The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[MintTrav]

For the past chunk of our history the state has had to make sure that whatever they do is OK with the EC.

Where is it in this process that the law has to go to the EC for approval?  

http://www.parliament.uk/about/how/laws/passage-bill/commons/coms-commons-first-reading/

There is an obvious sense check that a law doesn't conflict with any EC commitments, but I can't see that as supporting your assertion.

So basically more brexitist lies then.  Although the brexitist politicians are getting paid to talk shite, you're doing it for nothing, that's a bit careless imo.

The official position of the European Parliament is that "a big portion of the laws adopted by the House of Commons and House of Lords actually are EU-laws that are made into national laws by the national parliaments". When we asked for their source, they cited the House of Commons Library research we present here as well as examples from elsewhere in Europe.


https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-law-what-proportion-influenced-eu/



The Brexiteers certainly don't have a monopoly on talking shite. Who's paying you?

you said

For the past chunk of our history the state has had to make sure that whatever they do is OK with the EC.

Whatever they do

That is simply untrue

OK, let's revise that to 'For the past chunk of our history the state has had to make sure that much of what they do is OK with the EC.'

Can you accept that as being accurate? A chunk is between 30 & 40 years btw.

The truth is that c95% of British Businesses have zero EC trade. Yet 100% have to comply with EC regulations.

Which EU regs do you wish us to be unburdened of?

I think David is pointing out that everybody living in the country gets the benefits of our businesses complying with EU regulations, whether as a business-owner, an employee or a private citizen and that you don't need to trade with the EU to benefit from the regulations.

[doubleup]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2016

can't see much there

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015

A couple here

but they are about 6 lines long

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2014?page=2

Another 2 paragraph job here

What am I missing?

Where is all this EC legislation that's taking so much time that the tories can't get their laws through?

 

[arbboy]

The flip side of this is the constant red tape businesses face (and the incurring ex's which force up prices and reduce competitiveness) from EU reg's when they don't trade with the EU.  There was a smoked salmon farmer on radio five live a week or so ago saying the EU reg's he faces cost him a five figure sum being forced to reprint all his packaging to fall in line with EU reg's even though he doesn't trade outside of the UK to the EU at all.

[MintTrav]

The flip side of this is the constant red tape businesses face (and the incurring ex's which force up prices and reduce competitiveness) from EU reg's when they don't trade with the EU.  There was a smoked salmon farmer on radio five live a week or so ago saying the EU reg's he faces cost him a five figure sum being forced to reprint all his packaging to fall in line with EU reg's even though he doesn't trade outside of the UK to the EU at all.

So businesses are being forced to tell consumers what they are putting into our food, and they have to follow regulations about the size of lettering and so on. Bloody red tape.

[RickBFA]

The flip side of this is the constant red tape businesses face (and the incurring ex's which force up prices and reduce competitiveness) from EU reg's when they don't trade with the EU.  There was a smoked salmon farmer on radio five live a week or so ago saying the EU reg's he faces cost him a five figure sum being forced to reprint all his packaging to fall in line with EU reg's even though he doesn't trade outside of the UK to the EU at all.

So businesses are being forced to tell consumers what they are putting into our food, and they have to follow regulations about the size of lettering and so on. Bloody red tape.

I may be wrong but I think the situation was the guy selling salmon had to print something like "contains fish" or some such wording - he was selling salmon!

The guy had to go to the expense of re-printing all his labelling.

It was rather silly (and unnecessary if common sense prevailed).

[arbboy]

The flip side of this is the constant red tape businesses face (and the incurring ex's which force up prices and reduce competitiveness) from EU reg's when they don't trade with the EU.  There was a smoked salmon farmer on radio five live a week or so ago saying the EU reg's he faces cost him a five figure sum being forced to reprint all his packaging to fall in line with EU reg's even though he doesn't trade outside of the UK to the EU at all.

So businesses are being forced to tell consumers what they are putting into our food, and they have to follow regulations about the size of lettering and so on. Bloody red tape.

I may be wrong but I think the situation was the guy selling salmon had to print something like "contains fish" or some such wording - he was selling salmon!

The guy had to go to the expense of re-printing all his labelling.

It was rather silly (and unnecessary if common sense prevailed).

Correct that is exactly what it was!  Contains fish!  Do me a fucking favour.  Fuck off EU.   Buy some nuts at the boozer and they have to say 'contains nuts'.  No fucking shit.  imagine running a business where you don't trade at all with the EU and being forced to set fire to a five figure sum just to put something insane like that on your new packaging and set fire to the perfectly good old packaging.

[MintTrav]

The flip side of this is the constant red tape businesses face (and the incurring ex's which force up prices and reduce competitiveness) from EU reg's when they don't trade with the EU.  There was a smoked salmon farmer on radio five live a week or so ago saying the EU reg's he faces cost him a five figure sum being forced to reprint all his packaging to fall in line with EU reg's even though he doesn't trade outside of the UK to the EU at all.

So businesses are being forced to tell consumers what they are putting into our food, and they have to follow regulations about the size of lettering and so on. Bloody red tape.

I may be wrong but I think the situation was the guy selling salmon had to print something like "contains fish" or some such wording - he was selling salmon!

The guy had to go to the expense of re-printing all his labelling.

It was rather silly (and unnecessary if common sense prevailed).

Correct that is exactly what it was!  Contains fish!  Do me a fucking favour.  Fuck off EU.   Buy some nuts at the boozer and they have to say 'contains nuts'.  No fucking shit.  imagine running a business where you don't trade at all with the EU and being forced to set fire to a five figure sum just to put something insane like that on your new packaging and set fire to the perfectly good old packaging.

You're not getting the point. It has nothing at all to do with trading with the EU. It's about protecting UK customers, employees and other businesses.

[RickBFA]

The flip side of this is the constant red tape businesses face (and the incurring ex's which force up prices and reduce competitiveness) from EU reg's when they don't trade with the EU.  There was a smoked salmon farmer on radio five live a week or so ago saying the EU reg's he faces cost him a five figure sum being forced to reprint all his packaging to fall in line with EU reg's even though he doesn't trade outside of the UK to the EU at all.

So businesses are being forced to tell consumers what they are putting into our food, and they have to follow regulations about the size of lettering and so on. Bloody red tape.

I may be wrong but I think the situation was the guy selling salmon had to print something like "contains fish" or some such wording - he was selling salmon!

The guy had to go to the expense of re-printing all his labelling.

It was rather silly (and unnecessary if common sense prevailed).

Correct that is exactly what it was!  Contains fish!  Do me a fucking favour.  Fuck off EU.   Buy some nuts at the boozer and they have to say 'contains nuts'.  No fucking shit.  imagine running a business where you don't trade at all with the EU and being forced to set fire to a five figure sum just to put something insane like that on your new packaging and set fire to the perfectly good old packaging.

You're not getting the point. It has nothing at all to do with trading with the EU. It's about protecting UK customers, employees and other businesses.

Mint, I'm feeling playful - how does getting a guy who sells salmon to reprint his labels to say "contains fish" protect the consumer?

We've managed to sell salmon for hundreds of years and realise salmon is fish.

You have to agree, some regulations are just daft.

[arbboy]

Only a loony leftie can think of a more stupid way to set fire to five figure sum of cash.  I would love to know your views mint if you run the said business and were forced to set fire to this cash rather than just be a sit on the fence do gooder.  Maybe your view would be different then?

Why don't fosters glasses in a pub say 'contains lager' on them? Where does the nonsense stop.  It is all about the claim culture and too many years of the nanny state killing common sense.  It always hits the sole trader and family owned businesses way more because of economies of scale than the big boys as well which just stifles risk takers getting out there and creating jobs for the lefties to take rather than live on benefits street.

[arbboy]

The flip side of this is the constant red tape businesses face (and the incurring ex's which force up prices and reduce competitiveness) from EU reg's when they don't trade with the EU.  There was a smoked salmon farmer on radio five live a week or so ago saying the EU reg's he faces cost him a five figure sum being forced to reprint all his packaging to fall in line with EU reg's even though he doesn't trade outside of the UK to the EU at all.

So businesses are being forced to tell consumers what they are putting into our food, and they have to follow regulations about the size of lettering and so on. Bloody red tape.

I may be wrong but I think the situation was the guy selling salmon had to print something like "contains fish" or some such wording - he was selling salmon!

The guy had to go to the expense of re-printing all his labelling.

It was rather silly (and unnecessary if common sense prevailed).

Correct that is exactly what it was!  Contains fish!  Do me a fucking favour.  Fuck off EU.   Buy some nuts at the boozer and they have to say 'contains nuts'.  No fucking shit.  imagine running a business where you don't trade at all with the EU and being forced to set fire to a five figure sum just to put something insane like that on your new packaging and set fire to the perfectly good old packaging.

You're not getting the point. It has nothing at all to do with trading with the EU. It's about protecting UK customers, employees and other businesses.

Mint, I'm feeling playful - how does getting a guy who sells salmon to reprint his labels to say "contains fish" protect the consumer?

We've managed to sell salmon for hundreds of years and realise salmon is fish.

You have to agree, some regulations are just daft.

When you buy fish from a fish market does your bag say ' contains fish' when you walk away win a freshly bagged up piece of fish? If it has to the world is mad!

[RickBFA]

Only a loony leftie can think of a more stupid way to set fire to five figure sum of cash.  I would love to know your views mint if you run the said business and were forced to set fire to this cash rather than just be a sit on the fence do gooder.  Maybe your view would be different then?

Why don't fosters glasses in a pub say 'contains lager' on them? Where does the nonsense stop.  It is all about the claim culture and too many years of the nanny state killing common sense.

You're right Arb.

Our society has become so risk averse and politically correct.

I suppose this question in a daft way gets to the heart of the question about controlling our own laws - Mint says its about "protecting UK customers, employees and other businesses" - why do we need the EU to do this?

Are we so incapable as a society to make these decisions ourselves or do we need the wisdom of the EU to protect us from ourselves?

[arbboy]

It is always someone's else's fault nowadays! Never your own that's why these brain dead laws are in place. No other reason.  If you are so thick you don't realise what fish is when you have an allergy to fish then maybe you really need to seek medical help at your own expense rather than on the nhs.

 It is only when you get out of this risk averse corporate bollocks culture like I fortunately have in the past ten years with my career that you realise how much it costs UK business's and how much cash is stupidly spent. I am sitting in a hotel in Manchester looking at loads of corporate suits who couldn't flip a coin for a monkey if you put a gun to their head but these nits run businesses and are scared to death to do anything out of line in case of being sued.  In comparisons you have someone like rob at dtd who is the total opposite and understands to make money you have to take risk.  I find the corporate world so zzzzzzzz I shit myself about ever having to re enter it because most decision makers are clueless and don't take enough risks.

[MintTrav]

Only a loony leftie can think of a more stupid way to set fire to five figure sum of cash.  I would love to know your views mint if you run the said business and were forced to set fire to this cash rather than just be a sit on the fence do gooder.  Maybe your view would be different then?

Why don't fosters glasses in a pub say 'contains lager' on them? Where does the nonsense stop.  It is all about the claim culture and too many years of the nanny state killing common sense.

You're right Arb.

Our society has become so risk averse and politically correct.

I suppose this question in a daft way gets to the heart of the question about controlling our own laws - Mint says its about "protecting UK customers, employees and other businesses" - why do we need the EU to do this?

Are we so incapable as a society to make these decisions ourselves or do we need the wisdom of the EU to protect us from ourselves?

Funny that we haven't gone ahead and implemented them ourselves then until forced to do so. Why do you think that is?

[doubleup]

The flip side of this is the constant red tape businesses face (and the incurring ex's which force up prices and reduce competitiveness) from EU reg's when they don't trade with the EU.  There was a smoked salmon farmer on radio five live a week or so ago saying the EU reg's he faces cost him a five figure sum being forced to reprint all his packaging to fall in line with EU reg's even though he doesn't trade outside of the UK to the EU at all.

So businesses are being forced to tell consumers what they are putting into our food, and they have to follow regulations about the size of lettering and so on. Bloody red tape.

I may be wrong but I think the situation was the guy selling salmon had to print something like "contains fish" or some such wording - he was selling salmon!

The guy had to go to the expense of re-printing all his labelling.

It was rather silly (and unnecessary if common sense prevailed).

Correct that is exactly what it was!  Contains fish!  Do me a fucking favour.  Fuck off EU.   Buy some nuts at the boozer and they have to say 'contains nuts'.  No fucking shit.  imagine running a business where you don't trade at all with the EU and being forced to set fire to a five figure sum just to put something insane like that on your new packaging and set fire to the perfectly good old packaging.

You're not getting the point. It has nothing at all to do with trading with the EU. It's about protecting UK customers, employees and other businesses.

Mint, I'm feeling playful - how does getting a guy who sells salmon to reprint his labels to say "contains fish" protect the consumer?

We've managed to sell salmon for hundreds of years and realise salmon is fish.

You have to agree, some regulations are just daft.

So you think that instead of just putting the ingredients on the pack (whether this is single or multiple ingredients) it would be a simpler process to decide - perhaps through complex testing - what the simplest consumer would be expected to know and then either put the ingredients on or not?

And you think the EC are bureaucratic?

And if putting "salmon" on a package is a significant cost to a business in the digital age, they deserve to go under as they are obviously utter mugs.

[RickBFA]

Only a loony leftie can think of a more stupid way to set fire to five figure sum of cash.  I would love to know your views mint if you run the said business and were forced to set fire to this cash rather than just be a sit on the fence do gooder.  Maybe your view would be different then?

Why don't fosters glasses in a pub say 'contains lager' on them? Where does the nonsense stop.  It is all about the claim culture and too many years of the nanny state killing common sense.

You're right Arb.

Our society has become so risk averse and politically correct.

I suppose this question in a daft way gets to the heart of the question about controlling our own laws - Mint says its about "protecting UK customers, employees and other businesses" - why do we need the EU to do this?

Are we so incapable as a society to make these decisions ourselves or do we need the wisdom of the EU to protect us from ourselves?

Funny that we haven't gone ahead and implemented them ourselves then until forced to do so. Why do you think that is?

Maybe we viewed it as unnecessary or inappropriate?

Maybe we would have implemented them in our risk adverse society?

You don't answer the point though - why do we need the EU to tell us to do it? Why cant we decide that for ourselves?