Martin McGuinness

[tikay]

Mr McGuniness has passed away.

How would we judge him, in the final analysis? Good man, bad man, both, neither?

[Ironside]

bad man, even on his death bed hasnt given peace of mind to the families of people he killed and had killed and whose bodies havent been recovered

[TightEnd]

first and foremost a murderous terrorist, who ultimately became a "man of peace"

but its not a binary answer, i suppose the answer is "both"

i was at school with William Tebbit during the Brighton bombings and afterwards saw the dreadful impact on the family. this morning his dad said "McGuinness only sought peace because he was a coward and murderer who feared arrest for personally killing people."

The courage of Martin McGuinness's victims talking today of forgiveness because they welcome peace is tremendous

kmac can come on later and say he's a hero and all that guff.not for me

[AndrewT]

It is a prickly subject because, yes he's been getting praise for giving up violence and helping bring peace in NI but the fact is (and this is a point that I've not seen raised today in tributes, for obvious reasons) that without the decades of shootings and bombing campaigns there would be no power-sharing in NI, the Unionists would still have the whip hand - Sinn Fein had to use the IRA to get the UK government to be even interested in changing the status quo in NI.

Violence worked in NI and there would have been no change in the everyday lives of Catholics in NI without it, as unpalatable as that is for people to swallow.

[Doobs]

It is a prickly subject because, yes he's been getting praise for giving up violence and helping bring peace in NI but the fact is (and this is a point that I've not seen raised today in tributes, for obvious reasons) that without the decades of shootings and bombing campaigns there would be no power-sharing in NI, the Unionists would still have the whip hand - Sinn Fein had to use the IRA to get the UK government to be even interested in changing the status quo in NI.

Violence worked in NI and there would have been no change in the everyday lives of Catholics in NI without it, as unpalatable as that is for people to swallow.

And non violence worked in Scotland? 

We can only view one path for each situation, so we have no idea what would have happened if the SNP were the terrorists and the IRA were the men of peace. 

To suggest that change could only have happened with violence is absurd.

[doubleup]

And non violence worked in Scotland? 

We can only view one path for each situation, so we have no idea what would have happened if the SNP were the terrorists and the IRA were the men of peace. 

To suggest that change could only have happened with violence is absurd.

Not really a good analogy.  NI was a constructed state and constructed to give one culture a majority.  That majority manifestly oppressed the minority.

[Woodsey]

Seen comments posted in other places by Celtic supporter types along the lines of RIP you did your country a great service.....

[celtic]

first and foremost a murderous terrorist, who ultimately became a "man of peace"

but its not a binary answer, i suppose the answer is "both"

i was at school with William Tebbit during the Brighton bombings and afterwards saw the dreadful impact on the family. this morning his dad said "McGuinness only sought peace because he was a coward and murderer who feared arrest for personally killing people."

The courage of Martin McGuinness's victims talking today of forgiveness because they welcome peace is tremendous

kmac can come on later and say he's a hero and all that guff.not for me

Tebbit was one of the biggest racists in British politics. I wouldn't worry about him too much if I was you.

[celtic]

Seen comments posted in other places by Celtic supporter types along the lines of RIP you did your country a great service.....

He probably did do his country a good service, I don't really know too much about, it's not my thing. What exactly is a Celtic supporter type? I think you'll find some 'Celtic supporter types' won't consider him a hero.

[celtic]

http://news.sky.com/story/brighton-bombing-victim-lord-tebbit-wishes-mcguinness-an-eternity-in-hell-10809470

Classy.

[Woodsey]

Seen comments posted in other places by Celtic supporter types along the lines of RIP you did your country a great service.....

He probably did do his country a good service, I don't really know too much about, it's not my thing. What exactly is a Celtic supporter type? I think you'll find some 'Celtic supporter types' won't consider him a hero.

No idea, I don't really understand half of it to be honest. All I know a few Celtic supporters were giving him the nod and some of the Rangers crew were blasting them for saying it.......argument then ensued.

[bobby1]

And non violence worked in Scotland? 

We can only view one path for each situation, so we have no idea what would have happened if the SNP were the terrorists and the IRA were the men of peace. 

To suggest that change could only have happened with violence is absurd.

Not really a good analogy.  NI was a constructed state and constructed to give one culture a majority.  That majority manifestly oppressed the minority.

A similar situation to South Africa many years ago. And yet Nelson Mandela thoroughly liked and respected by a huge majority of British people and around the world even tho his ascent to the pinnacle of politics in his country and peace within his country followed the same path as Mcguiness.

[FUN4FRASER]

http://news.sky.com/story/brighton-bombing-victim-lord-tebbit-wishes-mcguinness-an-eternity-in-hell-10809470

Classy.

An IRA bomb nearly took his life so probably a tad bitter.

[Micko]

Martin McGuinness grew up in the Bogside in Derry, the British army shot and murdered many of his friends and IMO he done what many would of done, fought back through joining the IRA. It was a dirty war, many innocent people killed on both sides of the community.

For the last 20 years he has fought tirelessly for peace and played a huge part in the Good Friday agreement, he also shook the hand of the Queen which as a republican was a huge deal but he knew it was a statement of change and peace.

I for one believe he is and will be a huge loss for the island of Ireland.

Ian Paisley JR was asked today about Martin !McGuinness and summed it up well when he finished with "it's not how you start out in life it's how you end it that matters.

RIP Martin.

[Mohican]

The murder of a 6 month old because her Dad was an RAF Corporal happened  23 days after I joined the RAF myself. Martin McGuinness, as second in command of the IRA, was directly responsible for the death of Nivruti and her Dad, Mick Islania. He also has the blood on his hands of anyone else murdered by the IRA. HIs being involved in the peace process is more likely due to the waning popularity of the IRA and their methods at the time and a need to capitalise politically  on that position than a desire for peace. The man is a mass murderer by any definition and deserves none of the praise being heaped on him. I'm angry sitting here typing this at all the bullshit being said about him on mainstream news channels. I won't have the news on in my house now for fear of me putting my foot through the tv when that calculating and systematic killers face appears on there.Wish I could join the 2 Para boys for a drop of this tonight.

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