Official cryptocurrency thread (Bitcoin, Ethereum, Altcoin)

[rfgqqabc]

It could definitely end in tears, yes. I am aware of that myself, the future is often unknown.

Each day that passes new businesses and services are trying to implement bitcoin, this is going to increase the value of it. It's not like it's been mainstream for 20 years, it's still a relatively new technology and the fact that a lot of people and businesses are trying to learn, own and implement crypto/bitcoin is making it more valuable.

One way you have to think about it is that there are a lot of nay-sayers with crypto. It's natural because there are a lot of negative things happening and a lot of it is not understood. On the other side of the coin you have people who don't have a clue about it and are greedy trying to just make a quick buck. Well, the truth is despite the increase in price of crypto over time, a lot of people haven't made money. People who are greedy are often very panicky and the amount of people trying to make short term trades unsuccessfully is staggering. Not to mention the people throwing unfathomable amounts of money at new coins without a contract involved or having a clue what is going on.

The greed, panic and nay-sayers is what is keeping the price where it is (low, imo of course). I don't expect prices to hit an all time high for a very long time and I think people who are smart and in it for the long run will reap the rewards.

So I am going to sell you an apple today at 27x the price it was in January. Would you say that apple was good value? What has changed to ETH that makes it worth that much more today? How is it the market cap of ETH is the same or similar to that of Citi Corp, one of the biggest banks in the world.

Cryptos are ridiculously overvalued, it's nothing to do with the technology it's market sentiment. For many months off the back of a tide of ICOs followed by new investors seeing cryptos as a get rick quick scheme, the price of every coin has exponentially rallied. This is 97-99 all over again. In history every asset class that has got ahead of itself has come crashing back to earth with a bump.

The fact that cryptos are now mainstream (regularly featured on Bloomberg TV) and the man in the street is starting to take interest should worry anyone that invests in this space. As I mentioned previously George Soros and his cronies have been shorting cryptos recently. You can't fight the institutions remember the UK government tried in 1992 and failed, so what chance has anyone else.

  

Could you source the soros claim?

[rfgqqabc]

Seems like something you might say if you were having an ICO

Why would someone who wanted to sell something destroy their credibility so spectacularly?

Its just marketing. He claimed he'd eat his own dick on tv too. He's a little larger than life. Take the last line of the bbc article.

http://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/news/bitcoin-will-move-500000-within-three-years-predicts-john-mcafee/

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40517417

[acegooner]

It could definitely end in tears, yes. I am aware of that myself, the future is often unknown.

Each day that passes new businesses and services are trying to implement bitcoin, this is going to increase the value of it. It's not like it's been mainstream for 20 years, it's still a relatively new technology and the fact that a lot of people and businesses are trying to learn, own and implement crypto/bitcoin is making it more valuable.

One way you have to think about it is that there are a lot of nay-sayers with crypto. It's natural because there are a lot of negative things happening and a lot of it is not understood. On the other side of the coin you have people who don't have a clue about it and are greedy trying to just make a quick buck. Well, the truth is despite the increase in price of crypto over time, a lot of people haven't made money. People who are greedy are often very panicky and the amount of people trying to make short term trades unsuccessfully is staggering. Not to mention the people throwing unfathomable amounts of money at new coins without a contract involved or having a clue what is going on.

The greed, panic and nay-sayers is what is keeping the price where it is (low, imo of course). I don't expect prices to hit an all time high for a very long time and I think people who are smart and in it for the long run will reap the rewards.

So I am going to sell you an apple today at 27x the price it was in January. Would you say that apple was good value? What has changed to ETH that makes it worth that much more today? How is it the market cap of ETH is the same or similar to that of Citi Corp, one of the biggest banks in the world.

Cryptos are ridiculously overvalued, it's nothing to do with the technology it's market sentiment. For many months off the back of a tide of ICOs followed by new investors seeing cryptos as a get rick quick scheme, the price of every coin has exponentially rallied. This is 97-99 all over again. In history every asset class that has got ahead of itself has come crashing back to earth with a bump.

The fact that cryptos are now mainstream (regularly featured on Bloomberg TV) and the man in the street is starting to take interest should worry anyone that invests in this space. As I mentioned previously George Soros and his cronies have been shorting cryptos recently. You can't fight the institutions remember the UK government tried in 1992 and failed, so what chance has anyone else.

  

Could you source the soros claim?

http://cryptowhat.com/soros-the-enemy-of-freedom-and-his-attempt-to-destroy-bitcoin-and-our-plan-to-profit-off-his-back/

I read something more concrete than this in a financial publication a few weeks back, but can't find the link. Regardless, forget about Soros. Hedge fund managers circle around anything they think is overvalued and use shorting strategies to make money for their clients.

The problem with crypto currencies is they operate in a completely unregulated environment, so if institutional investors decide to attack BTC, ETH or any other coin there is nothing the authorities can/will do to stop this. It's already happened over the last 3 weeks with brutal consequences for anyone that bought in June.

As someone who has worked in the investment world for many years, I see this as almost a replication of what happened to tech in 97-99 when anything and everything soared in value much in the same way as cryptos did. Then between 2001-03 the house of cards fell down and nearly every tech stock good or bad fell at least 90%.

There are a lot of younger investors getting into cryptos, people are borrowing money to buy cryptos and this is classic bubble territory behaviour. Pure greed before the inevitable.


 

[acegooner]

It could definitely end in tears, yes. I am aware of that myself, the future is often unknown.

Each day that passes new businesses and services are trying to implement bitcoin, this is going to increase the value of it. It's not like it's been mainstream for 20 years, it's still a relatively new technology and the fact that a lot of people and businesses are trying to learn, own and implement crypto/bitcoin is making it more valuable.

One way you have to think about it is that there are a lot of nay-sayers with crypto. It's natural because there are a lot of negative things happening and a lot of it is not understood. On the other side of the coin you have people who don't have a clue about it and are greedy trying to just make a quick buck. Well, the truth is despite the increase in price of crypto over time, a lot of people haven't made money. People who are greedy are often very panicky and the amount of people trying to make short term trades unsuccessfully is staggering. Not to mention the people throwing unfathomable amounts of money at new coins without a contract involved or having a clue what is going on.

The greed, panic and nay-sayers is what is keeping the price where it is (low, imo of course). I don't expect prices to hit an all time high for a very long time and I think people who are smart and in it for the long run will reap the rewards.

So I am going to sell you an apple today at 27x the price it was in January. Would you say that apple was good value? What has changed to ETH that makes it worth that much more today? How is it the market cap of ETH is the same or similar to that of Citi Corp, one of the biggest banks in the world.

Cryptos are ridiculously overvalued, it's nothing to do with the technology it's market sentiment. For many months off the back of a tide of ICOs followed by new investors seeing cryptos as a get rick quick scheme, the price of every coin has exponentially rallied. This is 97-99 all over again. In history every asset class that has got ahead of itself has come crashing back to earth with a bump.

The fact that cryptos are now mainstream (regularly featured on Bloomberg TV) and the man in the street is starting to take interest should worry anyone that invests in this space. As I mentioned previously George Soros and his cronies have been shorting cryptos recently. You can't fight the institutions remember the UK government tried in 1992 and failed, so what chance has anyone else.

  

Could you source the soros claim?

http://cryptowhat.com/soros-the-enemy-of-freedom-and-his-attempt-to-destroy-bitcoin-and-our-plan-to-profit-off-his-back/

I read something more concrete than this in a financial publication a few weeks back, but can't find the link. Regardless, forget about Soros. Hedge fund managers circle around anything they think is overvalued and use shorting strategies to make money for their clients.

The problem with crypto currencies is they operate in a completely unregulated environment, so if institutional investors decide to attack BTC, ETH or any other coin there is nothing the authorities can/will do to stop this. It's already happened over the last 3 weeks with brutal consequences for anyone that bought in June.

As someone who has worked in the investment world for many years, I see this as almost a replication of what happened to tech in 97-99 when anything and everything soared in value much in the same way as cryptos has. Then between 2001-03 the house of cards fell down and nearly every tech stock good or bad fell at least 90%.

There are a lot of younger investors getting into cryptos, people are borrowing money to buy cryptos and this is classic bubble territory behaviour. Pure greed before the inevitable.


 

[DungBeetle]

It could definitely end in tears, yes. I am aware of that myself, the future is often unknown.

Each day that passes new businesses and services are trying to implement bitcoin, this is going to increase the value of it. It's not like it's been mainstream for 20 years, it's still a relatively new technology and the fact that a lot of people and businesses are trying to learn, own and implement crypto/bitcoin is making it more valuable.

One way you have to think about it is that there are a lot of nay-sayers with crypto. It's natural because there are a lot of negative things happening and a lot of it is not understood. On the other side of the coin you have people who don't have a clue about it and are greedy trying to just make a quick buck. Well, the truth is despite the increase in price of crypto over time, a lot of people haven't made money. People who are greedy are often very panicky and the amount of people trying to make short term trades unsuccessfully is staggering. Not to mention the people throwing unfathomable amounts of money at new coins without a contract involved or having a clue what is going on.

The greed, panic and nay-sayers is what is keeping the price where it is (low, imo of course). I don't expect prices to hit an all time high for a very long time and I think people who are smart and in it for the long run will reap the rewards.

So I am going to sell you an apple today at 27x the price it was in January. Would you say that apple was good value? What has changed to ETH that makes it worth that much more today? How is it the market cap of ETH is the same or similar to that of Citi Corp, one of the biggest banks in the world.

Cryptos are ridiculously overvalued, it's nothing to do with the technology it's market sentiment. For many months off the back of a tide of ICOs followed by new investors seeing cryptos as a get rick quick scheme, the price of every coin has exponentially rallied. This is 97-99 all over again. In history every asset class that has got ahead of itself has come crashing back to earth with a bump.

The fact that cryptos are now mainstream (regularly featured on Bloomberg TV) and the man in the street is starting to take interest should worry anyone that invests in this space. As I mentioned previously George Soros and his cronies have been shorting cryptos recently. You can't fight the institutions remember the UK government tried in 1992 and failed, so what chance has anyone else.

  

Could you source the soros claim?

http://cryptowhat.com/soros-the-enemy-of-freedom-and-his-attempt-to-destroy-bitcoin-and-our-plan-to-profit-off-his-back/

I read something more concrete than this in a financial publication a few weeks back, but can't find the link. Regardless, forget about Soros. Hedge fund managers circle around anything they think is overvalued and use shorting strategies to make money for their clients.

The problem with crypto currencies is they operate in a completely unregulated environment, so if institutional investors decide to attack BTC, ETH or any other coin there is nothing the authorities can/will do to stop this. It's already happened over the last 3 weeks with brutal consequences for anyone that bought in June.

As someone who has worked in the investment world for many years, I see this as almost a replication of what happened to tech in 97-99 when anything and everything soared in value much in the same way as cryptos did. Then between 2001-03 the house of cards fell down and nearly every tech stock good or bad fell at least 90%.

There are a lot of younger investors getting into cryptos, people are borrowing money to buy cryptos and this is classic bubble territory behaviour. Pure greed before the inevitable.


 

How do you short bitcoin?  Presumably there is no stock borrow market for it?  Or is there a futures market in bitcoin now?

[acegooner]

It could definitely end in tears, yes. I am aware of that myself, the future is often unknown.

Each day that passes new businesses and services are trying to implement bitcoin, this is going to increase the value of it. It's not like it's been mainstream for 20 years, it's still a relatively new technology and the fact that a lot of people and businesses are trying to learn, own and implement crypto/bitcoin is making it more valuable.

One way you have to think about it is that there are a lot of nay-sayers with crypto. It's natural because there are a lot of negative things happening and a lot of it is not understood. On the other side of the coin you have people who don't have a clue about it and are greedy trying to just make a quick buck. Well, the truth is despite the increase in price of crypto over time, a lot of people haven't made money. People who are greedy are often very panicky and the amount of people trying to make short term trades unsuccessfully is staggering. Not to mention the people throwing unfathomable amounts of money at new coins without a contract involved or having a clue what is going on.

The greed, panic and nay-sayers is what is keeping the price where it is (low, imo of course). I don't expect prices to hit an all time high for a very long time and I think people who are smart and in it for the long run will reap the rewards.

So I am going to sell you an apple today at 27x the price it was in January. Would you say that apple was good value? What has changed to ETH that makes it worth that much more today? How is it the market cap of ETH is the same or similar to that of Citi Corp, one of the biggest banks in the world.

Cryptos are ridiculously overvalued, it's nothing to do with the technology it's market sentiment. For many months off the back of a tide of ICOs followed by new investors seeing cryptos as a get rick quick scheme, the price of every coin has exponentially rallied. This is 97-99 all over again. In history every asset class that has got ahead of itself has come crashing back to earth with a bump.

The fact that cryptos are now mainstream (regularly featured on Bloomberg TV) and the man in the street is starting to take interest should worry anyone that invests in this space. As I mentioned previously George Soros and his cronies have been shorting cryptos recently. You can't fight the institutions remember the UK government tried in 1992 and failed, so what chance has anyone else.

  

Could you source the soros claim?

http://cryptowhat.com/soros-the-enemy-of-freedom-and-his-attempt-to-destroy-bitcoin-and-our-plan-to-profit-off-his-back/

I read something more concrete than this in a financial publication a few weeks back, but can't find the link. Regardless, forget about Soros. Hedge fund managers circle around anything they think is overvalued and use shorting strategies to make money for their clients.

The problem with crypto currencies is they operate in a completely unregulated environment, so if institutional investors decide to attack BTC, ETH or any other coin there is nothing the authorities can/will do to stop this. It's already happened over the last 3 weeks with brutal consequences for anyone that bought in June.

As someone who has worked in the investment world for many years, I see this as almost a replication of what happened to tech in 97-99 when anything and everything soared in value much in the same way as cryptos did. Then between 2001-03 the house of cards fell down and nearly every tech stock good or bad fell at least 90%.

There are a lot of younger investors getting into cryptos, people are borrowing money to buy cryptos and this is classic bubble territory behaviour. Pure greed before the inevitable.


 

How do you short bitcoin?  Presumably there is no stock borrow market for it?  Or is there a futures market in bitcoin now?

You can trade CFDs to short BTC and ETH for sure. I am not sure about other coins, but the prices are quite closely correlated. If the main crypto's tank, usually all the others follow suit.

[DungBeetle]

It could definitely end in tears, yes. I am aware of that myself, the future is often unknown.

Each day that passes new businesses and services are trying to implement bitcoin, this is going to increase the value of it. It's not like it's been mainstream for 20 years, it's still a relatively new technology and the fact that a lot of people and businesses are trying to learn, own and implement crypto/bitcoin is making it more valuable.

One way you have to think about it is that there are a lot of nay-sayers with crypto. It's natural because there are a lot of negative things happening and a lot of it is not understood. On the other side of the coin you have people who don't have a clue about it and are greedy trying to just make a quick buck. Well, the truth is despite the increase in price of crypto over time, a lot of people haven't made money. People who are greedy are often very panicky and the amount of people trying to make short term trades unsuccessfully is staggering. Not to mention the people throwing unfathomable amounts of money at new coins without a contract involved or having a clue what is going on.

The greed, panic and nay-sayers is what is keeping the price where it is (low, imo of course). I don't expect prices to hit an all time high for a very long time and I think people who are smart and in it for the long run will reap the rewards.

So I am going to sell you an apple today at 27x the price it was in January. Would you say that apple was good value? What has changed to ETH that makes it worth that much more today? How is it the market cap of ETH is the same or similar to that of Citi Corp, one of the biggest banks in the world.

Cryptos are ridiculously overvalued, it's nothing to do with the technology it's market sentiment. For many months off the back of a tide of ICOs followed by new investors seeing cryptos as a get rick quick scheme, the price of every coin has exponentially rallied. This is 97-99 all over again. In history every asset class that has got ahead of itself has come crashing back to earth with a bump.

The fact that cryptos are now mainstream (regularly featured on Bloomberg TV) and the man in the street is starting to take interest should worry anyone that invests in this space. As I mentioned previously George Soros and his cronies have been shorting cryptos recently. You can't fight the institutions remember the UK government tried in 1992 and failed, so what chance has anyone else.

  

Could you source the soros claim?

http://cryptowhat.com/soros-the-enemy-of-freedom-and-his-attempt-to-destroy-bitcoin-and-our-plan-to-profit-off-his-back/

I read something more concrete than this in a financial publication a few weeks back, but can't find the link. Regardless, forget about Soros. Hedge fund managers circle around anything they think is overvalued and use shorting strategies to make money for their clients.

The problem with crypto currencies is they operate in a completely unregulated environment, so if institutional investors decide to attack BTC, ETH or any other coin there is nothing the authorities can/will do to stop this. It's already happened over the last 3 weeks with brutal consequences for anyone that bought in June.

As someone who has worked in the investment world for many years, I see this as almost a replication of what happened to tech in 97-99 when anything and everything soared in value much in the same way as cryptos did. Then between 2001-03 the house of cards fell down and nearly every tech stock good or bad fell at least 90%.

There are a lot of younger investors getting into cryptos, people are borrowing money to buy cryptos and this is classic bubble territory behaviour. Pure greed before the inevitable.


 

How do you short bitcoin?  Presumably there is no stock borrow market for it?  Or is there a futures market in bitcoin now?

You can trade CFDs to short BTC and ETH for sure. I am not sure about other coins, but the prices are quite closely correlated. If the main crypto's tank, usually all the others follow suit.

Okay cheers.  Had no idea it was possible.  Will look into it.

[Doobs]

It could definitely end in tears, yes. I am aware of that myself, the future is often unknown.

Each day that passes new businesses and services are trying to implement bitcoin, this is going to increase the value of it. It's not like it's been mainstream for 20 years, it's still a relatively new technology and the fact that a lot of people and businesses are trying to learn, own and implement crypto/bitcoin is making it more valuable.

One way you have to think about it is that there are a lot of nay-sayers with crypto. It's natural because there are a lot of negative things happening and a lot of it is not understood. On the other side of the coin you have people who don't have a clue about it and are greedy trying to just make a quick buck. Well, the truth is despite the increase in price of crypto over time, a lot of people haven't made money. People who are greedy are often very panicky and the amount of people trying to make short term trades unsuccessfully is staggering. Not to mention the people throwing unfathomable amounts of money at new coins without a contract involved or having a clue what is going on.

The greed, panic and nay-sayers is what is keeping the price where it is (low, imo of course). I don't expect prices to hit an all time high for a very long time and I think people who are smart and in it for the long run will reap the rewards.

So I am going to sell you an apple today at 27x the price it was in January. Would you say that apple was good value? What has changed to ETH that makes it worth that much more today? How is it the market cap of ETH is the same or similar to that of Citi Corp, one of the biggest banks in the world.

Cryptos are ridiculously overvalued, it's nothing to do with the technology it's market sentiment. For many months off the back of a tide of ICOs followed by new investors seeing cryptos as a get rick quick scheme, the price of every coin has exponentially rallied. This is 97-99 all over again. In history every asset class that has got ahead of itself has come crashing back to earth with a bump.

The fact that cryptos are now mainstream (regularly featured on Bloomberg TV) and the man in the street is starting to take interest should worry anyone that invests in this space. As I mentioned previously George Soros and his cronies have been shorting cryptos recently. You can't fight the institutions remember the UK government tried in 1992 and failed, so what chance has anyone else.

  

Could you source the soros claim?

http://cryptowhat.com/soros-the-enemy-of-freedom-and-his-attempt-to-destroy-bitcoin-and-our-plan-to-profit-off-his-back/

I read something more concrete than this in a financial publication a few weeks back, but can't find the link. Regardless, forget about Soros. Hedge fund managers circle around anything they think is overvalued and use shorting strategies to make money for their clients.

The problem with crypto currencies is they operate in a completely unregulated environment, so if institutional investors decide to attack BTC, ETH or any other coin there is nothing the authorities can/will do to stop this. It's already happened over the last 3 weeks with brutal consequences for anyone that bought in June.

As someone who has worked in the investment world for many years, I see this as almost a replication of what happened to tech in 97-99 when anything and everything soared in value much in the same way as cryptos did. Then between 2001-03 the house of cards fell down and nearly every tech stock good or bad fell at least 90%.

There are a lot of younger investors getting into cryptos, people are borrowing money to buy cryptos and this is classic bubble territory behaviour. Pure greed before the inevitable.


 

How do you short bitcoin?  Presumably there is no stock borrow market for it?  Or is there a futures market in bitcoin now?

You can trade CFDs to short BTC and ETH for sure. I am not sure about other coins, but the prices are quite closely correlated. If the main crypto's tank, usually all the others follow suit.

Okay cheers.  Had no idea it was possible.  Will look into it.

The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.

I am a veteran of shorting the tech bubble.  Shorting is brutal at times, things can easily get to multiples of 20 a more times the underlying value.  If you start at 5x the real value and there is a lot of pain before you are proved right.  I am guessing a lot of these coins are even more volatile, and ofc you may not be right.

[acegooner]

It could definitely end in tears, yes. I am aware of that myself, the future is often unknown.

Each day that passes new businesses and services are trying to implement bitcoin, this is going to increase the value of it. It's not like it's been mainstream for 20 years, it's still a relatively new technology and the fact that a lot of people and businesses are trying to learn, own and implement crypto/bitcoin is making it more valuable.

One way you have to think about it is that there are a lot of nay-sayers with crypto. It's natural because there are a lot of negative things happening and a lot of it is not understood. On the other side of the coin you have people who don't have a clue about it and are greedy trying to just make a quick buck. Well, the truth is despite the increase in price of crypto over time, a lot of people haven't made money. People who are greedy are often very panicky and the amount of people trying to make short term trades unsuccessfully is staggering. Not to mention the people throwing unfathomable amounts of money at new coins without a contract involved or having a clue what is going on.

The greed, panic and nay-sayers is what is keeping the price where it is (low, imo of course). I don't expect prices to hit an all time high for a very long time and I think people who are smart and in it for the long run will reap the rewards.

So I am going to sell you an apple today at 27x the price it was in January. Would you say that apple was good value? What has changed to ETH that makes it worth that much more today? How is it the market cap of ETH is the same or similar to that of Citi Corp, one of the biggest banks in the world.

Cryptos are ridiculously overvalued, it's nothing to do with the technology it's market sentiment. For many months off the back of a tide of ICOs followed by new investors seeing cryptos as a get rick quick scheme, the price of every coin has exponentially rallied. This is 97-99 all over again. In history every asset class that has got ahead of itself has come crashing back to earth with a bump.

The fact that cryptos are now mainstream (regularly featured on Bloomberg TV) and the man in the street is starting to take interest should worry anyone that invests in this space. As I mentioned previously George Soros and his cronies have been shorting cryptos recently. You can't fight the institutions remember the UK government tried in 1992 and failed, so what chance has anyone else.

  

Could you source the soros claim?

http://cryptowhat.com/soros-the-enemy-of-freedom-and-his-attempt-to-destroy-bitcoin-and-our-plan-to-profit-off-his-back/

I read something more concrete than this in a financial publication a few weeks back, but can't find the link. Regardless, forget about Soros. Hedge fund managers circle around anything they think is overvalued and use shorting strategies to make money for their clients.

The problem with crypto currencies is they operate in a completely unregulated environment, so if institutional investors decide to attack BTC, ETH or any other coin there is nothing the authorities can/will do to stop this. It's already happened over the last 3 weeks with brutal consequences for anyone that bought in June.

As someone who has worked in the investment world for many years, I see this as almost a replication of what happened to tech in 97-99 when anything and everything soared in value much in the same way as cryptos did. Then between 2001-03 the house of cards fell down and nearly every tech stock good or bad fell at least 90%.

There are a lot of younger investors getting into cryptos, people are borrowing money to buy cryptos and this is classic bubble territory behaviour. Pure greed before the inevitable.


 

How do you short bitcoin?  Presumably there is no stock borrow market for it?  Or is there a futures market in bitcoin now?

You can trade CFDs to short BTC and ETH for sure. I am not sure about other coins, but the prices are quite closely correlated. If the main crypto's tank, usually all the others follow suit.

Okay cheers.  Had no idea it was possible.  Will look into it.

The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.

I am a veteran of shorting the tech bubble.  Shorting is brutal at times, things can easily get to multiples of 20 a more times the underlying value.  If you start at 5x the real value and there is a lot of pain before you are proved right.  I am guessing a lot of these coins are even more volatile, and ofc you may not be right.

Survival of the fittest. I think Soros and most hedge fund managers pockets are deep enough to weather market turbulence either way.

Soros made £1bn in 1992 shorting the £. I am sure that in todays money that would be more than the current inflated value of ETH. It's small fry. 

[Doobs]

It could definitely end in tears, yes. I am aware of that myself, the future is often unknown.

Each day that passes new businesses and services are trying to implement bitcoin, this is going to increase the value of it. It's not like it's been mainstream for 20 years, it's still a relatively new technology and the fact that a lot of people and businesses are trying to learn, own and implement crypto/bitcoin is making it more valuable.

One way you have to think about it is that there are a lot of nay-sayers with crypto. It's natural because there are a lot of negative things happening and a lot of it is not understood. On the other side of the coin you have people who don't have a clue about it and are greedy trying to just make a quick buck. Well, the truth is despite the increase in price of crypto over time, a lot of people haven't made money. People who are greedy are often very panicky and the amount of people trying to make short term trades unsuccessfully is staggering. Not to mention the people throwing unfathomable amounts of money at new coins without a contract involved or having a clue what is going on.

The greed, panic and nay-sayers is what is keeping the price where it is (low, imo of course). I don't expect prices to hit an all time high for a very long time and I think people who are smart and in it for the long run will reap the rewards.

So I am going to sell you an apple today at 27x the price it was in January. Would you say that apple was good value? What has changed to ETH that makes it worth that much more today? How is it the market cap of ETH is the same or similar to that of Citi Corp, one of the biggest banks in the world.

Cryptos are ridiculously overvalued, it's nothing to do with the technology it's market sentiment. For many months off the back of a tide of ICOs followed by new investors seeing cryptos as a get rick quick scheme, the price of every coin has exponentially rallied. This is 97-99 all over again. In history every asset class that has got ahead of itself has come crashing back to earth with a bump.

The fact that cryptos are now mainstream (regularly featured on Bloomberg TV) and the man in the street is starting to take interest should worry anyone that invests in this space. As I mentioned previously George Soros and his cronies have been shorting cryptos recently. You can't fight the institutions remember the UK government tried in 1992 and failed, so what chance has anyone else.

  

Could you source the soros claim?

http://cryptowhat.com/soros-the-enemy-of-freedom-and-his-attempt-to-destroy-bitcoin-and-our-plan-to-profit-off-his-back/

I read something more concrete than this in a financial publication a few weeks back, but can't find the link. Regardless, forget about Soros. Hedge fund managers circle around anything they think is overvalued and use shorting strategies to make money for their clients.

The problem with crypto currencies is they operate in a completely unregulated environment, so if institutional investors decide to attack BTC, ETH or any other coin there is nothing the authorities can/will do to stop this. It's already happened over the last 3 weeks with brutal consequences for anyone that bought in June.

As someone who has worked in the investment world for many years, I see this as almost a replication of what happened to tech in 97-99 when anything and everything soared in value much in the same way as cryptos did. Then between 2001-03 the house of cards fell down and nearly every tech stock good or bad fell at least 90%.

There are a lot of younger investors getting into cryptos, people are borrowing money to buy cryptos and this is classic bubble territory behaviour. Pure greed before the inevitable.


 

How do you short bitcoin?  Presumably there is no stock borrow market for it?  Or is there a futures market in bitcoin now?

You can trade CFDs to short BTC and ETH for sure. I am not sure about other coins, but the prices are quite closely correlated. If the main crypto's tank, usually all the others follow suit.

Okay cheers.  Had no idea it was possible.  Will look into it.

The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.

I am a veteran of shorting the tech bubble.  Shorting is brutal at times, things can easily get to multiples of 20 a more times the underlying value.  If you start at 5x the real value and there is a lot of pain before you are proved right.  I am guessing a lot of these coins are even more volatile, and ofc you may not be right.

Survival of the fittest. I think Soros and most hedge fund managers pockets are deep enough to weather market turbulence either way.

Soros made £1bn in 1992 shorting the £. I am sure that in todays money that would be more than the current inflated value of ETH. It's small fry. 

I am not an idiot. 

There is a huge difference between shorting sterling and shorting ETH or tech stocks.  The volatility of ETH is many multiples higher.   Sterling is never ever moving to $10 from here in a couple of months.  ETH could be worth 10 x as much or 10% of today's figure.  You want to short that on margin good luck to you.  You can easily get wiped out shorting something that is worth 10% of its current value in a couple of years.  I know many people who made and lost huge money in the tech boom and its aftermath. 

Been there, done that, it is brutal.  I was a winner, I wouldn't do it again.  There is no upper bound to a short.  There is no upper bound to your margin payments.  And if the market gets very volatile, you may get closed before you can make a margin payment. 

Good luck to those who short. 

[rfgqqabc]

It could definitely end in tears, yes. I am aware of that myself, the future is often unknown.

Each day that passes new businesses and services are trying to implement bitcoin, this is going to increase the value of it. It's not like it's been mainstream for 20 years, it's still a relatively new technology and the fact that a lot of people and businesses are trying to learn, own and implement crypto/bitcoin is making it more valuable.

One way you have to think about it is that there are a lot of nay-sayers with crypto. It's natural because there are a lot of negative things happening and a lot of it is not understood. On the other side of the coin you have people who don't have a clue about it and are greedy trying to just make a quick buck. Well, the truth is despite the increase in price of crypto over time, a lot of people haven't made money. People who are greedy are often very panicky and the amount of people trying to make short term trades unsuccessfully is staggering. Not to mention the people throwing unfathomable amounts of money at new coins without a contract involved or having a clue what is going on.

The greed, panic and nay-sayers is what is keeping the price where it is (low, imo of course). I don't expect prices to hit an all time high for a very long time and I think people who are smart and in it for the long run will reap the rewards.

So I am going to sell you an apple today at 27x the price it was in January. Would you say that apple was good value? What has changed to ETH that makes it worth that much more today? How is it the market cap of ETH is the same or similar to that of Citi Corp, one of the biggest banks in the world.

Cryptos are ridiculously overvalued, it's nothing to do with the technology it's market sentiment. For many months off the back of a tide of ICOs followed by new investors seeing cryptos as a get rick quick scheme, the price of every coin has exponentially rallied. This is 97-99 all over again. In history every asset class that has got ahead of itself has come crashing back to earth with a bump.

The fact that cryptos are now mainstream (regularly featured on Bloomberg TV) and the man in the street is starting to take interest should worry anyone that invests in this space. As I mentioned previously George Soros and his cronies have been shorting cryptos recently. You can't fight the institutions remember the UK government tried in 1992 and failed, so what chance has anyone else.

  

Could you source the soros claim?

http://cryptowhat.com/soros-the-enemy-of-freedom-and-his-attempt-to-destroy-bitcoin-and-our-plan-to-profit-off-his-back/

I read something more concrete than this in a financial publication a few weeks back, but can't find the link. Regardless, forget about Soros. Hedge fund managers circle around anything they think is overvalued and use shorting strategies to make money for their clients.

The problem with crypto currencies is they operate in a completely unregulated environment, so if institutional investors decide to attack BTC, ETH or any other coin there is nothing the authorities can/will do to stop this. It's already happened over the last 3 weeks with brutal consequences for anyone that bought in June.

As someone who has worked in the investment world for many years, I see this as almost a replication of what happened to tech in 97-99 when anything and everything soared in value much in the same way as cryptos did. Then between 2001-03 the house of cards fell down and nearly every tech stock good or bad fell at least 90%.

There are a lot of younger investors getting into cryptos, people are borrowing money to buy cryptos and this is classic bubble territory behaviour. Pure greed before the inevitable.


 

I started to watch the video in the article but when I saw this was one of his other videos, I decided it wouldn't convince me. Cryptowhat wasn't especially convincing either. I agree re; people borrowing are stupid but this feels a lot like the early days of online poker to me. Some of the ridiculous scams you see are amazing. Its the Wild West out there.

Also I'm not sure if you could do OTC shorts, I can't quite think of a reason you couldn't in this business but surely it would be ridiculous to organise through everything and it would be hard for Soros to get enough action on? There are plenty of places to short/long or buy.

@bitmexrekt and @WhaleCalls for some carcrash viewing.

WIKILEAKS: PEDO HOUSE- Was Obama Really A Pedophile?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83qWnMkAsX8

[acegooner]

It could definitely end in tears, yes. I am aware of that myself, the future is often unknown.

Each day that passes new businesses and services are trying to implement bitcoin, this is going to increase the value of it. It's not like it's been mainstream for 20 years, it's still a relatively new technology and the fact that a lot of people and businesses are trying to learn, own and implement crypto/bitcoin is making it more valuable.

One way you have to think about it is that there are a lot of nay-sayers with crypto. It's natural because there are a lot of negative things happening and a lot of it is not understood. On the other side of the coin you have people who don't have a clue about it and are greedy trying to just make a quick buck. Well, the truth is despite the increase in price of crypto over time, a lot of people haven't made money. People who are greedy are often very panicky and the amount of people trying to make short term trades unsuccessfully is staggering. Not to mention the people throwing unfathomable amounts of money at new coins without a contract involved or having a clue what is going on.

The greed, panic and nay-sayers is what is keeping the price where it is (low, imo of course). I don't expect prices to hit an all time high for a very long time and I think people who are smart and in it for the long run will reap the rewards.

So I am going to sell you an apple today at 27x the price it was in January. Would you say that apple was good value? What has changed to ETH that makes it worth that much more today? How is it the market cap of ETH is the same or similar to that of Citi Corp, one of the biggest banks in the world.

Cryptos are ridiculously overvalued, it's nothing to do with the technology it's market sentiment. For many months off the back of a tide of ICOs followed by new investors seeing cryptos as a get rick quick scheme, the price of every coin has exponentially rallied. This is 97-99 all over again. In history every asset class that has got ahead of itself has come crashing back to earth with a bump.

The fact that cryptos are now mainstream (regularly featured on Bloomberg TV) and the man in the street is starting to take interest should worry anyone that invests in this space. As I mentioned previously George Soros and his cronies have been shorting cryptos recently. You can't fight the institutions remember the UK government tried in 1992 and failed, so what chance has anyone else.

  

Could you source the soros claim?

http://cryptowhat.com/soros-the-enemy-of-freedom-and-his-attempt-to-destroy-bitcoin-and-our-plan-to-profit-off-his-back/

I read something more concrete than this in a financial publication a few weeks back, but can't find the link. Regardless, forget about Soros. Hedge fund managers circle around anything they think is overvalued and use shorting strategies to make money for their clients.

The problem with crypto currencies is they operate in a completely unregulated environment, so if institutional investors decide to attack BTC, ETH or any other coin there is nothing the authorities can/will do to stop this. It's already happened over the last 3 weeks with brutal consequences for anyone that bought in June.

As someone who has worked in the investment world for many years, I see this as almost a replication of what happened to tech in 97-99 when anything and everything soared in value much in the same way as cryptos did. Then between 2001-03 the house of cards fell down and nearly every tech stock good or bad fell at least 90%.

There are a lot of younger investors getting into cryptos, people are borrowing money to buy cryptos and this is classic bubble territory behaviour. Pure greed before the inevitable.


 

How do you short bitcoin?  Presumably there is no stock borrow market for it?  Or is there a futures market in bitcoin now?

You can trade CFDs to short BTC and ETH for sure. I am not sure about other coins, but the prices are quite closely correlated. If the main crypto's tank, usually all the others follow suit.

Okay cheers.  Had no idea it was possible.  Will look into it.

The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.

I am a veteran of shorting the tech bubble.  Shorting is brutal at times, things can easily get to multiples of 20 a more times the underlying value.  If you start at 5x the real value and there is a lot of pain before you are proved right.  I am guessing a lot of these coins are even more volatile, and ofc you may not be right.

Survival of the fittest. I think Soros and most hedge fund managers pockets are deep enough to weather market turbulence either way.

Soros made £1bn in 1992 shorting the £. I am sure that in todays money that would be more than the current inflated value of ETH. It's small fry.  

I am not an idiot.  

There is a huge difference between shorting sterling and shorting ETH or tech stocks.  The volatility of ETH is many multiples higher.   Sterling is never ever moving to $10 from here in a couple of months.  ETH could be worth 10 x as much or 10% of today's figure.  You want to short that on margin good luck to you.  You can easily get wiped out shorting something that is worth 10% of its current value in a couple of years.  I know many people who made and lost huge money in the tech boom and its aftermath.  

Been there, done that, it is brutal.  I was a winner, I wouldn't do it again.  There is no upper bound to a short.  There is no upper bound to your margin payments.  And if the market gets very volatile, you may get closed before you can make a margin payment.  

Good luck to those who short.  

I am not talking about shorting as an individual, I am referring to hedge funds. When you are stuck trying to close your position these people are long gone. I never go short on stocks, much prefer to see real assets appreciate. Unfortunately Cryptos are not real assets they are subjectively valued and not transparent.

That makes them ripe for a shark to short the life out of them, at the expense of newbies getting caught up in the hype. It happens all the time.

[acegooner]

It could definitely end in tears, yes. I am aware of that myself, the future is often unknown.

Each day that passes new businesses and services are trying to implement bitcoin, this is going to increase the value of it. It's not like it's been mainstream for 20 years, it's still a relatively new technology and the fact that a lot of people and businesses are trying to learn, own and implement crypto/bitcoin is making it more valuable.

One way you have to think about it is that there are a lot of nay-sayers with crypto. It's natural because there are a lot of negative things happening and a lot of it is not understood. On the other side of the coin you have people who don't have a clue about it and are greedy trying to just make a quick buck. Well, the truth is despite the increase in price of crypto over time, a lot of people haven't made money. People who are greedy are often very panicky and the amount of people trying to make short term trades unsuccessfully is staggering. Not to mention the people throwing unfathomable amounts of money at new coins without a contract involved or having a clue what is going on.

The greed, panic and nay-sayers is what is keeping the price where it is (low, imo of course). I don't expect prices to hit an all time high for a very long time and I think people who are smart and in it for the long run will reap the rewards.

So I am going to sell you an apple today at 27x the price it was in January. Would you say that apple was good value? What has changed to ETH that makes it worth that much more today? How is it the market cap of ETH is the same or similar to that of Citi Corp, one of the biggest banks in the world.

Cryptos are ridiculously overvalued, it's nothing to do with the technology it's market sentiment. For many months off the back of a tide of ICOs followed by new investors seeing cryptos as a get rick quick scheme, the price of every coin has exponentially rallied. This is 97-99 all over again. In history every asset class that has got ahead of itself has come crashing back to earth with a bump.

The fact that cryptos are now mainstream (regularly featured on Bloomberg TV) and the man in the street is starting to take interest should worry anyone that invests in this space. As I mentioned previously George Soros and his cronies have been shorting cryptos recently. You can't fight the institutions remember the UK government tried in 1992 and failed, so what chance has anyone else.

  

Could you source the soros claim?

http://cryptowhat.com/soros-the-enemy-of-freedom-and-his-attempt-to-destroy-bitcoin-and-our-plan-to-profit-off-his-back/

I read something more concrete than this in a financial publication a few weeks back, but can't find the link. Regardless, forget about Soros. Hedge fund managers circle around anything they think is overvalued and use shorting strategies to make money for their clients.

The problem with crypto currencies is they operate in a completely unregulated environment, so if institutional investors decide to attack BTC, ETH or any other coin there is nothing the authorities can/will do to stop this. It's already happened over the last 3 weeks with brutal consequences for anyone that bought in June.

As someone who has worked in the investment world for many years, I see this as almost a replication of what happened to tech in 97-99 when anything and everything soared in value much in the same way as cryptos did. Then between 2001-03 the house of cards fell down and nearly every tech stock good or bad fell at least 90%.

There are a lot of younger investors getting into cryptos, people are borrowing money to buy cryptos and this is classic bubble territory behaviour. Pure greed before the inevitable.


 

I started to watch the video in the article but when I saw this was one of his other videos, I decided it wouldn't convince me. Cryptowhat wasn't especially convincing either. I agree re; people borrowing are stupid but this feels a lot like the early days of online poker to me. Some of the ridiculous scams you see are amazing. Its the Wild West out there.

Also I'm not sure if you could do OTC shorts, I can't quite think of a reason you couldn't in this business but surely it would be ridiculous to organise through everything and it would be hard for Soros to get enough action on? There are plenty of places to short/long or buy.

@bitmexrekt and @WhaleCalls for some carcrash viewing.

WIKILEAKS: PEDO HOUSE- Was Obama Really A Pedophile?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83qWnMkAsX8

The video is pretty lame tbh, but that's not my point. Investors should be aware that cryptos are not a get rich quick scheme and if you didn't get in prior to this year you are taking a huge risk holding these assets. That is the reason hedge funds are circling as I alluded to in my other post.

[acegooner]

It could definitely end in tears, yes. I am aware of that myself, the future is often unknown.

Each day that passes new businesses and services are trying to implement bitcoin, this is going to increase the value of it. It's not like it's been mainstream for 20 years, it's still a relatively new technology and the fact that a lot of people and businesses are trying to learn, own and implement crypto/bitcoin is making it more valuable.

One way you have to think about it is that there are a lot of nay-sayers with crypto. It's natural because there are a lot of negative things happening and a lot of it is not understood. On the other side of the coin you have people who don't have a clue about it and are greedy trying to just make a quick buck. Well, the truth is despite the increase in price of crypto over time, a lot of people haven't made money. People who are greedy are often very panicky and the amount of people trying to make short term trades unsuccessfully is staggering. Not to mention the people throwing unfathomable amounts of money at new coins without a contract involved or having a clue what is going on.

The greed, panic and nay-sayers is what is keeping the price where it is (low, imo of course). I don't expect prices to hit an all time high for a very long time and I think people who are smart and in it for the long run will reap the rewards.

So I am going to sell you an apple today at 27x the price it was in January. Would you say that apple was good value? What has changed to ETH that makes it worth that much more today? How is it the market cap of ETH is the same or similar to that of Citi Corp, one of the biggest banks in the world.

Cryptos are ridiculously overvalued, it's nothing to do with the technology it's market sentiment. For many months off the back of a tide of ICOs followed by new investors seeing cryptos as a get rick quick scheme, the price of every coin has exponentially rallied. This is 97-99 all over again. In history every asset class that has got ahead of itself has come crashing back to earth with a bump.

The fact that cryptos are now mainstream (regularly featured on Bloomberg TV) and the man in the street is starting to take interest should worry anyone that invests in this space. As I mentioned previously George Soros and his cronies have been shorting cryptos recently. You can't fight the institutions remember the UK government tried in 1992 and failed, so what chance has anyone else.

  

Could you source the soros claim?

http://cryptowhat.com/soros-the-enemy-of-freedom-and-his-attempt-to-destroy-bitcoin-and-our-plan-to-profit-off-his-back/

I read something more concrete than this in a financial publication a few weeks back, but can't find the link. Regardless, forget about Soros. Hedge fund managers circle around anything they think is overvalued and use shorting strategies to make money for their clients.

The problem with crypto currencies is they operate in a completely unregulated environment, so if institutional investors decide to attack BTC, ETH or any other coin there is nothing the authorities can/will do to stop this. It's already happened over the last 3 weeks with brutal consequences for anyone that bought in June.

As someone who has worked in the investment world for many years, I see this as almost a replication of what happened to tech in 97-99 when anything and everything soared in value much in the same way as cryptos did. Then between 2001-03 the house of cards fell down and nearly every tech stock good or bad fell at least 90%.

There are a lot of younger investors getting into cryptos, people are borrowing money to buy cryptos and this is classic bubble territory behaviour. Pure greed before the inevitable.


 

How do you short bitcoin?  Presumably there is no stock borrow market for it?  Or is there a futures market in bitcoin now?

You can trade CFDs to short BTC and ETH for sure. I am not sure about other coins, but the prices are quite closely correlated. If the main crypto's tank, usually all the others follow suit.

Okay cheers.  Had no idea it was possible.  Will look into it.

The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.

I am a veteran of shorting the tech bubble.  Shorting is brutal at times, things can easily get to multiples of 20 a more times the underlying value.  If you start at 5x the real value and there is a lot of pain before you are proved right.  I am guessing a lot of these coins are even more volatile, and ofc you may not be right.

Survival of the fittest. I think Soros and most hedge fund managers pockets are deep enough to weather market turbulence either way.

Soros made £1bn in 1992 shorting the £. I am sure that in todays money that would be more than the current inflated value of ETH. It's small fry.  

I am not an idiot.  

There is a huge difference between shorting sterling and shorting ETH or tech stocks.  The volatility of ETH is many multiples higher.   Sterling is never ever moving to $10 from here in a couple of months.  ETH could be worth 10 x as much or 10% of today's figure.  You want to short that on margin good luck to you.  You can easily get wiped out shorting something that is worth 10% of its current value in a couple of years.  I know many people who made and lost huge money in the tech boom and its aftermath.  

Been there, done that, it is brutal.  I was a winner, I wouldn't do it again.  There is no upper bound to a short.  There is no upper bound to your margin payments.  And if the market gets very volatile, you may get closed before you can make a margin payment.  

Good luck to those who short.  

I am not talking about shorting as an individual, I am referring to hedge funds. When you are stuck trying to close your position these people are long gone. I never go short on stocks, much prefer to see real assets appreciate. Unfortunately Cryptos are not real assets they are subjectively valued and not transparent.

That makes them ripe for a shark to short the life out of them, at the expense of newbies getting caught up in the hype. It happens all the time.

Edit volatility is what hedge funds thrive on, and I am sure they employ stop loss strategies. Not sure why you have a bee in your bonnet over someone questioning the rise of cryptos, I never made you out to be an idiot.

[Doobs]

It could definitely end in tears, yes. I am aware of that myself, the future is often unknown.

Each day that passes new businesses and services are trying to implement bitcoin, this is going to increase the value of it. It's not like it's been mainstream for 20 years, it's still a relatively new technology and the fact that a lot of people and businesses are trying to learn, own and implement crypto/bitcoin is making it more valuable.

One way you have to think about it is that there are a lot of nay-sayers with crypto. It's natural because there are a lot of negative things happening and a lot of it is not understood. On the other side of the coin you have people who don't have a clue about it and are greedy trying to just make a quick buck. Well, the truth is despite the increase in price of crypto over time, a lot of people haven't made money. People who are greedy are often very panicky and the amount of people trying to make short term trades unsuccessfully is staggering. Not to mention the people throwing unfathomable amounts of money at new coins without a contract involved or having a clue what is going on.

The greed, panic and nay-sayers is what is keeping the price where it is (low, imo of course). I don't expect prices to hit an all time high for a very long time and I think people who are smart and in it for the long run will reap the rewards.

So I am going to sell you an apple today at 27x the price it was in January. Would you say that apple was good value? What has changed to ETH that makes it worth that much more today? How is it the market cap of ETH is the same or similar to that of Citi Corp, one of the biggest banks in the world.

Cryptos are ridiculously overvalued, it's nothing to do with the technology it's market sentiment. For many months off the back of a tide of ICOs followed by new investors seeing cryptos as a get rick quick scheme, the price of every coin has exponentially rallied. This is 97-99 all over again. In history every asset class that has got ahead of itself has come crashing back to earth with a bump.

The fact that cryptos are now mainstream (regularly featured on Bloomberg TV) and the man in the street is starting to take interest should worry anyone that invests in this space. As I mentioned previously George Soros and his cronies have been shorting cryptos recently. You can't fight the institutions remember the UK government tried in 1992 and failed, so what chance has anyone else.

  

Could you source the soros claim?

http://cryptowhat.com/soros-the-enemy-of-freedom-and-his-attempt-to-destroy-bitcoin-and-our-plan-to-profit-off-his-back/

I read something more concrete than this in a financial publication a few weeks back, but can't find the link. Regardless, forget about Soros. Hedge fund managers circle around anything they think is overvalued and use shorting strategies to make money for their clients.

The problem with crypto currencies is they operate in a completely unregulated environment, so if institutional investors decide to attack BTC, ETH or any other coin there is nothing the authorities can/will do to stop this. It's already happened over the last 3 weeks with brutal consequences for anyone that bought in June.

As someone who has worked in the investment world for many years, I see this as almost a replication of what happened to tech in 97-99 when anything and everything soared in value much in the same way as cryptos did. Then between 2001-03 the house of cards fell down and nearly every tech stock good or bad fell at least 90%.

There are a lot of younger investors getting into cryptos, people are borrowing money to buy cryptos and this is classic bubble territory behaviour. Pure greed before the inevitable.


 

How do you short bitcoin?  Presumably there is no stock borrow market for it?  Or is there a futures market in bitcoin now?

You can trade CFDs to short BTC and ETH for sure. I am not sure about other coins, but the prices are quite closely correlated. If the main crypto's tank, usually all the others follow suit.

Okay cheers.  Had no idea it was possible.  Will look into it.

The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.

I am a veteran of shorting the tech bubble.  Shorting is brutal at times, things can easily get to multiples of 20 a more times the underlying value.  If you start at 5x the real value and there is a lot of pain before you are proved right.  I am guessing a lot of these coins are even more volatile, and ofc you may not be right.

Survival of the fittest. I think Soros and most hedge fund managers pockets are deep enough to weather market turbulence either way.

Soros made £1bn in 1992 shorting the £. I am sure that in todays money that would be more than the current inflated value of ETH. It's small fry.  

I am not an idiot.  

There is a huge difference between shorting sterling and shorting ETH or tech stocks.  The volatility of ETH is many multiples higher.   Sterling is never ever moving to $10 from here in a couple of months.  ETH could be worth 10 x as much or 10% of today's figure.  You want to short that on margin good luck to you.  You can easily get wiped out shorting something that is worth 10% of its current value in a couple of years.  I know many people who made and lost huge money in the tech boom and its aftermath.  

Been there, done that, it is brutal.  I was a winner, I wouldn't do it again.  There is no upper bound to a short.  There is no upper bound to your margin payments.  And if the market gets very volatile, you may get closed before you can make a margin payment.  

Good luck to those who short.  

I am not talking about shorting as an individual, I am referring to hedge funds. When you are stuck trying to close your position these people are long gone. I never go short on stocks, much prefer to see real assets appreciate. Unfortunately Cryptos are not real assets they are subjectively valued and not transparent.

That makes them ripe for a shark to short the life out of them, at the expense of newbies getting caught up in the hype. It happens all the time.

Edit volatility is what hedge funds thrive on, and I am sure they employ stop loss strategies. Not sure why you have a bee in your bonnet over someone questioning the rise of cryptos, I never made you out to be an idiot.

I give up.  I clearly am not a fan of these assets, just read my other posts on the thread.  I never have made any points here about them been undervalued, I think the whole thing is a bit crazy.

DungBeetle enquired about shorting, and I was just trying to get over how risky it is with something like this.  I did it in the tech boom, and even though I ended up, I still have the scars.  Unless you are really lucky with your timing, you get so beaten up by the large margin calls, that you are happy to take any profit in the end.     

You came up with some irrelevant point about Soros shorting an asset that behaves much more differently.  Sterling is a much less risky short, because it isn't going to make the violent moves that crypto currencies make any time soon.  Even if Brexit is a shambles and/or John McDonnell literally spews tons of money on a whole bunch of idiotic projects, then sterling is still going to be more stable than the crypto currencies for the forseeable future. I'd ago as far as to say that shorting cryptos is likely to be a riskier strategy than buying them.  There are plenty of other assets you can make decent returns on without the huge risk involved in shorting an asset like this.   

FWIW Hedge funds can't really make an asset fall in the long run, as they have to buy back the assets some day.  Assets fall in the end because they are overvalued.  The shorters frequently get the blame, but the buyers usually cause their own losses by paying too much for the assets they buy.   But many people are much happier if they can find somebody else who is at fault for their losses.  No doubt, poorer in the long run, but happier.  And cryptocurrencies aren't subjectively valued, they are real buyers paying the price and real sellers selling at that price.  It isn't somebody sat in a room declaring they are worth $2000 today.  If more people want to buy than want to sell, the price will go up. 

The issue with them is we are on page 9, and nobody has explained why bitcoin are worth $500, $1000 or $10,000.  Picking numbers off some extrapolated random walk doesn't make an explanation.   I could produce a reasonable explanation of why the assets I hold are worth what they are.  It just seems to be a bit tougher with cryptos currencies.