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Author Topic: Official cryptocurrency thread (Bitcoin, Ethereum, Altcoin)  (Read 302138 times)
Longines
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« Reply #1020 on: May 31, 2018, 10:33:04 PM »

People that create complex software where it is absolutely imperative that everything is open to scrutiny such as the air industry, NASA, self driving cars etc will be using linux. BTW cash machines still use windows XL.

Quote

Not the case I'm afraid. The National Air Traffic Service is largely Windows, I was part of a team that pitched for it a couple of years back. Yes, large parts of the web server landscape are running open source stuff but decades after it was introduced the proprietary, commercial, non-free stuff is still running virtually everything.

And why would ATM manufacturers and banks choose to pay for XP Embedded licences if the open source alternative was better and free? Clue, it's neither better or free.

PS I totally agree that blockchain is going to be as transformative as the WWW, just don't think cryptos will be.

*Puffs cheeks* I'm gonna do my best to explain why this isn't the case another time. A blockchain on it's own doesn't mean much, it's just a ledger and isn't immutable. I have said it time and time again but immutability is the greatest asset to bitcoin.

Maybe it's because I work in enterprise tech but blockchain is going to be huge. Whatever the market cap of crypto is now, stick a couple of zeros on the end. The entire business world runs on ledgers. You would not believe the amount of time and money that is spent getting data out of one system and into another. The amount of manual intervention required to get a transaction from one company to another and have that acknowledged/actioned is unreal. Related to this, I'm sure I saw an infographic the other day that said 80% of the careers our grandkids will have, haven't been invented yet.

It'd going to be interesting.
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lucky_scrote
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« Reply #1021 on: June 11, 2018, 10:27:54 PM »


PS I totally agree that blockchain is going to be as transformative as the WWW, just don't think cryptos will be.

*Puffs cheeks* I'm gonna do my best to explain why this isn't the case another time. A blockchain on it's own doesn't mean much, it's just a ledger and isn't immutable. I have said it time and time again but immutability is the greatest asset to bitcoin.

I was originally planning on giving a technical explanation on this and was struggling because a) I'm not a crypto guru and b) Trying to explain very new technologies to people that are only at the beginning stages of development is a difficult task (see point A).

This is at least the 3rd time in this thread that I've seen such a comment and I think it's a pretty popular one just because people have heard it from other people (that's normal).

Why do blockchains not work without bitcoin or an intrinsic valuable asset?

  • A blockchain as a strutcure is a very inefficient structure that is used purely for decentralisation
  • In order to achieve decentralisation you need to validate transactions without giving a person or party the power of the network
  • To achieve validation you need a consensus algorithm that depends on competition (Proof of work, proof of stake)
  • For competition you need risk and reward
  • In order to have a reward that is meaningful, you need an intrinsic token that people want.
  • If you don't have something of value, the competition is defunct
  • Without basis of competition you don't have security
  • Without security you have to control validation centrally
  • Without decentralisation there is no point in a blockchain, a traditional ledger is much more efficient

I want to say that this explanation is mine, but I have to credit Andreas Antonopoulos who seems to have a knack for explaining things.
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« Reply #1022 on: June 28, 2018, 08:26:01 AM »

Due to some weird security checks on coinbase they wouldn't let me transfer all of what I wanted out of the site for 72 hours.

I don't suppose anyone can sell me about 20£ worth of BTC within the next few hours please? Thanks! I'll send bank xfer first ldo lolol
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« Reply #1023 on: July 01, 2018, 09:36:17 AM »

!

'Bitcoin has fallen to its lowest point since November and will probably be totally wiped out'

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bitcoin-latest-price-concurrency-money-exchange-rate-analysis-a8424651.html
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« Reply #1024 on: July 01, 2018, 01:55:53 PM »

Might just about be the most ill informed and nonsense article I have read on Bitcoin- and it's 2018. The comments are actually more sensical.

Stick it on the Bitcoin obituary with the rest. https://99bitcoins.com/obituary-stats/
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« Reply #1025 on: July 01, 2018, 04:26:53 PM »

As a business, I can accept Bitcoin and Litecoin payments with a fee of less than 1% with no risk of chargebacks and have the money in my account the same day. Banks and PayPal charge around 3% plus 20p, plus monthly fees, plus chargebacks etc.  and I have to wait up to 5 working days. Over the year this really adds up and we're talking £1,000's of savings, which is money I can invest back into my business. With so much pressure on businesses these days, it's the little things like this that can make a big difference. I would encourage other businesses to look into this for themselves.



The first comment on that article made more sense than the rest of it
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Jon MW
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« Reply #1026 on: July 01, 2018, 05:24:47 PM »

As a business, I can accept Bitcoin and Litecoin payments with a fee of less than 1% with no risk of chargebacks and have the money in my account the same day. Banks and PayPal charge around 3% plus 20p, plus monthly fees, plus chargebacks etc.  and I have to wait up to 5 working days. Over the year this really adds up and we're talking £1,000's of savings, which is money I can invest back into my business. With so much pressure on businesses these days, it's the little things like this that can make a big difference. I would encourage other businesses to look into this for themselves.
..

And in a months time that Bitcoin payment could be worth 1/2 the value of what was paid for or twice it's value.

Is there a record anywhere of the actual value of transactions in Bitcoins? i.e. how much people are actually using it to pay for things rather than as an investment?

FWIW I agree the article itself was pretty awful.
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« Reply #1027 on: July 01, 2018, 09:59:40 PM »

As a business, I can accept Bitcoin and Litecoin payments with a fee of less than 1% with no risk of chargebacks and have the money in my account the same day. Banks and PayPal charge around 3% plus 20p, plus monthly fees, plus chargebacks etc.  and I have to wait up to 5 working days. Over the year this really adds up and we're talking £1,000's of savings, which is money I can invest back into my business. With so much pressure on businesses these days, it's the little things like this that can make a big difference. I would encourage other businesses to look into this for themselves.
..

And in a months time that Bitcoin payment could be worth 1/2 the value of what was paid for or twice it's value.

Is there a record anywhere of the actual value of transactions in Bitcoins? i.e. how much people are actually using it to pay for things rather than as an investment?

FWIW I agree the article itself was pretty awful.

Yep unless the retailer is willing to be a currency speculator that option (despite the cost/time savings) is not viable currently.
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« Reply #1028 on: July 01, 2018, 11:21:56 PM »

Bitcoin just doesn't qualify as a good short term store of value. Currently if you are a merchant of some sort that will be holding onto your crypto for only a month at a time and you're surviving month to month you just can't justify using it. There aren't really any answers to this right now, Bitcoin can't solve everything. Two things worth noting however, fiat backed currencies are a tragic long term store of value. Most of them offer a very secure long term store of value despite an almost guarantee of them losing value year in year out. Even then, fiat backed currencies have a history of failing- luckily everyone reading this forum haven't had to deal with a failed government or hyperinflation. Secondly is the volatility.

The volatility of Bitcoin is probably due to two factors. It is a completely speculative asset for a lot of people, it's currently an asset for the majority since most people aren't actually spending many of their cryptocurrencies but holding them due to their perceived value. The bull run we saw last year was unprecedented for most people on this forum despite the same thing happening already many times before (at least 4 or 5). When the hype dies down each time (like we are seeing in the last couple of months) the network becomes more resilient, infrastructure is improved and merchants/exchanges are much more prepared for the next wave of people (and it is 100% coming). On each new run it begins with new people entering the cryptosphere with the price being driven up at an outrageous rate. There is a lot of disagreement with what a bitcoin is worth and I believe a lot of people get caught up with what a bitcoin could/should/will be worth- I was definitely one of these people  . The value of a bitcoin can/will/should be determined by the amount of people who understand in the value of the lack of a mediator in monetary transactions and how Bitcoin has the capability to take over how we think about and treat money. Currently bitcoin has a very low market cap relative to fiat currencies and more commonly known trusted assets like gold. Compared to fiat it's literally a splash in the ocean.

I think it's important to understand that the price of a bitcoin doesn't reflect the cost of a transaction on the network, or the security of the network, or the infrastructure around the network. Each day, improvements are made to the network, more merchants are accepting bitcoin, more people are paying in bitcoin and more people are being paid in bitcoin.

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« Reply #1029 on: July 02, 2018, 06:26:49 AM »

...more merchants are accepting bitcoin, more people are paying in bitcoin and more people are being paid in bitcoin.



Like I said - is there a record of this anywhere?

I would have thought this record of transactions, of bitcoin being used to pay for things, is the best indicator of how successful it's actually doing (rather than it's speculative value).
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« Reply #1030 on: July 02, 2018, 12:31:18 PM »

...more merchants are accepting bitcoin, more people are paying in bitcoin and more people are being paid in bitcoin.



Like I said - is there a record of this anywhere?

I would have thought this record of transactions, of bitcoin being used to pay for things, is the best indicator of how successful it's actually doing (rather than it's speculative value).

Mostly my own experience. I do part time work for a bitcoin merchant company and an ico startup in Nijmegen, Netherlands and see it for myself. I get paid in bitcoin. At the Bitcoin merchant company they have 33 staff members of which when asked if they would like their salary partially paid in bitcoin- 33 obliged.

I will keep looking for more records of OTC transactions, but my neighbouring city Arnhem has taken the initiative on accepting bitcoin at several places such as cafes, restaurants, leisure centres, dentists, diy shops, bars, clothes shops, supermarkets, hotels, theaters. The list goes on.

Here is a map of the current places in Arnhem you can pay with Bitcoin.

 Click to see full-size image.


I think what is impressive to me is that we have a network that was created with one of it's main function to transfer value to one another as a complete test just 9 years ago and yet here we are already. It was only a year ago that most people had ever heard of Bitcoin.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 12:33:26 PM by lucky_scrote » Logged

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« Reply #1031 on: July 04, 2018, 06:08:02 PM »

...more merchants are accepting bitcoin, more people are paying in bitcoin and more people are being paid in bitcoin.



Like I said - is there a record of this anywhere?

I would have thought this record of transactions, of bitcoin being used to pay for things, is the best indicator of how successful it's actually doing (rather than it's speculative value).

Mostly my own experience. I do part time work for a bitcoin merchant company and an ico startup in Nijmegen, Netherlands and see it for myself. I get paid in bitcoin. At the Bitcoin merchant company they have 33 staff members of which when asked if they would like their salary partially paid in bitcoin- 33 obliged.

I will keep looking for more records of OTC transactions, but my neighbouring city Arnhem has taken the initiative on accepting bitcoin at several places such as cafes, restaurants, leisure centres, dentists, diy shops, bars, clothes shops, supermarkets, hotels, theaters. The list goes on.

Here is a map of the current places in Arnhem you can pay with Bitcoin.

 Click to see full-size image.


I think what is impressive to me is that we have a network that was created with one of it's main function to transfer value to one another as a complete test just 9 years ago and yet here we are already. It was only a year ago that most people had ever heard of Bitcoin.

Using Arnhem as an example is lame imo. Pull off a map of London, and show how you can live day to day ie eat, travel and pay bills using bitcoin.

The answer is you can't. Bitcoin is still a niche currency, my sister owns a children's bookshop in Crouch End, she won't touch bitcoin with a bargepole because it gives her business no cashflow stability. She is exactly the sort of person who needs to adopt bitcoin, for it to succeed across the world.
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« Reply #1032 on: July 04, 2018, 06:32:29 PM »

...more merchants are accepting bitcoin, more people are paying in bitcoin and more people are being paid in bitcoin.



Like I said - is there a record of this anywhere?

I would have thought this record of transactions, of bitcoin being used to pay for things, is the best indicator of how successful it's actually doing (rather than it's speculative value).

Mostly my own experience. I do part time work for a bitcoin merchant company and an ico startup in Nijmegen, Netherlands and see it for myself. I get paid in bitcoin. At the Bitcoin merchant company they have 33 staff members of which when asked if they would like their salary partially paid in bitcoin- 33 obliged.

I will keep looking for more records of OTC transactions, but my neighbouring city Arnhem has taken the initiative on accepting bitcoin at several places such as cafes, restaurants, leisure centres, dentists, diy shops, bars, clothes shops, supermarkets, hotels, theaters. The list goes on.

Here is a map of the current places in Arnhem you can pay with Bitcoin.

 Click to see full-size image.


I think what is impressive to me is that we have a network that was created with one of it's main function to transfer value to one another as a complete test just 9 years ago and yet here we are already. It was only a year ago that most people had ever heard of Bitcoin.

Using Arnhem as an example is lame imo. Pull off a map of London, and show how you can live day to day ie eat, travel and pay bills using bitcoin.

The answer is you can't. Bitcoin is still a niche currency, my sister owns a children's bookshop in Crouch End, she won't touch bitcoin with a bargepole because it gives her business no cashflow stability. She is exactly the sort of person who needs to adopt bitcoin, for it to succeed across the world.


No disrespect to your sister's bookshop, but suspect that you need amazon, apple, banks and supermarkets.  I don't take it for my business only, banks seem quick, cheaper and less risky than bitcoin to me.  Dare say that this bit of news makes no difference to the success of Bitcoin or whatever the next big thing is.
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« Reply #1033 on: July 04, 2018, 07:37:29 PM »

...more merchants are accepting bitcoin, more people are paying in bitcoin and more people are being paid in bitcoin.



Like I said - is there a record of this anywhere?

I would have thought this record of transactions, of bitcoin being used to pay for things, is the best indicator of how successful it's actually doing (rather than it's speculative value).

Mostly my own experience. I do part time work for a bitcoin merchant company and an ico startup in Nijmegen, Netherlands and see it for myself. I get paid in bitcoin. At the Bitcoin merchant company they have 33 staff members of which when asked if they would like their salary partially paid in bitcoin- 33 obliged.

I will keep looking for more records of OTC transactions, but my neighbouring city Arnhem has taken the initiative on accepting bitcoin at several places such as cafes, restaurants, leisure centres, dentists, diy shops, bars, clothes shops, supermarkets, hotels, theaters. The list goes on.

Here is a map of the current places in Arnhem you can pay with Bitcoin.

 Click to see full-size image.


I think what is impressive to me is that we have a network that was created with one of it's main function to transfer value to one another as a complete test just 9 years ago and yet here we are already. It was only a year ago that most people had ever heard of Bitcoin.

Using Arnhem as an example is lame imo. Pull off a map of London, and show how you can live day to day ie eat, travel and pay bills using bitcoin.

The answer is you can't. Bitcoin is still a niche currency, my sister owns a children's bookshop in Crouch End, she won't touch bitcoin with a bargepole because it gives her business no cashflow stability. She is exactly the sort of person who needs to adopt bitcoin, for it to succeed across the world.


No disrespect to your sister's bookshop, but suspect that you need amazon, apple, banks and supermarkets.  I don't take it for my business only, banks seem quick, cheaper and less risky than bitcoin to me.  Dare say that this bit of news makes no difference to the success of Bitcoin or whatever the next big thing is.

I see where you are coming from but Bitcoin and other currencies are supposed to be a threat to big business (banking, retailing etc). If they are to be successful with mainstream adoption they will have to start with a bottom-up approach, otherwise, all they are doing is lining the pockets of big corporations. Libertarians would be on the side of the independent bookshop versus the likes of Waterstones or Amazon, even though a lot of their principles are constantly contradicted when cryptocurrencies are concerned.
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« Reply #1034 on: July 04, 2018, 10:13:50 PM »

Bitcoin was an experiment that one guy thought up 9 years ago. It is only really in the last year or two that there has been a vast increase in adoption.

Saying that there needs to be bookshops across the globe accepting bitcoin for it to be successful is lame.

@Doobs I agree that banks seem cheap, quick and less easy but remember that you are living in the United Kingdom. We are blessed with governments and banking systems that haven't failed for quite a long time.

It is free and fast to send a bank transfer to someone in the same country as yourself, but beyond that bitcoin is much better. It is virtually free to make a transaction, it takes 10 minutes and it is much more secure.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2018, 10:39:42 PM by lucky_scrote » Logged

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