Re-Entry and Late Reg - Your Views please?

[Cf]

I think it's quite cool that DTD have been open enough that people are requesting retro tournaments

[shmeigle]

HI Rob

I have not read many replies on here. I wanted to write my post individually.
Id happily travel the 4hr round trip to play at DTD at least once a week. I don't. Dusk till Dawn offers the best playing experience I know. Iv got the time and money to play at least once a week but I don't. Here are my reasons......in no particular order

1) I STRONGLY disagree with the apportioning of the prizepool. I disagree with it on a few levels.
 a) I think the payout structure is too top heavy. I also believe in paying only 10% of the field. In a multi entry tournament(which is what most are) this should be 10% of unique entries.
     Min cashing should start at 3 x buy-in and work upwards. For the Pokerfest Mini Live that's just finished 1st got 21000 and 9th got 1050. that's a big difference. too big.
     the final 9 were playing for aprox 55k. a payout structure for the final 9 like this would have been much fairer in my opinion.
     9th 3% 8th 4% 7th 5% 6th 6% 5th 8% 4th 10% 3rd 15% 2nd 20% 1st 29%.   These are percentages of the remaining prizepool by the way
 b) If there is a tournament that costs £100 to enter and is guaranteed at 50K and you get 600runners I do not think its fair to take money out of the prizepool and allocate it as seats into your next big game. the prizepool of 60K should be paid out as cash prizes. if on the other hand you only got 400 runners and DTD has to add 10k then by all means add the 10k in as seats into your next big game. its your money and its fair enough.

the way I see it is that we pay dtd reg fee for the purpose of hosting it. dtd also benefit when we spend money in the casino area and buy food and drink. dtd provide guarantees to get more players through your door. that's the marketing strategy. any money in the prizepool generated by entries of players is THE PLAYERS MONEY, unless the tournament fails to hit guarantee.

as for the re-entry and late reg questions
I think a balanced approach works best.
1 re-entry per day. imagine travelling 2hrs and getting busted early. not much fun. having the ability to try again ONCE is fair and doesn't really give anyone with deep pockets too much of an edge.
late reg should be kept to the 1st 2hrs of play. 2hrs is more than enough lee way for motorway mishaps etc. for players who don't like to play the first few levels there are other options. buy in in advance. your stack is live from the get go. turn up anytime you want but your stack will get blinded out.  

[david3103]

HI Rob

I have not read many replies on here. I wanted to write my post individually.
Id happily travel the 4hr round trip to play at DTD at least once a week. I don't. Dusk till Dawn offers the best playing experience I know. Iv got the time and money to play at least once a week but I don't. Here are my reasons......in no particular order

1) I STRONGLY disagree with the apportioning of the prizepool. I disagree with it on a few levels.
 a) I think the payout structure is too top heavy. I also believe in paying only 10% of the field. In a multi entry tournament(which is what most are) this should be 10% of unique entries.
     Min cashing should start at 3 x buy-in and work upwards. For the Pokerfest Mini Live that's just finished 1st got 21000 and 9th got 1050. that's a big difference. too big.
     the final 9 were playing for aprox 55k. a payout structure for the final 9 like this would have been much fairer in my opinion.
     9th 3% 8th 4% 7th 5% 6th 6% 5th 8% 4th 10% 3rd 15% 2nd 20% 1st 29%.   These are percentages of the remaining prizepool by the way
 b) If there is a tournament that costs £100 to enter and is guaranteed at 50K and you get 600runners I do not think its fair to take money out of the prizepool and allocate it as seats into your next big game. the prizepool of 60K should be paid out as cash prizes. if on the other hand you only got 400 runners and DTD has to add 10k then by all means add the 10k in as seats into your next big game. its your money and its fair enough.

the way I see it is that we pay dtd reg fee for the purpose of hosting it. dtd also benefit when we spend money in the casino area and buy food and drink. dtd provide guarantees to get more players through your door. that's the marketing strategy. any money in the prizepool generated by entries of players is THE PLAYERS MONEY, unless the tournament fails to hit guarantee.

as for the re-entry and late reg questions
I think a balanced approach works best.
1 re-entry per day. imagine travelling 2hrs and getting busted early. not much fun. having the ability to try again ONCE is fair and doesn't really give anyone with deep pockets too much of an edge.
late reg should be kept to the 1st 2hrs of play. 2hrs is more than enough lee way for motorway mishaps etc. for players who don't like to play the first few levels there are other options. buy in in advance. your stack is live from the get go. turn up anytime you want but your stack will get blinded out.  

 

[arbboy]

HI Rob

I have not read many replies on here. I wanted to write my post individually.
Id happily travel the 4hr round trip to play at DTD at least once a week. I don't. Dusk till Dawn offers the best playing experience I know. Iv got the time and money to play at least once a week but I don't. Here are my reasons......in no particular order

1) I STRONGLY disagree with the apportioning of the prizepool. I disagree with it on a few levels.
 a) I think the payout structure is too top heavy. I also believe in paying only 10% of the field. In a multi entry tournament(which is what most are) this should be 10% of unique entries.
     Min cashing should start at 3 x buy-in and work upwards. For the Pokerfest Mini Live that's just finished 1st got 21000 and 9th got 1050. that's a big difference. too big.
     the final 9 were playing for aprox 55k. a payout structure for the final 9 like this would have been much fairer in my opinion.
     9th 3% 8th 4% 7th 5% 6th 6% 5th 8% 4th 10% 3rd 15% 2nd 20% 1st 29%.   These are percentages of the remaining prizepool by the way
b) If there is a tournament that costs £100 to enter and is guaranteed at 50K and you get 600runners I do not think its fair to take money out of the prizepool and allocate it as seats into your next big game. the prizepool of 60K should be paid out as cash prizes. if on the other hand you only got 400 runners and DTD has to add 10k then by all means add the 10k in as seats into your next big game. its your money and its fair enough.

the way I see it is that we pay dtd reg fee for the purpose of hosting it. dtd also benefit when we spend money in the casino area and buy food and drink. dtd provide guarantees to get more players through your door. that's the marketing strategy. any money in the prizepool generated by entries of players is THE PLAYERS MONEY, unless the tournament fails to hit guarantee.

as for the re-entry and late reg questions
I think a balanced approach works best.
1 re-entry per day. imagine travelling 2hrs and getting busted early. not much fun. having the ability to try again ONCE is fair and doesn't really give anyone with deep pockets too much of an edge.
late reg should be kept to the 1st 2hrs of play. 2hrs is more than enough lee way for motorway mishaps etc. for players who don't like to play the first few levels there are other options. buy in in advance. your stack is live from the get go. turn up anytime you want but your stack will get blinded out.  

Really like this idea. 

[George2Loose]

Hope all u re entry haters support Dtd next week

http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/blog.php?profile=4&id=524

[TightEnd]

Dusk Till Dawn Live Tournaments Re-Entry & Late Entry Announcement:

Blog Link Here (Please help spread the word to fellow DTD members)
http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/blog.php?profile=4&id=524

As most DTD players know, I am not a fan of same day re-entry, extended late registration and highest stack goes through tournament formats {outside of High Roller tournaments} because I believe these formats;

* create an unlevel playing field for smaller bankrolls and satellite qualifiers

* discourage new players into the game

* increase the crap shoot factor by reducing the average BB of the tournament

* encourage players not well versed in short stack strategy to lose their money quicker

* reduce the integrity of the tournament with players joining when over 50% of the field have already busted

* reduce the integrity of the tournament by encouraging players to spin up a big stack

Therefore, over the coming months, I have instructed DTD to phase out these formats from our live tournament schedules, starting with our regular club schedule and our next 2 major festivals : the Grand Prix and WPT UK.

In the short term, this will make it more 20% more difficult to make our guarantees. We will tweak our regular comps, but we will hold our huge guarantees on major festivals and make up the deficit by qualifying more players on partypoker.

A few years ago, I tried to do this and failed, and DTD reverted back - but I feel we are in much stronger position now with established annual festivals and a better qualification strategy.

Ultimately, this is not a commercial decision, I have not even worked out the maths, this decision is simply about DTD providing poker products that we ourselves can be proud of - we all need to feel good about what we do or what's the point?

I am sure some players will moan, but there is plenty of choice out there with other tours and venues offering same day re-entry and extended late registration and highest stack, so no players will really suffer.

Please Note:

* We will still offer 'limited' late registration for those players that get stuck in traffic, down to 100BBs, so 3 or 4 levels depending on the structure

* In multi-day tournaments will still offer players the option to re-enter into the next Day 1, which means the last Day 1 will always be a complete freezeout

* For some events, such as Grand Prixs, we will offer 2 flights to fit in with players day and night time commitments

Regardless of the short term impact of this strategy this is the direction we are committed to for the long haul.

Keep The Faith Rob

[kinboshi]

Hope all u re entry haters support Dtd next week

http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/blog.php?profile=4&id=524

It will take time though.

A lot of those who have been put off from the re-entry, etc., will not be eagerly watching DTD for an announcement from Rob that things changed. Poker players, especially the "fishy recs", are creatures of habit. Once that habit is changed for whatever reason, it can take a while (if ever) to get it back.

There are lots of recs who have stopped coming, probably also realising that the comps have been costing them more money than they wanted to spend. Getting these back is going to be difficult. Much easier/cheaper keeping an existing customer than attracting a new one or getting an old one back.

Poker players (again I mean the recs) are lazy and want an easy life. Confusing re-entries, stack forfeiting, etc.,  all make it less enticing and possibly to many it seems liked less fun. Rightly or wrongly, many will perceive that there's less value (both short and long-term), sand perception is everything if these recs are going to be coming back time and time again.

Bold move by Rob, but ultimately the right one I feel.

[arbboy]

Hope all u re entry haters support Dtd next week

http://www.dusktilldawnpoker.com/blog.php?profile=4&id=524

It will take time though.

A lot of those who have been put off from the re-entry, etc., will not be eagerly watching DTD for an announcement from Rob that things changed. Poker players, especially the "fishy recs", are creatures of habit. Once that habit is changed for whatever reason, it can take a while (if ever) to get it back.

There are lots of recs who have stopped coming, probably also realising that the comps have been costing them more money than they wanted to spend. Getting these back is going to be difficult. Much easier/cheaper keeping an existing customer than attracting a new one or getting an old one back.

Poker players (again I mean the recs) are lazy and want an easy life. Confusing re-entries, stack forfeiting, etc.,  all make it less enticing and possibly to many it seems liked less fun. Rightly or wrongly, many will perceive that there's less value (both short and long-term), sand perception is everything if these recs are going to be coming back time and time again.

Bold move by Rob, but ultimately the right one I feel.

Has to be good for the cash/table games revenue streams as well for the rest of the business.  Shame nothing has been done about the seats being taken out of the prizepool issue which is the major reason why i don't play much any more. 

[Rexas]

Yh this is fantastic news for the dtd cash games, now they'll start earlier and hopefully more people will give them a go big fan of this change

[HutchGF]

Yh this is fantastic news for the dtd cash games, now they'll start earlier and hopefully more people will give them a go big fan of this change

This, definitely. Will be making a trip up soon for sure.

[RED-DOG]

Yh this is fantastic news for the dtd cash games, now they'll start earlier and hopefully more people will give them a go big fan of this change

This, definitely. Will be making a trip up soon for sure.

This!

[bobAlike]

This is definitely the way forward and totally agree with Arbboy about removing all the seats from the prizepool.

[cambridgealex]

I think that as a whole the recreational players like the added seats thing, and they are undoubtedly good for the economy as a whole. I'm always hearing people telling their mates how they won their seat to x event through y smaller comp, then all their mates ask what's that and want to try and qualify to play it as well. Gets so many people into events they otherwise wouldn't have played and get that experience of playing bigger and more prestigious events like the WPT.

Those bigger events are full of stories about Bob who came 3rd who won his seat through the XXL or whatever. I think they're a win/win.

I do think they need to be carefully marketed though so people don't think they're added to the prizepool, which some people seem to think they are.

[david3103]

Really happy to see the changes.

The issue of seats as part of the prize pool could be resolved pretty simply by making the seats transferable, or usable in any future event. I kind of agree with Arbboy that where the seats have been paid for by the players it is wrong to limit their use to just the one event. Equally, if the seats are effectively paid for by DTD/Party then limitations are less contentious.

Now, where's that Golden Chip?

[ruud]

really positive changes -  will be looking to support over next few weeks/months