En-ger-lund

[Rubbish2407]

Mr Rubbish, you're wide of the mark.

The nation seems to have gone mad this week. We lost to two teams ranked higher than us. Whilst we should have beaten Wales from the position we were in and whilst there are clearly substantial issues to address on and off the field, it's highly questionable as to whether it's as bad as the other two recent, English sporting examples I gave.

Hence, I started a thread to gauge opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.


To address Tighty's point, England drew with Costa Rica, having already been eliminated, but Costa Rica finished top of the group at our (perceived) expense.

Highly questionable?

Surely, seeing as Australia are ranked below Wales, you should have asked - "Is it worse to be knocked out of a World Cup by Australia at rugby, Bangladesh at cricket or Costa Rica at football"?

And in actual fact you're doing Costa Rica a huge disservice as they beat Italy and Uruguay which was something En-ger-lund couldn't manage.

[Tal]

Mr Rubbish, you're wide of the mark.

The nation seems to have gone mad this week. We lost to two teams ranked higher than us. Whilst we should have beaten Wales from the position we were in and whilst there are clearly substantial issues to address on and off the field, it's highly questionable as to whether it's as bad as the other two recent, English sporting examples I gave.

Hence, I started a thread to gauge opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.


To address Tighty's point, England drew with Costa Rica, having already been eliminated, but Costa Rica finished top of the group at our (perceived) expense.

Highly questionable?

Surely, seeing as Australia are ranked below Wales, you should have asked - "Is it worse to be knocked out of a World Cup by Australia at rugby, Bangladesh at cricket or Costa Rica at football"?

Well I could have done, sure. But the hysteria was really from the Wales game, as the reaction from the Australia game has been largely "We were beaten by a much better team", as opposed to "how did we throw that away?"

Ranking alone doesn't determine likelihood of outcome. Unlike the other two, England were at home in both rugby games and were second favourites to win the tournament. Rightly or wrongly.

[Tal]

Mr Rubbish, you're wide of the mark.

The nation seems to have gone mad this week. We lost to two teams ranked higher than us. Whilst we should have beaten Wales from the position we were in and whilst there are clearly substantial issues to address on and off the field, it's highly questionable as to whether it's as bad as the other two recent, English sporting examples I gave.

Hence, I started a thread to gauge opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.


To address Tighty's point, England drew with Costa Rica, having already been eliminated, but Costa Rica finished top of the group at our (perceived) expense.

Highly questionable?

Surely, seeing as Australia are ranked below Wales, you should have asked - "Is it worse to be knocked out of a World Cup by Australia at rugby, Bangladesh at cricket or Costa Rica at football"?

And in actual fact you're doing Costa Rica a huge disservice as they beat Italy and Uruguay which was something En-ger-lund couldn't manage.

And you're not reading what I wrote, so I'm not sure where that leaves us for a debate.

Please don't take offence where it isn't intended to be given. Some of us out there would like a home nation to win the world cup and will be supporting them. Some English people have Welsh, Scottish and Irish blood. Some of us just like seeing northern hemisphere teams doing well.

I'm not really one for starting rucks on this forum. I very much don't intend to start now.

English sport has been awash with failure and perceived underachievement in recent times. All I did was start a comparative thread.

[mulhuzz]

And some of us abhor the ABE approach to sporting events.

[Doobs]

Mr Rubbish, you're wide of the mark.

The nation seems to have gone mad this week. We lost to two teams ranked higher than us. Whilst we should have beaten Wales from the position we were in and whilst there are clearly substantial issues to address on and off the field, it's highly questionable as to whether it's as bad as the other two recent, English sporting examples I gave.

Hence, I started a thread to gauge opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.


To address Tighty's point, England drew with Costa Rica, having already been eliminated, but Costa Rica finished top of the group at our (perceived) expense.

Highly questionable?

Surely, seeing as Australia are ranked below Wales, you should have asked - "Is it worse to be knocked out of a World Cup by Australia at rugby, Bangladesh at cricket or Costa Rica at football"?

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/oct/05/england-drop-eight-world-rankings-following-exit-rugby-world-cup

By the time the tournament kicked off on 18 September, Australia were at No2, England No4 and Wales No5

I think you and Tal are getting confused about how rankings work.

We lost to one team ranked lower than us (Wales), and as a result we fell below them. 

Australia were ranked above us before the tournament began and still will be after they beat us.  I haven't seen current rankings, but suggest it is likely Australia will be back in 2 when they are revised following Saturday's result. 

Australia were best priced 13/10 to beat us, Wales were 3/1. 

[Rubbish2407]

Mr Rubbish, you're wide of the mark.

The nation seems to have gone mad this week. We lost to two teams ranked higher than us. Whilst we should have beaten Wales from the position we were in and whilst there are clearly substantial issues to address on and off the field, it's highly questionable as to whether it's as bad as the other two recent, English sporting examples I gave.

Hence, I started a thread to gauge opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.


To address Tighty's point, England drew with Costa Rica, having already been eliminated, but Costa Rica finished top of the group at our (perceived) expense.

Highly questionable?

Surely, seeing as Australia are ranked below Wales, you should have asked - "Is it worse to be knocked out of a World Cup by Australia at rugby, Bangladesh at cricket or Costa Rica at football"?

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/oct/05/england-drop-eight-world-rankings-following-exit-rugby-world-cup

By the time the tournament kicked off on 18 September, Australia were at No2, England No4 and Wales No5

I think you and Tal are getting confused about how rankings work.

We lost to one team ranked lower than us (Wales), and as a result we fell below them. 

Australia were ranked above us before the tournament began and still will be after they beat us.  I haven't seen current rankings, but suggest it is likely Australia will be back in 2 when they are revised following Saturday's result. 

Australia were best priced 13/10 to beat us, Wales were 3/1. 

My bad, guess we were lucky.

[nirvana]

And some of us abhor the ABE approach to sporting events.

Probably want to find something worth getting all abhorred about

[The Camel]

Seeing as Wales are ranked higher than you in the Rugby I guess it's one of the other two.

And we're actually ranked higher than you in Football as well. Not bad for three Million people. What's England's excuse?

I was going to start a thread regarding this they other day, quite obv the rankings are a joke, and both Wales and England are overrated re the rankings.

But which team realistically will have better prospects next Summer in the Euro's, England I'd say are literally drawing dead and can not win, Wales obv very very unlikely also, but the fact they do have one legit World Class Star in the team means they could always provide a shock, think I'd have more hope as a Welshman than an Englishman next Summer.

That's assuming Bale isn't injured for the rest of the qualifiers otherwise you won't even make it 

Literally drawing dead?  Carlisle drew with Liverpool the other day and the gap between us and Germany is a lot less than the gap between us and Germany is way less than the gap between those two.  One off games can and do produce upsets, other wise betting would be very straight forward. For instance, Bradford City recently got to the league cup final, and we are, and were, a lot worse than Sunderland.

I don't think the rankings are "obviously a joke" either.  Of course the randomness I referred to above can produce odd results, but they simply reflect the performances of England and Wales over recent history.  

I think your view of England is common though, so instead of getting terrible value like you always used to when backing England, you can actually find some decent prices.  

FWIW I have backed England, Wales and Belgium for next year's Euros, all above the current best prices.  

I think Bangladesh is likely worse off the top of my head.  Suspect that must have been bigger than 3/1 (which was the Wales vs Endgland price I think) though can't be sure.

Blimey, that must have taken some foresight. Well done.

[The Camel]

And some of us abhor the ABE approach to sporting events.

I don't really care one way or the other if England sports teams do well or not.

England's most vocal supporters are usually insufferable twats, so it's nice to see them lose.

[maldini32]

I'm really glad the Rugby boys sang they hearts out singing the national anthem.

Cricket world cup capitulation was the worst.

[AlunB]

And some of us abhor the ABE approach to sporting events.

I don't really care one way or the other if England sports teams do well or not.

England's most vocal supporters are usually insufferable twats, so it's nice to see them lose.

At the risk of stirring up bad blood on the thread, this is basically it. In my experience most Welsh people will cheer on the England football team in a major tournament, or at least not actively want them to lose, and obviously cricket they are supporters. The attitude of SOME English rugby fans and indeed some players really really grates. That's what people react to. Is it daft? Yes. But let's face it pretty much every other rugby playing nation feels the same way. Just ask Ali Williams.

Think the Scottish just hate you regardless mind...

[AlunB]

Although that said when it's stripped of humour or context it's ugly and unpleasant.

A large chunk of this current Welsh team is either born in England or has one English parent so think that tones it down a little. I've met plenty of Welsh people who just instinctively hate England. They are also insufferable twats for the most part.

[Karabiner]

Seeing as Wales are ranked higher than you in the Rugby I guess it's one of the other two.

And we're actually ranked higher than you in Football as well. Not bad for three Million people. What's England's excuse?

the virulent anti-English stuff from various other countries whenever England get beaten is extremely tiresome, i have to say

perhaps if the English matched the rabid nonsense emanating from others, they'd get more fired up...

Much like the rabid Wenger-bashing that occurs after every Arsenal defeat.

[superwomble]

And some of us abhor the ABE approach to sporting events.

I don't really care one way or the other if England sports teams do well or not.

England's most vocal supporters are usually insufferable twats, so it's nice to see them lose.

At the risk of stirring up bad blood on the thread, this is basically it. In my experience most Welsh people will cheer on the England football team in a major tournament, or at least not actively want them to lose, and obviously cricket they are supporters. The attitude of SOME English rugby fans and indeed some players really really grates. That's what people react to. Is it daft? Yes. But let's face it pretty much every other rugby playing nation feels the same way. Just ask Ali Williams.

Think the Scottish just hate you regardless mind...

My experience is the complete opposite. I can't think of any Welsh person I've ever met who doesn't want England to lose every game they play, and I used to live in Wales so that's a fair few of them!

[Woodsey]

And some of us abhor the ABE approach to sporting events.

I don't really care one way or the other if England sports teams do well or not.

England's most vocal supporters are usually insufferable twats, so it's nice to see them lose.

At the risk of stirring up bad blood on the thread, this is basically it. In my experience most Welsh people will cheer on the England football team in a major tournament, or at least not actively want them to lose, and obviously cricket they are supporters. The attitude of SOME English rugby fans and indeed some players really really grates. That's what people react to. Is it daft? Yes. But let's face it pretty much every other rugby playing nation feels the same way. Just ask Ali Williams.

Think the Scottish just hate you regardless mind...

My experience is the complete opposite. I can't think of any Welsh person I've ever met who doesn't want England to lose every game they play, and I used to live in Wales so that's a fair few of them!

Same here, they arent as twatish as the Scots about it but they still love to see a good England trouncing!