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Author Topic: What do you call yourself, unemployed or self employed?  (Read 12520 times)
arbboy
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« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2016, 10:06:17 PM »

Housewife/husband?

Good idea but most people in this thread are probably not married so would be a lie i suppose.  Maybe similar to retiring in your 30s and not having a pension!
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Doobs
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« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2016, 10:07:52 PM »

Does Sam Tricket insure his car as a Gas Fitter?

All these convoluted attempts at showing a 'respectable' job have the potential to come back and bite you if there is a significant claim.


I doubt it because he isn't a gas fitter anymore.  I am a private fund investment manager which is why i say i am.  Do Subway workers insure their car as a 'Sandwich artist' or whatever stupid title they are given?

You don't need to be able to justify your job title to yourself, you need to be able to show to an insurer/ombudsman/judge that you have not deliberately misled your insurer.  You must know you are sailing close to the wind?  You must realise there is a reasonable chance somebody far removed from the way you earn a living is going to look at it very differently than you do.  

FWIW Investing in shares on the side and trading in them isn't going to cut itt as investment management either.  

I think my test would be do you earn reasonable external income from what you do?  This would be OK even if it wasn't the biggest source of income, just so long as it was significant.  So if you had a few properties, it would be reasonable to call yourself a landlord rather than a poker player.  
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MLHMLH
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« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2016, 10:22:51 PM »

OK just an idea folks, but I am self-employed and registered as such with HMRC (and I pay only £2.50 per week to get my full NI stamp).  I only work part-time and I do admin, accounts and marketing for a couple of small business owners and I work approx 10-15 hours per week on this from home.  So my insurer is told I am self employed, which is true.  However it wouldn't be too difficult to get a group of poker players together, who then set themselves up with HMRC as self-employed and invoice each other for work completed?!  Doesn't have to be admin.  Could be cleaning, gardening, driving etc.  Just a thought. 
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PokerBroker
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« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2016, 10:23:49 PM »

Most general insurers won't cover professional gamblers/bookmakers under standard terms the sameway most life assurance companies won't offer standard cover for someone who regularly participates in dangerous pursuits.  

You can put retired because technically that is the correct answer, but if it comes to light that your car has been maliciously damaged as a result of some form of show boating or 6 bet shoving over some gangster type with 63o then you're not getting paid out.  

It does amuse me Arb that as someone who likes to have a pop at the "chavs" and the others less fortunate that you are verging on insurance fraud.  

It all comes down to is the information you are providing to the insurer in good faith is it information you think they should know about.  

I'd also state there was a difference between online poker player and live player.  

If in doubt speak to the insurance company/broker and let them advise and ask that it is clearly noted that you have made every effort to fully disclose all material facts.  
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arbboy
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« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2016, 10:37:06 PM »

Most general insurers won't cover professional gamblers/bookmakers under standard terms the sameway most life assurance companies won't offer standard cover for someone who regularly participates in dangerous pursuits.  

You can put retired because technically that is the correct answer, but if it comes to light that your car has been maliciously damaged as a result of some form of show boating or 6 bet shoving over some gangster type with 63o then you're not getting paid out.  

It does amuse me Arb that as someone who likes to have a pop at the "chavs" and the others less fortunate that you are verging on insurance fraud.  

It all comes down to is the information you are providing to the insurer in good faith is it information you think they should know about.  

I'd also state there was a difference between online poker player and live player.  

If in doubt speak to the insurance company/broker and let them advise and ask that it is clearly noted that you have made every effort to fully disclose all material facts.  

Glad i still amuse you KMAC always good to know i am doing my job.
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Boba Fett
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« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2016, 10:40:36 PM »

For Car insurance I go with independent Means
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« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2016, 10:44:01 PM »

A fair few pro gamblers/poker players should just say 'unemployable'.  Would be a lot more accurate.

 Cheesy
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RED-DOG
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« Reply #37 on: May 16, 2016, 10:49:19 PM »

I converted a car to a camper but I didn't change anything to do with the structural integrity, suspension, running gear, safety equipment etc. When my insurance asked if there had been any modifications I asked what they classed as modification and was told "Absolutely anything".

So I asked if removing the seats and adding furniture counted. "Yes" (fair enough)

Tinted windows, "Yes"

What if I changed the radio for a better one? "Yes"

Different wiper blades? "Yes"

So I have to tell you if I change my wiper blades? "Yes".

They don't make it easy to be absolutely honest with them. The harder you try the harder it gets.
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EvilPie
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« Reply #38 on: May 16, 2016, 11:02:52 PM »

OK just an idea folks, but I am self-employed and registered as such with HMRC (and I pay only £2.50 per week to get my full NI stamp).  I only work part-time and I do admin, accounts and marketing for a couple of small business owners and I work approx 10-15 hours per week on this from home.  So my insurer is told I am self employed, which is true.  However it wouldn't be too difficult to get a group of poker players together, who then set themselves up with HMRC as self-employed and invoice each other for work completed?!  Doesn't have to be admin.  Could be cleaning, gardening, driving etc.  Just a thought. 

Nice. We've now gone from insurance fraud to full on tax fraud.

Where will it end?
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MLHMLH
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« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2016, 12:29:43 AM »

OK just an idea folks, but I am self-employed and registered as such with HMRC (and I pay only £2.50 per week to get my full NI stamp).  I only work part-time and I do admin, accounts and marketing for a couple of small business owners and I work approx 10-15 hours per week on this from home.  So my insurer is told I am self employed, which is true.  However it wouldn't be too difficult to get a group of poker players together, who then set themselves up with HMRC as self-employed and invoice each other for work completed?!  Doesn't have to be admin.  Could be cleaning, gardening, driving etc.  Just a thought. 

Nice. We've now gone from insurance fraud to full on tax fraud.

Where will it end?


How is it tax fraud?  I work for 2 people who own small businesses on a freelance basis, therefore I am classed as self-employed.  I haven't suggested anyone commits tax fraud.  If people have certain skills and can do work for each other, they can quite legitimately invoice each other for the work carried out.  They likely wouldn't earn more than the personal tax allowance in any given year, so there is no tax to pay anyway.  No tax fraud here.
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doubleup
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« Reply #40 on: May 17, 2016, 10:54:44 AM »


It is an extremely grey area.  Gambling in the UK isn't a trade, profession or vocation so you could argue that unemployed/retired is the correct answer (while providing the additional information that you make some money playing cards/sports betting).

As several have said, if you give them a chance to void the policy they will do it and omitting information that they will claim affects the premium is an open goal.
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bobAlike
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« Reply #41 on: May 17, 2016, 11:16:29 AM »

My wifes car got stolen 5 years ago and the game we had with the insurance company was ridiculous. They were trying their level best not to pay just because my wife works one day in one location and 2 days in another. She put on her policy that she uses the car to commute to work. They tried to say she was using the car for business purposes. The car was actually stolen from home.

It took 4 months to get paid out and this was for only 18k.
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« Reply #42 on: May 17, 2016, 11:35:13 AM »

My wifes car got stolen 5 years ago and the game we had with the insurance company was ridiculous. They were trying their level best not to pay just because my wife works one day in one location and 2 days in another. She put on her policy that she uses the car to commute to work. They tried to say she was using the car for business purposes. The car was actually stolen from home.

It took 4 months to get paid out and this was for only 18k.

At my last renewal I rang my existing insurer and told them that I was now self-employed and although I worked from home, I occasionally had to travel to my client's business addresses to collect paperwork etc.  They amended my policy from Social, Domestic & Pleasure (inc commuting) to Social, Domestic, Pleasure and Business.  I was expecting the price to go up, however it stayed exactly the same.
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EvilPie
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« Reply #43 on: May 17, 2016, 12:07:40 PM »

OK just an idea folks, but I am self-employed and registered as such with HMRC (and I pay only £2.50 per week to get my full NI stamp).  I only work part-time and I do admin, accounts and marketing for a couple of small business owners and I work approx 10-15 hours per week on this from home.  So my insurer is told I am self employed, which is true.  However it wouldn't be too difficult to get a group of poker players together, who then set themselves up with HMRC as self-employed and invoice each other for work completed?!  Doesn't have to be admin.  Could be cleaning, gardening, driving etc.  Just a thought. 

Nice. We've now gone from insurance fraud to full on tax fraud.

Where will it end?


How is it tax fraud?  I work for 2 people who own small businesses on a freelance basis, therefore I am classed as self-employed.  I haven't suggested anyone commits tax fraud.  If people have certain skills and can do work for each other, they can quite legitimately invoice each other for the work carried out.  They likely wouldn't earn more than the personal tax allowance in any given year, so there is no tax to pay anyway.  No tax fraud here.

Well yeah if they actually do the work of course it's fine.

Sounded to me like you were suggesting they set up a (fake) company purely for the purpose of submitting (fake) invoices to each other so that they could claim they had a job. You also suggested registering the company with HMRC (the tax people).

I'm not saying anybody is ever going to find out because they're not but to do one slightly iffy thing to make something else a bit iffy seem less iffy doesn't really solve the problem it just moves it.


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MLHMLH
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« Reply #44 on: May 17, 2016, 12:47:20 PM »

OK just an idea folks, but I am self-employed and registered as such with HMRC (and I pay only £2.50 per week to get my full NI stamp).  I only work part-time and I do admin, accounts and marketing for a couple of small business owners and I work approx 10-15 hours per week on this from home.  So my insurer is told I am self employed, which is true.  However it wouldn't be too difficult to get a group of poker players together, who then set themselves up with HMRC as self-employed and invoice each other for work completed?!  Doesn't have to be admin.  Could be cleaning, gardening, driving etc.  Just a thought. 

Nice. We've now gone from insurance fraud to full on tax fraud.

Where will it end?


How is it tax fraud?  I work for 2 people who own small businesses on a freelance basis, therefore I am classed as self-employed.  I haven't suggested anyone commits tax fraud.  If people have certain skills and can do work for each other, they can quite legitimately invoice each other for the work carried out.  They likely wouldn't earn more than the personal tax allowance in any given year, so there is no tax to pay anyway.  No tax fraud here.

Well yeah if they actually do the work of course it's fine.

Sounded to me like you were suggesting they set up a (fake) company purely for the purpose of submitting (fake) invoices to each other so that they could claim they had a job. You also suggested registering the company with HMRC (the tax people).

I'm not saying anybody is ever going to find out because they're not but to do one slightly iffy thing to make something else a bit iffy seem less iffy doesn't really solve the problem it just moves it.




If you're self-employed and only work part-time (as I do) there is no point setting up a company. You simply ring HMRC and tell them you are self-employed.  They will ask you when you started your self-employment and the nature of your business.  You could be a driver, a cleaner, a consultant, a driver, a personal trainer, a life coach and you only have to work part time in order to be classed as self-employed.  You don't need a company to be self-employed.  You are effectively a sole trader.  There's nothing fake about it.  You then provide services to your clients, send them an invoice and receive payment.  You can then pay £2.80 per week Class 2 NI to get your stamp and you can tell your bank and your insurance companies that you are self-employed.  The only down side is that you will have to do a self assessment tax return each year. 

I'm not saying it would be right for everyone but it's something to think about perhaps for some people on here.

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