redarmi Staking Issue: Sports betting

[Kmac84]

If you never lend and never stake and trust no one, good luck making friends in this game.

You can sit all alone, perusing your bank statements while the rest of us are out having a beer.

lol, what?

It's a day job, it requires making big decisions.  It has nothing to do with not making friends or drinking beer.   Although I guess I'd be glad not to go for beer with guys I "100 guaranteed won't grim" but then fiddle me and others out of 30k. 

[The Camel]

If you never lend and never stake and trust no one, good luck making friends in this game.

You can sit all alone, perusing your bank statements while the rest of us are out having a beer.

lol, what?

It's a day job, it requires making big decisions.  It has nothing to do with not making friends or drinking beer.   Although I guess I'd be glad not to go for beer with guys I "100 guaranteed won't grim" but then fiddle me and others out of 30k. 

If you don't play for a living, you don't realise how important having friends in the same line is.

Players need emotional as well financial support when times get rough.

If you are stuck in a foreign country with no money and your credit card stops working, what are you going to do?

[arbboy]

If you never lend and never stake and trust no one, good luck making friends in this game.

You can sit all alone, perusing your bank statements while the rest of us are out having a beer.

lol, what?

It's a day job, it requires making big decisions.  It has nothing to do with not making friends or drinking beer.   Although I guess I'd be glad not to go for beer with guys I "100 guaranteed won't grim" but then fiddle me and others out of 30k. 

It's a job, you just summed it up.  It isn't my job, and i don't get paid, to give credit checks on people.  If you want to ask me for free then take what i give you for free and use it.  If you want me to be responsible for my opinion then i will charge you like you do your customers before i take the risk on board.

[JoeBeevers]

FWIW I don't agree that Stu set out to scam or grim at all. Sometimes life gets in the way. I also believe Stu will make whole and not just disappear as others might.

'Vouch' for me comes somewhere between 'giving a reference' and a 'guarantee' with a slight leaning to the reference. Without a guarantee you make your choices and pays your money.

You would do some or any of the three to help a friend out. It's a selfless thing. There doesn't have to be a personal gain to do it.

In the world we (some of us) live in there are always situations where credit is required. It might be that thing called 'life' getting in the way again or it might be a short term thing when away in Vegas or something and it's convenient.

The world some people involved with professional gambling live in is so far unrecognizable from 9 to 5 they can not be compared and it is folly to do so.

[nirvana]

why wouldnt he give that reference with 10 years of unblemished history?

You can't 100% ever guarantee that someone won't grim someone else.   I work in lending and oversee the lending of millions on a daily basis and I'd never ever be put in a position wherebye I would give anyone any money or place 100% trust in anyone repaying 100% of the time and I can use credit referencing, audit bank accounts etc before making a decision.  

It seems two guarantees Arbboy stated have been breached.  Before signing up to this forum I read from afar for a long time, and I have read back through many staking threads and in particular the one involving Blatch and some of the comments Arbboy directed to some people he can't take the moral high ground and call people aftertimimg c***s.  

I can call anyone i want an after timing *****.  Five years ago i told everyone what Blatch was doing weeks before everyone else realised.  Hardly aftertiming.  I saved the same results orientated after timing c***s on this thread 6 figures and not one person, barring Rutter, has ever thanked me in person never mind even bought me a drink.  This forum really is a joke at times.  Numerous others have never admitted to my face they were wrong what they called me at the time etc etc either.  I couldn't give a fuck but please don't call me an aftertimer.

For the record..I was quite supportive of you at the time the site banned you for being far less rude than you are these days. But with time I do find you have more opinions than the average person so dont feel too bad about getting the odd thing wrong
 Its just variance.

[The Camel]

FWIW I don't agree that Stu set out to scam or grim at all. Sometimes life gets in the way. I also believe Stu will make whole and not just disappear as others might.

'Vouch' for me comes somewhere between 'giving a reference' and a 'guarantee' with a slight leaning to the reference. Without a guarantee you make your choices and pays your money.

You would do some or any of the three to help a friend out. It's a selfless thing. There doesn't have to be a personal gain to do it.

In the world we (some of us) live in there are always situations where credit is required. It might be that thing called 'life' getting in the way again or it might be a short term thing when away in Vegas or something and it's convenient.

The world some people involved with professional gambling live in is so far unrecognizable from 9 to 5 they can not be compared and it is folly to do so.

Excellent post Joe.

For someone with a job outside gambling, it's fine not to get involved in lending/borrowing and swapping/buying/selling action.

If you do it for a living, especially if you play live poker. You never know when you might need help urgently. And if you've never been there for someone else in their time of need, well maybe no one will be there for you.

What goes around, comes around.

[JoeBeevers]

Just like to add, I also don't think that Arb has guaranteed the money for Pleno either. Having reread my post, and the chat log, I want to make it clear that is not what I am saying at all.

I believe that it is a different thing saying 'I guarantee he would never grim anyone' and 'I guarantee the money'.

I don't see this situation to be a grim, as far as I understand the word to mean.

The first quote is a reference even though it uses the word guarantee. That would be my ruling anyway if I were TD.

Semantics maybe...

[Ironside]

why wouldnt he give that reference with 10 years of unblemished history?

You can't 100% ever guarantee that someone won't grim someone else.   I work in lending and oversee the lending of millions on a daily basis and I'd never ever be put in a position wherebye I would give anyone any money or place 100% trust in anyone repaying 100% of the time and I can use credit referencing, audit bank accounts etc before making a decision.   

It seems two guarantees Arbboy stated have been breached.  Before signing up to this forum I read from afar for a long time, and I have read back through many staking threads and in particular the one involving Blatch and some of the comments Arbboy directed to some people he can't take the moral high ground and call people aftertimimg c***s.   

I can call anyone i want an after timing *****.  Five years ago i told everyone what Blatch was doing weeks before everyone else realised.  Hardly aftertiming.  I saved the same results orientated after timing c***s on this thread 6 figures and not one person, barring Rutter, has ever thanked me in person never mind even bought me a drink.  This forum really is a joke at times.  Numerous others have never admitted to my face they were wrong what they called me at the time etc etc either.  I couldn't give a fuck but please don't call me an aftertimer.

sorry this is me with personal hat on not a mod and is not linked in anyway with the blonde moderating team

but where do you get off re writing history
2 weeks before blatch stuff came out on the forum people were investigating people knew something was up some just took longer to accept it

you didnt even start with your crap untill it was being dealt with my other members including rookie

all you did was shout you guys have been grimmed (which most of us not involved already knew)
all you was doing was stating the obvious and rubbing peoples noses in it

drop your ego please your not some great hero that discovered a grim ir was already discovered and being dealt with


i do hope that everyone gets there money back and i do hope that stu recovers from this and gets his life back on track

[arbboy]

yet more aftertiming from the masses!  Everyone knew!  Did they fuck.  No one knew.  Stop kidding urself.  It's so easy after the event to say 'i knew' it is a lot harder to stick your balls on the line and say it before the event.  People were still about to invest the day before he was exposed if i hadn't got involved.  Two of them were my mates which was the only reason i even chose to get involved.  What is your reason for getting involved in this thread?

As for starting with my crap i called the guy out as a joker/dreamer a year before blatchgate even started live in person at dtd when i wasn't even a blonde member. 

[Ironside]

arrboy i was told about it and warned not to lend him money or invest while at the blonde bash

you didnt join blonde poker untill well after the bash now shut the feck up

[shipitgood]

good luck to those that are owed money, hopefully there will be some sort of resolution for all concerned.

What struck me when reading the OP was how easily some one would send over a large amount of money with very little, to no, due diligence, mind boggling really. To make a decision that big on the word of one person just defies belief.

Common sense goes a long way.

@Arb, a lot of this has turned on you for responding to a Skype message, obviously there's a lot of history too, which i'm oblivious too, but mate prob best to avoid posting in this thread until it can hopefully be resolved, it'll just go round in circles.

[Ironside]

i am sorry to everyone who have read my posts and sorry arrboy if it sounds like a personally attack

i have a dislike for egos and feel you over play your role in the unmasking of blatch yes you asked the right questions
but in the wrong way and behind the scenes things were already unravelling and you IMHO were making them  harder

i feel for everyone who gets embroiled in a grim if its over money or trust or what ever as i feel bad that you have lost your trust in a friend
and lost some money (no matter how small or big it is too you)

maybe time has played tricks in my head and you were the great knight in shinning armour you claim to be
i know a few poker players in my local casino give me grief all the time about you getting banned

hope everyone gets there money back and i blame my outburst on 5bet shoving QQ into AA when i knew what he had deep in the hotter $5.50

[GreekStein]

Redarmi has always been a good poster and come across as someone I wouldn't have worried about investing in.

It's an unfortunate situation and I believe Pads absolutely did the right thing by posting which didn't have to happen if Redarmi had handled this better.

I have a friend who let me down and himself down harder. He was $120k in debt and cleared the whole thing staying in touch with people he owed money to the whole time and is now one of the best (and richest) online poker players in the world and remains one of my best friends.

Good guys can get themselves into fucked up spots. I've never met redarmi but believe this is what happened here.

I hope he can turn things around.

[MANTIS01]

"That thing called life getting in the way again" sounds like a Frank Sinatra song.

Anyway why does that thing called life stop people replying to emails etc? Or is that a pro gambling thing 9-5 folk wont understand?

[RED-DOG]

This is just my two cents and is not intended as a judgement on anyone.

In my world, (Or in my day, I'm not sure which) if you vouch for someone it is because you trust them implicitly, so much so that you are prepared to honour their debts and as far as possible make good any wrongdoing.  

It's not something that you would do lightly because you are putting your own good name on the line.

Now if someone asks me something like, "What do you think about so and so?" I might say "Yeah, I think he's OK".

That is not a vouch. It is an opinion.

If they say "What do you think of so and so?" and I say, "Yeah, I'll vouch for him". That means his debts, to the person I vouched to only, are my debts.

In my younger days when the world was not quite so PC, a lot of business men would tell you to fuck off if they knew you were a Gypsy, but my name was good everywhere, so I was often asked to vouch. Mostly this was a case of someone rocking up at a business and saying "Tom McCready sent me".

The thing was, I pre warned everyone that unless they heard it from my own mouth, I had not sent them, and therefore, was not responsible for them.

If, on the other hand, I had sent them, they were afforded the same trust as I was. No one cared if they didn't make good because the onus was on me.

What you have to remember is vouching for someone is a big responsibility. It's like going to a loan company and saying "Yes. you can lend him the money and sign me up as guarantor".

Also, remember, asking someone to vouch for you is a big ask. They have to put their good name on the line for you.  

The vouching system is a fantastic tool, and I have benefited from it many times, but for it to work it has to mean something, otherwise it's just a waste of time.