England Cricket chat

[TightEnd]

Keaton Jennings and Liam Dawson called up

[muckthenuts]

Keaton Jennings and Liam Dawson called up

If one journeyman county spinner doesn't work just pluck another out at random. That's sure to be the recipe to success 

[TightEnd]

Keaton Jennings and Liam Dawson called up

If one journeyman county spinner doesn't work just pluck another out at random. That's sure to be the recipe to success 

that's a bit harsh. the whole structure of the English game mitigates against developing big spinners (weather a bit too)

every spinner we have is a journeyman by the standards of Yasir, Ashwin, Herath etc

really you might only point to Lyon, Santner and Bishoo as non-Asian test quality spinners these days and none of them are English.

i agree you might have gone in with two spinners and played the extra seamer instead of as third spinner in India, but i repeat an earlier point..something has gone on with Cook no longer trusting Moeen's off-spin, he has bowled noticeably less in India than Bangladesh

[nellberg]

Keaton Jennings and Liam Dawson called up

If one journeyman county spinner doesn't work just pluck another out at random. That's sure to be the recipe to success 

that's a bit harsh. the whole structure of the English game mitigates against developing big spinners (weather a bit too)

every spinner we have is a journeyman by the standards of Yasir, Ashwin, Herath etc

really you might only point to Lyon, Santner and Bishoo as non-Asian test quality spinners these days and none of them are English.

i agree you might have gone in with two spinners and played the extra seamer instead of as third spinner in India, but i repeat an earlier point..something has gone on with Cook no longer trusting Moeen's off-spin, he has bowled noticeably less in India than Bangladesh

The pitch for the 3rd test looked like a raging turner. Last year at the ground it was wrapped up within 3 days and was turning square on the 1st morning (Dean Elgar took 4 wickets ...). So going with 3 spinners is fine in that case. It turned out to be flat enough, so in hindsight they'd have been better off with the 4th seamer or a batsman.

Even with the benefit of hindsight, what role would Jake Ball have had as the 4th seamer? Stokes was our best seamer, Rashid was much improved, Ball is still 6th in the queue to get a bowl and would have bowled similar amount to Batty. Going 5 bowlers and picking Duckett when he'd been exposed might have set him back, better to take him out of the firing line. Recall ballance? he'd be a walking wicket v Ashwin. Even the Buttler selection was a big risk.

Normally in 6-man attacks the 5th/6th bowlers are top order batsman so if they don't bowl much then it's not as noticeable. It's always going to be an issue if your 3rd spinner bowls less than Moeen (bats 4) or your 4th seamer bowls less than Stokes (bats 6).

We don't have the players to win out in these conditions, there's no shame in that, neither could South Africa last year and Australia certainly won't win in India next spring. We could have made different choices in hindsight (not take Ballance if you're never going to pick him, Billings apparently v.good v spin so give him a go), not take batty (Leach gets mentioned but his own county skipper said he wouldn't be up to it) etc, but these all seem minor points to me and we'd still be getting beat off a better side in these conditions.

[muckthenuts]

That's the thing though. Spin isnt our strength (it is for few teams against India in their own backyard) so where's the logic in picking 3 of them?

You pick 5 bowlers - Anderson, Woakes who'll hit the seam, Stokes who'll hit the deck, Rashid's leggies and Moeen's off breaks. If really necessary you get Root to turn his arm over a bit while the others take a breather. I don't really see what a 6th bowler will bring.

It's a travesty that two supposedly unpickable players are currently with the England squad. But i'd still rather play the extra batsman and ask him to either go and attack/shore up an end rather than waste a spot in the side with Zafar, Batty etc because India aren't necessarily the most confident bowling side. They'll knock about the extra spinner for fun, but if someone is going after them with the bat or doggedly holding up an end that is far more likely to be the difference England are searching for.

To win tests you firstly need to play to your strengths and secondly you need specialists. England selectors have done a terrible job from all angles so far no question, incredibly lucky to be saving some face with 19 year old Hameed.

[TightEnd]

some going

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[vegaslover]

some going

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Awesome going, hellova turnaround from first period playing test match cricket, went away and did the hard yards needed for test cricket. Something for Duckett etc to take on board.

I really didn't think Buttler was much of a risk, yeah he hadn't played much red ball this year but had clearly been in form. Whilst Bairstow is deffo the wickie now, I would give Buttler some glove time in last two tests in India. Bairstow gonna be shot if he spends most the game on the pitch again.

Too late now of course but i. England were happy to take Batty, they should have taken Bell, someone who can actually play spin.

Anyone else see Cook givig up captaincy at end of series, but remaining as opener?

[Woodsey]

some going

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Awesome going, hellova turnaround from first period playing test match cricket, went away and did the hard yards needed for test cricket. Something for Duckett etc to take on board.

I really didn't think Buttler was much of a risk, yeah he hadn't played much red ball this year but had clearly been in form. Whilst Bairstow is deffo the wickie now, I would give Buttler some glove time in last two tests in India. Bairstow gonna be shot if he spends most the game on the pitch again.

Too late now of course but i. England were happy to take Batty, they should have taken Bell, someone who can actually play spin.

Anyone else see Cook givig up captaincy at end of series, but remaining as opener?

There has been rumours about cook reported in the media. The thinking is if this series isn't his last as captain then he will carry on until the series down under next year and then give it up and bat on.

[Tommo]

some going

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I always feel great pride as a Yorkshireman when ever one of our own does well, I think he is a great example of what you can do with hard work and the right attitude, he deserves all the plaudits he is now getting.

[kp24]

Great credit to bairstow gone away and worked at his his game as he said himself still work to do as well especially on his keeping we are spoilt in the wicketkeeper batsman department unlike the spin department as discussed above only plus is there a couple of promising young spinners in county cricket hopefully they willl come through in the future

[TightEnd]

Sigh 230-2 to 249-5

Its already spinning and going through the top. 350 might be a winning score, but got to get there first

[Doobs]

Sigh 230-2 to 249-5

Its already spinning and going through the top. 350 might be a winning score, but got to get there first

Rashid at 5/2 a bet for top England wicket taker?

Edit 1st innings only if not clear

[TightEnd]

Sigh 230-2 to 249-5

Its already spinning and going through the top. 350 might be a winning score, but got to get there first

Rashid at 5/2 a bet for top England wicket taker?

currently a bet in any innings of this series. Could be especially so on this pitch which has spun more on the first day than the previous three pitches in the series

He has 18 wickets in 3 games, next highest is 7

Cook has been bowling Moeen less, the team has dropped the third spinner too. So as long as England don't take early wickets, Rashid should be a good favourite

[Doobs]

Sigh 230-2 to 249-5

Its already spinning and going through the top. 350 might be a winning score, but got to get there first

Rashid at 5/2 a bet for top England wicket taker?

currently a bet in any innings of this series. Could be especially so on this pitch which has spun more on the first day than the previous three pitches in the series

He has 18 wickets in 3 games, next highest is 7

Cook has been bowling Moeen less, the team has dropped the third spinner too. So as long as England don't take early wickets, Rashid should be a good favourite

Cheers.  Hills maxed me at £32. 

[nellberg]

400 should be a winner here if we bowl and catch competently ...