. “Spit in my face” wtf are you talking about? No one, least of all me gives a fuck about how much tax you pay. It’s a discussion about a society/population wide problem.

[DungBeetle]

Every time i am in hospital i always think its full of English speaking (British) people who don't bring a skill to this country and are happy to live off the state and take out way more than they put in. The reality is the vast majority of this country's population takes out way more than it puts in over their lifetime but because they were born in England it's fine for them to do this whilst telling people's family who come from abroad it is a disgrace to do the same thing even if their families bread winner is a decent grafter unlike millions of British people.  Sure the stats boys here like kuk and doobs and double up will know the figures but i think the average family have to earn way in excess of £50k a year to be net payers to the system.  So the vast majority of people who love to moan about people never paying in don't actually cover their own take outs themselves.

I would much prefer to get rid of the underclass bottom 10% of Britain out of the country (and stop them breeding more scum) who really do think the British government owes them a living/lifestyle than the millions of generally hard working immigrants.  I think i know who are the biggest strain on the system.  Wetherspoons/high st bookies would probably go out of business as a result but i am sure we could cope.

Hard working people from aboard (generally but not 100% are young single fit people ambitious and hungry to get on and don't put a big strain on resources) come to this country and work hard and never hardly take a penny.  I have worked abroad several times and hardly taken a penny out of the local system but paid plenty in.  Most don't stay long term in their old age and drain the nhs of money/pensions from the system.  They come from 20-40 years old and usually go back home after earning their cash and paying their dues via the tax system.  As the stats have proven and numerous here have stated this is fact not fantasy.

Well yes.  But isn’t it my duty as a heavy taxpayer to look after these people as they are an existing part of society?   Obviously it would be nice if the left said thank you once in a while rather than telling me I need to put in even more.

Thanking you for paying tax, this is funny and truly ridiculous.

Why?  I pay an absolute truckload and have done for 15 years and all under PAYE.  I don’t mind if you don’t thank me on your internet whines.  Just don’t spit in my face.

It’s beyond ridiculous. “Spit in my face” wtf are you talking about? No one, least of all me gives a fuck about how much tax you pay. It’s a discussion about a society/population wide problem.

The likes of you (plus Corbyn/McDonnell) spin the lines:

- High earners don't pay their fair share
- High earners are busy putting their money offshore

Well we already do pay a high amount.  I'm happy the Scandanavian model - 2k personal allowance for everyone.  25% VAT.   I'll pay more tax of course, but at least everyone will pay their share.  But that would involve you paying more tax so you probably just advocate 60% higher rate I'd imagine while moaning that people in my boat aren't paying enough. 

[kukushkin88]

Every time i am in hospital i always think its full of English speaking (British) people who don't bring a skill to this country and are happy to live off the state and take out way more than they put in. The reality is the vast majority of this country's population takes out way more than it puts in over their lifetime but because they were born in England it's fine for them to do this whilst telling people's family who come from abroad it is a disgrace to do the same thing even if their families bread winner is a decent grafter unlike millions of British people.  Sure the stats boys here like kuk and doobs and double up will know the figures but i think the average family have to earn way in excess of £50k a year to be net payers to the system.  So the vast majority of people who love to moan about people never paying in don't actually cover their own take outs themselves.

I would much prefer to get rid of the underclass bottom 10% of Britain out of the country (and stop them breeding more scum) who really do think the British government owes them a living/lifestyle than the millions of generally hard working immigrants.  I think i know who are the biggest strain on the system.  Wetherspoons/high st bookies would probably go out of business as a result but i am sure we could cope.

Hard working people from aboard (generally but not 100% are young single fit people ambitious and hungry to get on and don't put a big strain on resources) come to this country and work hard and never hardly take a penny.  I have worked abroad several times and hardly taken a penny out of the local system but paid plenty in.  Most don't stay long term in their old age and drain the nhs of money/pensions from the system.  They come from 20-40 years old and usually go back home after earning their cash and paying their dues via the tax system.  As the stats have proven and numerous here have stated this is fact not fantasy.

Well yes.  But isn’t it my duty as a heavy taxpayer to look after these people as they are an existing part of society?   Obviously it would be nice if the left said thank you once in a while rather than telling me I need to put in even more.

Thanking you for paying tax, this is funny and truly ridiculous.

Why?  I pay an absolute truckload and have done for 15 years and all under PAYE.  I don’t mind if you don’t thank me on your internet whines.  Just don’t spit in my face.

It’s beyond ridiculous. “Spit in my face” wtf are you talking about? No one, least of all me gives a fuck about how much tax you pay. It’s a discussion about a society/population wide problem.

The likes of you (plus Corbyn/McDonnell) spin the lines:

- High earners don't pay their fair share
- High earners are busy putting their money offshore

Well we already do pay a high amount.  I'm happy the Scandanavian model - 2k personal allowance for everyone.  25% VAT.   I'll pay more tax of course, but at least everyone will pay their share.  But that would involve you paying more tax so you probably just advocate 60% higher rate I'd imagine while moaning that people in my boat aren't paying enough. 

Why do you think I’m reluctant to pay more tax? It’s just a weird and entirely inaccurate rant, maybe calm down a bit.

[DungBeetle]

Every time i am in hospital i always think its full of English speaking (British) people who don't bring a skill to this country and are happy to live off the state and take out way more than they put in. The reality is the vast majority of this country's population takes out way more than it puts in over their lifetime but because they were born in England it's fine for them to do this whilst telling people's family who come from abroad it is a disgrace to do the same thing even if their families bread winner is a decent grafter unlike millions of British people.  Sure the stats boys here like kuk and doobs and double up will know the figures but i think the average family have to earn way in excess of £50k a year to be net payers to the system.  So the vast majority of people who love to moan about people never paying in don't actually cover their own take outs themselves.

I would much prefer to get rid of the underclass bottom 10% of Britain out of the country (and stop them breeding more scum) who really do think the British government owes them a living/lifestyle than the millions of generally hard working immigrants.  I think i know who are the biggest strain on the system.  Wetherspoons/high st bookies would probably go out of business as a result but i am sure we could cope.

Hard working people from aboard (generally but not 100% are young single fit people ambitious and hungry to get on and don't put a big strain on resources) come to this country and work hard and never hardly take a penny.  I have worked abroad several times and hardly taken a penny out of the local system but paid plenty in.  Most don't stay long term in their old age and drain the nhs of money/pensions from the system.  They come from 20-40 years old and usually go back home after earning their cash and paying their dues via the tax system.  As the stats have proven and numerous here have stated this is fact not fantasy.

Well yes.  But isn’t it my duty as a heavy taxpayer to look after these people as they are an existing part of society?   Obviously it would be nice if the left said thank you once in a while rather than telling me I need to put in even more.

Thanking you for paying tax, this is funny and truly ridiculous.

Why?  I pay an absolute truckload and have done for 15 years and all under PAYE.  I don’t mind if you don’t thank me on your internet whines.  Just don’t spit in my face.

It’s beyond ridiculous. “Spit in my face” wtf are you talking about? No one, least of all me gives a fuck about how much tax you pay. It’s a discussion about a society/population wide problem.

The likes of you (plus Corbyn/McDonnell) spin the lines:

- High earners don't pay their fair share
- High earners are busy putting their money offshore

Well we already do pay a high amount.  I'm happy the Scandanavian model - 2k personal allowance for everyone.  25% VAT.   I'll pay more tax of course, but at least everyone will pay their share.  But that would involve you paying more tax so you probably just advocate 60% higher rate I'd imagine while moaning that people in my boat aren't paying enough. 

Why do you think I’m reluctant to pay more tax? It’s just a weird and entirely inaccurate rant, maybe calm down a bit.

Are you happy with minimal personal allowance for all, tax rate starting at 30% and VAT at 25%.  In return I pay 60% up top.  If you are then we are in agreement.  Given VAT is painted as such a horror by the left I imagine you'll be against this model.

[kukushkin88]

What do you perceive the merit of higher VAT to be? Just seems to be disproportionately unfair on the poor/poverty stricken.

[DungBeetle]

What do you perceive the merit of higher VAT to be? Just seems to be disproportionately unfair on the poor/poverty stricken.

It's a mirage.  The poor don't save.  Savings don't get taxed.  Thus VAT can be made to look statistically like it impacts the poor as a percentage of income.  I pay a fortune in VAT but I also save money.  Unless we tax the act of saving, then VAT will always skew the numbers.  The Scandanavians are said to have a fair society.  Presumably you are happy to follow their tax model?  I am.

[kukushkin88]

What do you perceive the merit of higher VAT to be? Just seems to be disproportionately unfair on the poor/poverty stricken.

It's a mirage.  The poor don't save.  Savings don't get taxed.  Thus VAT can be made to look statistically like it impacts the poor as a percentage of income.  I pay a fortune in VAT but I also save money.  Unless we tax the act of saving, then VAT will always skew the numbers.  The Scandanavians are said to have a fair society.  Presumably you are happy to follow their tax model?  I am.

Good morning,

You’ll need to explain the savings/vat ‘mirage’. There must be a key bit information I’m missing. I’ve researched extensively on the internet and there’s nothing there. If you or anyone else could provide insight that would be most appreciated.

Are you suggesting we use a different method to measure this other than ‘as a % of total income’? You say the poor don’t save like it’s a criticism. This is austerity Britain, they also don’t always eat, heat their homes or clothe their children but I can’t see what the lack of savings has to do with VAT.

Why not just ask me what I think about rates of taxation? Telling me what I should and shouldn’t like is just weird and comes across as an angry and idiotic rant.

[Dewi_cool]

Will the be VAT after Brexit?

[MANTIS01]

Is it ok for the poor to suffer as long as the union is protected?

[kukushkin88]

Is it ok for the poor to suffer as long as the union is protected?

The question doesn’t make sense. It’s also not clear who it’s directed at. Do you mean the EU? With us outside it? Obviously they have no obligation to any of us, irrelevant of wealth. That’s Brexit. We fucked it up, doesn’t mean they have to fix it.

[kukushkin88]

Is it ok for the poor to suffer as long as the union is protected?

The question doesn’t make sense. It’s also not clear who it’s directed at. Do you mean the EU? With us outside it? Obviously they have no obligation to any of us, irrelevant of wealth. That’s Brexit. We fucked it up, doesn’t mean they have to fix it.

It’s pretty amazing that you don’t seem to be getting this part of it. After Brexit, Britain looks after Britain, the EU looks after all of its member states. We can’t say ‘We hadn’t realised how shit we would be at this. Can you take pity on us and look after us (and our poverty stricken people) please?’

[MANTIS01]

So why intervene in conflict around the world? Economically insane. No point caring about oppression of people in other countries cos Britain lshould look after Britain like. Or why care about poverty in Africa? Just looking after ourselves seems very right wing mate.

[BigAdz]

Groundhog Day, as I wake to read kush stating,

You don't seem to be getting this

It's beyond ridiculous/ truly ridiculous/ idiotic rant.

I don't care what you do, pay, get taxed etc, yet professes to claim about all of us.....

Another fun day ahead in thread Brexit

[kukushkin88]

So why intervene in conflict around the world? Economically insane. No point caring about oppression of people in other countries cos Britain lshould look after Britain like. Or why care about poverty in Africa? Just looking after ourselves seems very right wing mate.

War is not similar in any way, to suggest it is just further highlights how thoroughly you don’t understand. I agree that Brexit is largely a right wing project, almost by accident, if you think what Cameron would have been thinking/expecting when he called the referendum.