Re-Entry and Late Reg - Your Views please?

[TightEnd]

Rob Yong

" Re-Entry was invented by accident when Simon Trumper played a comp in Vegas, cracked a player who had AA in Level 1, the player received a free-entry into tomorrows tournament as a card room promotion BUT was allowed to enter back into the same tournament by accident......

Late Reg was invented when me and Nick Whiten were 1 minute late for a local tourney in Nottingham and we all know the rest.....

Don't you think its all gone to far now? I am all for travelling to the Isle of Man, busting out Day 1a and having nothing to do all week - so please let me play Day 1B, and I am all for getting stuck in traffic and arriving an hour or so late - so please don't turn me away.....THESE are the reasons we introduced Re-Entry and Late Reg - for the benefit of the travelling players who had booked hotels for a few days or got stuck on the motorway.

Re-Entry and Late Reg now seem to be a way of hitting GTEs and generating extra Reg Fees rather that what DTD invented them for. Players late register and re-enter when 50% of the field is already knocked out, what happened to the good old fashioned feeling of being busting out - and actually being out? Does the guy with 1 bullet have a chance with "highest stack" as opposed to "forfeit stack" - when players who can afford to re-enter can call him on any draw and if they don't hit, just go back down to the cash desk and buy-back in. Do the start of tournaments matter - where is the atmosphere with 20% of the runners there from the start, meeting beforehand to share a drink when we all arrive together? Who cares about the structure of tournaments - players re-entering and registering with 25- 50 BB's brings the average stack right down. Does a satellite player just win a "bullet now" instead of a "seat" in the tournament? Are new players going to think this is how tournament poker has always been? Where is the prestige?

4 years ago I tried to get rid of "Same Day Re-Entry" from DTD tournaments (meaning the last Day 1 was always an old fashioned freeze out), and I lost, players gave me the finger. I tried to reduce late reg - players gave me the finger. It cost me hundreds of thousands, 4 years later, do players still want all this same day re-entry and late reg till next week?

Am I just old fashioned? To be clear, I don't have huge issues with re-entry the next day, that doesn't really effect play + Day 1b then is a freezeout which gives sat qualifiers a better experience - and I would be more inclined to travel to tournaments that allow re-entry next day, I also don't have an issue with a couple of hours late reg for players who are late or don't like to play the early few levels...............BUT that is way different to what is "the norm" now.

I was just sitting here looking as some proposed event schedules and thinking WTF so I thought I would see whether anyone else cared.

Keep The Faith, Rob"

[RED-DOG]

I can live with next day re entry and I have nothing against late reg, but I don't like same day re entry, re buys or add ons.

You can't put someone to a tough decision for his tournament life when he can just walk to the cash desk and buy straight back in.

Smaller guarantees and proper freeze outs for me please.

[Ironside]

I am not likely to ever travel to a multi re entry event just like I was never likely to travel to a rebuy next day re entry seems fine

1-2 hour late reg seems fair enough

[tonytats]

If the buy ins more than £50 I'm never re r entering

[AndrewT]

I don't play poker any more but silly late reg for things was one of the things that put me off.

When it got to the stage of six hours of late reg for a comp it was a joke - that's all about using late reg to compensate for poorly set guarantees. An hour is fine.

Re-entry for a different day feels fine, same day doesn't, even though conceptually there isn't much difference. I suppose it's because different days are satellites to the Day 2 (and there's nothing wrong with playing multiple satellites to things), whereas re-entering on the same day kinda goes against the whole point of a freezeout.

[EvilPie]

I absolutely hate it and it's pretty much ruined tournament poker for me to the point I just don't play any more.

I was a regular at DTD when it was freezeouts but I doubt I'll ever get the buzz back whilst the format stays as it is.

Even throwing in a few freezeouts won't help now as I don't bother looking at the schedules due to assuming that everything's going to be multi entry, re-entry blah blah blah........

I was happy flicking in £300 every month for a chance at £25k but now I feel that I'm at a huge disadvantage unless I've got at least 3 bullets to fire and that's just too much money.

[tikay]

I'm with the moany old buggers above - quite happy to see lower Guarantees & Prize pools, in exchange for more clarity as to late reg & re-entry. 2 or 3 levels of Late Reg is plenty.

Re-entry is a double edged sword, of course, it does add value for all of us. It's not awfully nice though to be sat next to a guy who has the cash for 5 or 6 re-entries sat on the table behind his chips so he can nonchalantly call off light, even though he reps great value. That's not much of a level playing field in my book.

KtF (patent pending)

[tikay]

I absolutely hate it and it's pretty much ruined tournament poker for me to the point I just don't play any more.

I was a regular at DTD when it was freezeouts but I doubt I'll ever get the buzz back whilst the format stays as it is.

Even throwing in a few freezeouts won't help now as I don't bother looking at the schedules due to assuming that everything's going to be multi entry, re-entry blah blah blah........

I was happy flicking in £300 every month for a chance at £25k but now I feel that I'm at a huge disadvantage unless I've got at least 3 bullets to fire and that's just too much money.

It would be horrendously expensive for any stakers you may have, too.

Click to see full-size image.

[arbboy]

I absolutely hate it and it's pretty much ruined tournament poker for me to the point I just don't play any more.

I was a regular at DTD when it was freezeouts but I doubt I'll ever get the buzz back whilst the format stays as it is.

Even throwing in a few freezeouts won't help now as I don't bother looking at the schedules due to assuming that everything's going to be multi entry, re-entry blah blah blah........

I was happy flicking in £300 every month for a chance at £25k but now I feel that I'm at a huge disadvantage unless I've got at least 3 bullets to fire and that's just too much money.

This pretty much sums up my views as well although i don't see the problem with late reg for your first bullet as it only hinders yourself turning up late.  

In addition the major factor which stops me playing now is 20% of the prize pool being converted into seats for much bigger buy in future events which I don't really wish to play for several reasons.  They are outside of my bankroll and i can't afford the ability to re enter like numerous other players can so i am disadvantaged and, secondly, i don't even know when the dates of these future events are and whether i will be able to play them even if i wanted to.  So now when you casually think at 2pm on a Saturday 'let's go and play the £300 deepstack' and jump straight in the car, which i used to do virtually every month for 4 years in the early days, even though i live an hour away, i now have to think 'On the off chance i do cash do i really want to (or date wise can I) play the event cashing in this ties me to in the future/go to the website and see when the event is etc etc?  

Now most months i just choose not to play as I just want to turn up and play poker/gamble and take any winnings home in cash (the same way as i bought into the event).  There is zero flexibility when you 'win' your first seat for future events (even though u have effectively bought  your seat into the future event with your own cash you have won via the prize pool).  I appreciate this helps create bigger prizepools/gtd's etc but, for me, it isn't the product i want so most of the time i choose not to play.

The other really annoying thing is the biggest bubble in the event by far now is the seat bubble on 25 or 50 left and not the actual bubble.  It makes you have to play the event differently once you have reached the cash and turns it much more into survival mode when you are short or semi short even though you have already made the money as the seat bubble £ wise is so big.  Most of the time it feels like you are playing a giant double or nothing on final day before the seat bubble busts due to the value of the seat.

[EvilPie]

I should add that I'm not against late reg at all it's the re-entry during the late reg period that I don't like. Late reg for any more than 1 hour is pushing it as well.

Next day re-entry doesn't bother me too much although when there's about 12 day 1s it becomes ridiculous again.

[smurf]

agree with most of the above...re entry on another day is ok but not a fan of same day re entry.
only ever played a live rebuy and add on tournament once and hated the idea so haven't played one since.

I know the 'seats included' is a road DTD have gone down and fully understand the reasoning but really dislike this aswell and would much prefer the prize pool just be prize winnings.

[Longines]

Andrew nails it for me, everything he said.

[maldini32]

I absolutely hate it and it's pretty much ruined tournament poker for me to the point I just don't play any more.


Even throwing in a few freezeouts won't help now as I don't bother looking at the schedules due to assuming that everything's going to be multi entry, re-entry blah blah blah........

I was happy flicking in £300 every month for a chance at £25k but now I feel that I'm at a huge disadvantage unless I've got at least 3 bullets to fire and that's just too much money.

Agreed

[mumblesrock]

Let me throw another spanner into the works:

 If you hate same day re-entry then you will hate the deal with Bank Roll Supply, effectively giving many players on their books free unlimited re-entry tickets, so that they call you for fun with bottom pair or air and try to bad beat you on every hand. The game has no value to the player who has unlimited re-entries and is effectively free rolling the torney!  So Im not exactly sure why rob has created this discussion thread as he is instrumental in this happening in most of the deep stack torneys, I fully understand the business sense behind the decision - of trying to fill an overlay gap in the prize pool, but it spoils the game for the many who have to put up with horrendous beats month after month and all the while leaving a sour taste in the mouth on every occasion.

I am sure if your are a BRS player then you certainly wont agree with the above, but when you are playing for free then life really is good I suppose!!

Don't shoot the messenger, as I have heard the above expressed by many regular players but I am the person vocalising this and after careful consideration do agree with them.

[Jamier-Host]

Could you get more chips if you're in your seat from the beginning? Or in some other way encourage people to be there from the start, like a reg fee rebate. Pretty sure local comps used to do something like that. That way people feel less like a mug arriving on time and watching half the field waltz in whenever they fancy, cos at least they got a bit of value.

Pretty sure back in the early GUKPT days you'd lose a certain amount off your stack for late entry, although was probably just the equivalent of being blinded out for that period.

Ultimately it is the superior players and the card rooms who benefit most from re-entry, but then most decisions in the industry are made to please those two groups hence the exodus of casual players over the years.