The UK Politics and EU Referendum thread - merged

[titaniumbean]

ooops

[titaniumbean]

ooopsy daisy

[DaveShoelace]

On a beach somewhere, Tighty is having a shit holiday

[titaniumbean]

oh piss I didn't see I was in the wrong thread lemme see if I can move them 

[DungBeetle]

yes exactly my point!


those at fault just made huge profits and live on their boats in the BVI. whilst everyone else got fucked by the economy tanking and many not involved people losing their jobs.

if you do something illegal and make money the government take that money (and waste it), in this instance those who committed the actual crimes were allowed to keep their money.....

There were no crimes committed in general though were there?  Poor risk management, excessive leverage and bad loans for sure. However it's not a crime to be crap at your job.  How aforementioned crap workers get to get massive bonuses because people think it is going well is another matter. 

[titaniumbean]

yes exactly my point!


those at fault just made huge profits and live on their boats in the BVI. whilst everyone else got fucked by the economy tanking and many not involved people losing their jobs.

if you do something illegal and make money the government take that money (and waste it), in this instance those who committed the actual crimes were allowed to keep their money.....

There were no crimes committed in general though were there?  Poor risk management, excessive leverage and bad loans for sure. However it's not a crime to be crap at your job.  How aforementioned crap workers get to get massive bonuses because people think it is going well is another matter. 

The government were the ones to unregulate and let them run wild, for a situation to affect so many people detrimentally that just implies there has been a catastrophic failure in our justice system.

They even had messages exchanged on the inter bank systems talking about how toxic and shit they were but how churn rate provided great expectations of bonuses. There should be criminality found somewhere.

Especially when we have 'crimes' for such unaffecting things that disproportionately target the poor. It's a farce.

[DungBeetle]

The UK prints its own currency, it does not have a debt problem or a deficit problem.

Both labour and tories speak utter rubbish on this subject, usually knowingly but often out of sheer ignorance which is worse.

Just because you have your own currency doesn't mean you can pretend debt isn't an issue.  If we printed a trillion pounds and gave it our citizens presumably you would agree that is a sub optimal strategy?  Are you a MMT fan by any chance?  

[Doobs]

yes exactly my point!


those at fault just made huge profits and live on their boats in the BVI. whilst everyone else got fucked by the economy tanking and many not involved people losing their jobs.

if you do something illegal and make money the government take that money (and waste it), in this instance those who committed the actual crimes were allowed to keep their money.....

Bank bonuses can, and have been clawed back.  It was one of the things that changed after the crisis.  So if you were working in an area where their were massive losses, you are likely to have lost much of your bonus.  Whilst it is true that there are still massively rich bankers living the life of riley, that isn't the same as saying those that caused the crisis are living the life of riley.  The overlap of the two groups just isn't going to be that large.

A lot of people who caused massive losses were very incompetent, but that wasn't a crime.  FWIW In the future, directors of financial institutions are going to be much more liable than they were in 2008.  If you look back on Equitable, for example, several directors pretty much said in their defence we couldn't be expected to understand all that financial shit.  They really couldn't get away with that now.  

[DungBeetle]

yes exactly my point!


those at fault just made huge profits and live on their boats in the BVI. whilst everyone else got fucked by the economy tanking and many not involved people losing their jobs.

if you do something illegal and make money the government take that money (and waste it), in this instance those who committed the actual crimes were allowed to keep their money.....

There were no crimes committed in general though were there?  Poor risk management, excessive leverage and bad loans for sure. However it's not a crime to be crap at your job.  How aforementioned crap workers get to get massive bonuses because people think it is going well is another matter. 

The government were the ones to unregulate and let them run wild, for a situation to affect so many people detrimentally that just implies there has been a catastrophic failure in our justice system.

They even had messages exchanged on the inter bank systems talking about how toxic and shit they were but how churn rate provided great expectations of bonuses. There should be criminality found somewhere.

Especially when we have 'crimes' for such unaffecting things that disproportionately target the poor. It's a farce.

They are selling securitised debt so of course the more they shift the more they make.  If punters are willing to buy mezz tranches at overvalue in a free market then where is the crime?  The problem happens when you've got retail operations and punto derivatives in the same bank and the new ring fencing rules have put a stop to that.  No idea why it has taken 10 years though.

[titaniumbean]

I dont get why people think that the Tories would 'sort that out' or provide any protection against it Blair/Brown/Tories they are all at fault for this.

Yet I still see people voting Tories because they will be the least shit with the economy.

it's just mind numbing. no one thinks anyone will be good with it, it's just who is the least bad    What a horrible position to be in.

[titaniumbean]

yes exactly my point!


those at fault just made huge profits and live on their boats in the BVI. whilst everyone else got fucked by the economy tanking and many not involved people losing their jobs.

if you do something illegal and make money the government take that money (and waste it), in this instance those who committed the actual crimes were allowed to keep their money.....

There were no crimes committed in general though were there?  Poor risk management, excessive leverage and bad loans for sure. However it's not a crime to be crap at your job.  How aforementioned crap workers get to get massive bonuses because people think it is going well is another matter. 

The government were the ones to unregulate and let them run wild, for a situation to affect so many people detrimentally that just implies there has been a catastrophic failure in our justice system.

They even had messages exchanged on the inter bank systems talking about how toxic and shit they were but how churn rate provided great expectations of bonuses. There should be criminality found somewhere.

Especially when we have 'crimes' for such unaffecting things that disproportionately target the poor. It's a farce.

They are selling securitised debt so of course the more they shift the more they make.  If punters are willing to buy mezz tranches at overvalue in a free market then where is the crime?  The problem happens when you've got retail operations and punto derivatives in the same bank and the new ring fencing rules have put a stop to that.  No idea why it has taken 10 years though.

it's just a freeroll though, sell alot of ticking timebombs profit and leave, shit hits the fan limited claw back occurs. Wait a few years have another form of bubble/scam and rich get richer poor get poorer and yada yada. It's frustrating.

[DungBeetle]

I dont get why people think that the Tories would 'sort that out' or provide any protection against it Blair/Brown/Tories they are all at fault for this.

Yet I still see people voting Tories because they will be the least shit with the economy.

it's just mind numbing. no one thinks anyone will be good with it, it's just who is the least bad    What a horrible position to be in.

But the Tories have pushed through ring fencing rules for UK banks so they are trying to do something.  Just very slowly.  And to be fair they have put though far more tax avoidance rules than Blair/Brown ever did.

[DungBeetle]

yes exactly my point!


those at fault just made huge profits and live on their boats in the BVI. whilst everyone else got fucked by the economy tanking and many not involved people losing their jobs.

if you do something illegal and make money the government take that money (and waste it), in this instance those who committed the actual crimes were allowed to keep their money.....

There were no crimes committed in general though were there?  Poor risk management, excessive leverage and bad loans for sure. However it's not a crime to be crap at your job.  How aforementioned crap workers get to get massive bonuses because people think it is going well is another matter. 

The government were the ones to unregulate and let them run wild, for a situation to affect so many people detrimentally that just implies there has been a catastrophic failure in our justice system.

They even had messages exchanged on the inter bank systems talking about how toxic and shit they were but how churn rate provided great expectations of bonuses. There should be criminality found somewhere.

Especially when we have 'crimes' for such unaffecting things that disproportionately target the poor. It's a farce.

They are selling securitised debt so of course the more they shift the more they make.  If punters are willing to buy mezz tranches at overvalue in a free market then where is the crime?  The problem happens when you've got retail operations and punto derivatives in the same bank and the new ring fencing rules have put a stop to that.  No idea why it has taken 10 years though.

it's just a freeroll though, sell alot of ticking timebombs profit and leave, shit hits the fan limited claw back occurs. Wait a few years have another form of bubble/scam and rich get richer poor get poorer and yada yada. It's frustrating.

Yes I agree with that.  Roll the dice and if you win then quids in and if you lose then you just get fired.  The bonus culture was wrong. Some steps have been made like claw back and being paid in stock.  But not enough.

[titaniumbean]

I dont get why people think that the Tories would 'sort that out' or provide any protection against it Blair/Brown/Tories they are all at fault for this.

Yet I still see people voting Tories because they will be the least shit with the economy.

it's just mind numbing. no one thinks anyone will be good with it, it's just who is the least bad    What a horrible position to be in.

But the Tories have pushed through ring fencing rules for UK banks so they are trying to do something.  Just very slowly.  And to be fair they have put though far more tax avoidance rules than Blair/Brown ever did.

Good, no where near enough though. They all still profiteer off the tax haven shit.

It's just the patronising oh we will sort it out, you guys just need to tighten your belts a bit whilst we cut back on all the most important things whilst we have to buy sweatpants because we cant imagine stopping improving our own position for even a second.

[DungBeetle]

yes exactly my point!


those at fault just made huge profits and live on their boats in the BVI. whilst everyone else got fucked by the economy tanking and many not involved people losing their jobs.

if you do something illegal and make money the government take that money (and waste it), in this instance those who committed the actual crimes were allowed to keep their money.....

There were no crimes committed in general though were there?  Poor risk management, excessive leverage and bad loans for sure. However it's not a crime to be crap at your job.  How aforementioned crap workers get to get massive bonuses because people think it is going well is another matter. 

The government were the ones to unregulate and let them run wild, for a situation to affect so many people detrimentally that just implies there has been a catastrophic failure in our justice system.

They even had messages exchanged on the inter bank systems talking about how toxic and shit they were but how churn rate provided great expectations of bonuses. There should be criminality found somewhere.

Especially when we have 'crimes' for such unaffecting things that disproportionately target the poor. It's a farce.

They are selling securitised debt so of course the more they shift the more they make.  If punters are willing to buy mezz tranches at overvalue in a free market then where is the crime?  The problem happens when you've got retail operations and punto derivatives in the same bank and the new ring fencing rules have put a stop to that.  No idea why it has taken 10 years though.

it's just a freeroll though, sell alot of ticking timebombs profit and leave, shit hits the fan limited claw back occurs. Wait a few years have another form of bubble/scam and rich get richer poor get poorer and yada yada. It's frustrating.

To offer a counter argument if your ordinary joes didn't borrow what they couldn't afford then it never happens.  There are more people being greedy than just the structured credit trading desks.  Mortgage providers.  The borrowers themselves.  Everyone went nuts.