Euro 2016 thread

[TightEnd]

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[pleno1]

to answer Ray's question, i think he is far too harsh on the fans

Yes there has certainly been an unwarranted sense of entitlement about Egland's prospects for many major championships

and yes we don't have world class players

but finishing second in the group is entirely self-inflicted by the manager

of course this is results orientated, we should have been winning at half time and job done

but he's made six changes when we weren't guaranteed to win the group without a result. I could understand the strikers and could understand both full backs possibly but resting Rooney and Alli seemed a step too far to me

Surely he must have started with a first choice team and then rested players through substitutions if the situation allowed it? the imperative to anyone even with a cursory glance at the draw was to stay out of the bottom half and france/germany/italy

from a broader perspective he's picked two players in Wilshere and Henderson for the squad who are just coming back to fitness. Not a single winger in the squad (Townsend would have presented a very different challenge for Slovakia in the second half).

Compare to France for whom Payet and Kante didn't play qualifying, got picked on 2016 form and have both made a huge difference in the early stages of this championship. Deschamps went for form not reputation.

Wilshere and Henderson played qualifying, Hodgson is stubborn and loyal and picks them on past form and they are both disappointing when required.

As for Barkley, what's he doing in the squad? Awful season, devoid of confidence, Hodgson doesn't see him as an option off the bench even when he is rotating in a third group game.  

I think all of this is the frustration that gets expressed, and you don't need to think that England should be winning the competition or every game to express it. Nor do you need to think that any player isn't giving 100%, clearly they are and its an irrelevance to the complaint. The complaint is with Hodgson. We're average but better tactics and selections would maximise outr chances, such as they are, more

Barkley was in a very poor Everton team and managed 8 goals and 8 assists. His previous season he managed only 2 goals.

Allí managed 10 goals and 9 assists in an exceptional Spurs team.

Lallana 4 goals, 6 assists.

Sterling 6 goals 2 assists.

Its just typical of Englands fans to sum up Barkley as having an "awful season" or lacking in confidence. Sure sometimes his team didn't play well and he didn't have much of the ball, but throughout the season he dominated games and performed statistically better than those who are getting the nod ahead of him.

Theres a lot of players who shouldn't have got in the squad, Barkley for sure wasn't one of them.

I think both he and John Stones are top, top class and will prove it over the next few years.

One of the reasons we didn't pick the Slovakians apart was distribution, Stones would have been a far more assured defensive option and more tactical minded managers would have realised that. Barkley also has the drop of the shoulder in those tight areas and can penetrate and commit players. Not even going to start with Townsend.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3315195/Barcelona-star-Gerard-Pique-picks-world-XI-Everton-s-John-Stones-dream-team-Wayne-Rooney-bench.html

I think this says a lot!

[TightEnd]

but Hodgson chose not to pick Barkley even when he made a raft of changes, or bring him on when needing a goal?. Spoke volumes

i should have clarified. barkley's form dipped dramatically after Xmas. how much is him, how much the team/manager etc...don't know. watched him closely live towards the end of the season and he couldn't have given less of a toss about the game he was playing in.

don't care too much about your arbitrary statistics really. he's a "reputation" pick not a "form" pick.

Stones is classy, but would you be happy if injury meant he was in our back four for a quarter against France? i wouldn't be, might be in 2-3 years when he's been De-Martinezed and properly coached 

[Graham C]

Extremely poor. At least Hodgson won't now have his contract renewed.

He's only one game away from being England's most successful manager since Euro 96.

[Doobs]

to answer Ray's question, i think he is far too harsh on the fans

Yes there has certainly been an unwarranted sense of entitlement about Egland's prospects for many major championships

and yes we don't have world class players

but finishing second in the group is entirely self-inflicted by the manager

of course this is results orientated, we should have been winning at half time and job done

but he's made six changes when we weren't guaranteed to win the group without a result. I could understand the strikers and could understand both full backs possibly but resting Rooney and Alli seemed a step too far to me

Surely he must have started with a first choice team and then rested players through substitutions if the situation allowed it? the imperative to anyone even with a cursory glance at the draw was to stay out of the bottom half and france/germany/italy

from a broader perspective he's picked two players in Wilshere and Henderson for the squad who are just coming back to fitness. Not a single winger in the squad (Townsend would have presented a very different challenge for Slovakia in the second half).

Compare to France for whom Payet and Kante didn't play qualifying, got picked on 2016 form and have both made a huge difference in the early stages of this championship. Deschamps went for form not reputation.

Wilshere and Henderson played qualifying, Hodgson is stubborn and loyal and picks them on past form and they are both disappointing when required.

As for Barkley, what's he doing in the squad? Awful season, devoid of confidence, Hodgson doesn't see him as an option off the bench even when he is rotating in a third group game.  

I think all of this is the frustration that gets expressed, and you don't need to think that England should be winning the competition or every game to express it. Nor do you need to think that any player isn't giving 100%, clearly they are and its an irrelevance to the complaint. The complaint is with Hodgson. We're average but better tactics and selections would maximise outr chances, such as they are, more

Barkley was in a very poor Everton team and managed 8 goals and 8 assists. His previous season he managed only 2 goals.

Allí managed 10 goals and 9 assists in an exceptional Spurs team.

Lallana 4 goals, 6 assists.

Sterling 6 goals 2 assists.

Its just typical of Englands fans to sum up Barkley as having an "awful season" or lacking in confidence. Sure sometimes his team didn't play well and he didn't have much of the ball, but throughout the season he dominated games and performed statistically better than those who are getting the nod ahead of him.

Theres a lot of players who shouldn't have got in the squad, Barkley for sure wasn't one of them.

I think both he and John Stones are top, top class and will prove it over the next few years.

One of the reasons we didn't pick the Slovakians apart was distribution, Stones would have been a far more assured defensive option and more tactical minded managers would have realised that. Barkley also has the drop of the shoulder in those tight areas and can penetrate and commit players. Not even going to start with Townsend.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3315195/Barcelona-star-Gerard-Pique-picks-world-XI-Everton-s-John-Stones-dream-team-Wayne-Rooney-bench.html

I think this says a lot!

That article is from November, which maybe says something you didn't intend. Stones was high up on most people's lists back then.  He may well have a bright future, but he did seem to get worse as the season went on.

I am a bit with Ray on this.  I think we played ok in all 3 games.  In the last game we started with the 2 strikers people were calling for and though I wouldnt have dropped the full backs, but Clyne played very well.  And on the midfielders, I thought Rooney had well, but some had been calling for specialists  and many others had said don't even take him.  Feels like you can't win.

Roy seems to get castigated for both taking no risks (he has the youngest squad here??); and taking too many.  I think we were all over them last night and just got unlucky, as we did vs the Russians.  Either way we are still in and I don't think we are that bad.  We started art 9/1, now we are 10/1 or a bit bigger, so that doesn't suggest a major catastrophe.

I'd much prefer to be in the other half of the draw, but Hungary are pretty bad and Portugal have been worse than us.  I think France are too short in the betting, so even though meeting them so early isn't ideal, I'd much rather face them than Spain.

[mondatoo]

I just think the majority are much keener to pick holes in what he's doing then to praise him.

[TightEnd]

I just think the majority are much keener to pick holes in what he's doing then to praise him.

certainly true, but i don't think its aimed at many (a few, but that will always be the case) of the players.

[DungBeetle]

I just think the majority are much keener to pick holes in what he's doing then to praise him.

I think Hodgson has performed averagely overall.  Good in qualifying, disappointing in major events (so far).  My issue with him is that he constantly talks up the team (and thus his own performance) to the point that some of his post match comments are gibberish (eg Portugal friendly and Costa Rica world cup match).  I find that really off putting.  He's an average manager delivering average performances who talks rubbish in press conferences as far as I am concerned.  

[TightEnd]

England are playing France/Germany/Italy/Spain in the late stages of this knockout comp

we are going to be under the pump for territory and possession

(does Hodgson know his best team?)


what formation and team do you line up with?

[DungBeetle]

I still have hope for when we play the bigger nations as we've got quite a lot of pace.  I just hope Wilshire is not in the team for those games.  We can't afford to have players who are not match fit (as should have been obvious to Hodgson when he picked the squad).

[arbboy]

When was the last time a team at a major championship rested both their clear first choice full backs for a game that wasn't a dead rubber?  Has it ever happened?  Hard to imagine Cashley/Red Nev would have been rested 10 years ago in a game like that.

[mondatoo]

When was the last time a team at a major championship rested both their clear first choice full backs for a game that wasn't a dead rubber?  Has it ever happened?  Hard to imagine Cashley/Red Nev would have been rested 10 years ago in a game like that.

You don't think the difference in quality is much closer than when those 2 played ? Clyne was very good lnite, Bertrand not as impressive but a few on here were saying Bertrand >>>>>> Rose.

[mondatoo]

He guna look like a genius when Wales end up with Croatia in last 16

[DungBeetle]

When was the last time a team at a major championship rested both their clear first choice full backs for a game that wasn't a dead rubber?  Has it ever happened?  Hard to imagine Cashley/Red Nev would have been rested 10 years ago in a game like that.

You don't think the difference in quality is much closer than when those 2 played ? Clyne was very good lnite, Bertrand not as impressive but a few on here were saying Bertrand >>>>>> Rose.

Forster is as good as Hart but we didn't play him.  Surely it's about building momentum and understanding - it's a 7 match tournament not a league season.

Roy did a good illustration just now on what I was talking about his press conferences.  Someone asked about the 6 changes and Roy started banging on about Vardy and Sturridge against Wales.  That's right Roy - the question was really about Vardy and Sturridge as opposed to Wilshire, Henderson and the full backs, but you go ahead and brush your errors under the carpet.

[mondatoo]

99.9% of managers do that though ?