Official cryptocurrency thread (Bitcoin, Ethereum, Altcoin)

[acegooner]

Very results orientated thread this one, a flurry of activity when the prices recover but nothing when the prices are tanking. I still won't buy cryptos because they are overvalued, have no transparency and the are relentlessly ramped on SM by people who have a vested interest in newbies buying at inflated prices especially ico's.
 

Quite the contrary. In fact, when this post was extremely active crypto sunk so hard it hurt. No posts were then made for about 3 weeks apart from news bot tighty in which time my portfolio and many others have risen 30-60%. When you post something like this it just discredits what I think about your other posts, and I am one for trying to take both sides of the coin. All of my posts and ramblings have opened up about all the negatives and hurdles crypto currently faces.

I'm still for buying tech stocks, took a punt on a company called EGS that operate in the automated back office market. Robotics and AI will huge wealth creators for people who back companies early. At least you know what you are buying with company stocks.
 

Good for you and good luck. At least you know what you're buying, because clearly nobody in crypto has a clue.

Ohh and no one can steal your shares, unlike cryptos that you need to go through ridiculous processes to secure your currency and prevent criminals from hacking into your wallets and making off with the proceeds.
 

Yes, I have to agree, it is not anywhere near as safe as it should be. This is because markets and trading sites aren't regulated and this area is very new. If you're smart and know what you're doing and take all of the necessary steps it's so unlikely you're going to be unsafe. Who do you think pays when idiot Joe next door gets £10k stolen from his bank account because his computer is infected after downloading seal porn? Don't say the bank, because the bank doesn't pay .

A lot of people who have got into this space, know nothing about investments. The lesson will be learned the hard way, history has a habit of repeating itself. 1928, 1987, 2001-03, 2007-09.

I finally agree with something you say, a lot of people do indeed have no clue what they are doing. You will find that there are lots of big private groups of friends and what not follow each other with what coins they buy and how they split their portfolio. Mostly it will just be say 5% of the group doing all the work and others following suit. If you are following smart people then you will be ok, but if you're not smart enough to know if the guys suggesting what to do are smart or not, you're in trouble.

I do believe that there will be many crashes along the way and probably a really nasty one that could take a year to recover. The market is currently very over-valued depending how you look at it but the markets are based more on future value and implementation. This may sound like a way that I am trying to justify the value of crypto but it's true. There have been many crashes in the past and huge swings time and time again.


Please be a little open minded and don't just disregard it all as nonsense, greed and a market full of idiots. The way you come across is that you are being a stubborn and closed-minded individual and I can accept that attitude if you have a past background in investments and are refusing to even scratch the surface of crypto.
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[tikay]

CLARIFICATION

Sometimes, the "quote" function on blonde does not work properly.

The post made by acegooner at the foot of the previous page was not easy to see, so this is what he wrote;


I defy anyone to come on this thread and give a rational argument for holding cryptos, apart from it being nothing more than a pure punt. With the recent rise in BTC, its market cap is now more than half the FTSE100 constituents. Sorry for me the emperor really has no clothes on.

[acegooner]

CLARIFICATION

Sometimes, the "quote" function on blonde does not work properly.

The post made by acegooner at the foot of the previous page was not easy to see, so this is what he wrote;


I defy anyone to come on this thread and give a rational argument for holding cryptos, apart from it being nothing more than a pure punt. With the recent rise in BTC, its market cap is now more than half the FTSE100 constituents. Sorry for me the emperor really has no clothes on.

Thanks Tikay, it's worrying that people put their money into instruments they don't really understand. Warren Buffet for exactly that reason didn't partake in the tech boom between 97-99 and subsequently kept his shirt.

[tikay]

^^^^

Well I guess you know I'm a HUGE Warren Buffet/Berkshire Hathaway Fanboy, think I've got more books about Warren &/or Charlie Munger than any other topic.

I have been on the sidelines during this debate, but that does not mean I don't have a very strong view on it all.

And here's the thing which, perhaps, Dan (Lucky Scrote) - who is, I like to think, a pal of mine, perhaps forgets too easily. MY resistance to all this crypto currency stuff is quite simple - I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT.

Acegooner - also a friend, though more a virtual one - mentioned the FTSE constituents this morning.

And here's the thing.

I completely understand how the FTSE works, & I know my investments are backed by genuine value. I have x,000 shares in Rolls Royce, for example, & I can PROVE, & see with my own eyes, the assets that back that share price. Hell, I can go to Heathrow & see "my" engines working, or pop up to Victory Road Derby or Hucknall & see the RR factories.  And I can look at their Balance Sheet, & take a view on future prospects by observing their company statements.

But because I don't understand Crypto AT ALL, I can't see the assets that back them up. Or understand the principle of asset backing to Crypto currencies.    

I can go to Wiki, of course, but stuff like this is not easy to comprehend;


 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptocurrency


I'm sure Crypto Currency will cope without me, & I'm deffo not dissing it. I just don't understand it, as simple as that.

I mean, this is a so-called "hashcoin mine". WTF?

[tikay]

Oh - & I'm almost certain that it's an age related thing.

The older generation, generally, won't be Crypto Currency fans, the younger generation will.

And it's probably best not to get into a debate about the comparative wisdom of the two age groups, is it?

[teddybloat]

Tikay do you listen to podcasts?

There's a great one called econtalk


It's hosted by Russ Roberts and I think it might be your thing. It gives an hour to a subject each week and it's given a serious treatment in that hour. Some great debates and topic from economic policy to why milk is at the back of a store via economics of prison gangs.

Theyve done numerous crypto currency episodes in the past which explain a lot to us interested lay people.


http://www.econtalk.org

[acegooner]

^^^^

Well I guess you know I'm a HUGE Warren Buffet/Berkshire Hathaway Fanboy, think I've got more books about Warren &/or Charlie Munger than any other topic.

I have been on the sidelines during this debate, but that does not mean I don't have a very strong view on it all.

And here's the thing which, perhaps, Dan (Lucky Scrote) - who is, I like to think, a pal of mine, perhaps forgets too easily. MY resistance to all this crypto currency stuff is quite simple - I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT.

Acegooner - also a friend, though more a virtual one - mentioned the FTSE constituents this morning.

And here's the thing.

I completely understand how the FTSE works, & I know my investments are backed by genuine value. I have x,000 shares in Rolls Royce, for example, & I can PROVE, & see with my own eyes, the assets that back that share price. Hell, I can go to Heathrow & see "my" engines working, or pop up to Victory Road Derby or Hucknall & see the RR factories.  And I can look at their Balance Sheet, & take a view on future prospects by observing their company statements.

But because I don't understand Crypto AT ALL, I can't see the assets that back them up. Or understand the principle of asset backing to Crypto currencies.    

I can go to Wiki, of course, but stuff like this is not easy to comprehend;


 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptocurrency


I'm sure Crypto Currency will cope without me, & I'm deffo not dissing it. I just don't understand it, as simple as that.

I mean, this is a so-called "hashcoin mine". WTF?

I am somewhere in between being a whipper snapper and an old sage .

But what I find really frustrating about crypto's is people try and talk about them in a position of authority/knowledge. I have financial planning qualifications and been an active investor since the "tell sid" era, and you know what Tikay having studied cryptos for quite a few months now I have to say, they are totally lacking in transparency.

More importantly due to the lack of regulation, if you do not secure your crypto currencies properly in a hard wallet, Joe Bloggs can hack into your computer and make off with your crypto's and there is nothing you can do about it. No FCA redress, no accountability from the platform that you purchased your crypto currency, nothing.

People say that Bitcoin will take over the USD as the worlds default currency, really? Tell me where in London that I can go to a cashpoint machine and convert Bitcoin into a currency that is accepted at my local supermarket.

The astronomic valuations of crypto currencies are also not justified in my opinion. How does Ethereum go from $8 to $300 in 7 months and yet people still say there is more upside. What has happened to the fundamentals that change the value so much in such a short space of time?

Social Media has a lot to explain here in my opinion, because especially on youtube you have these crypto "gurus" who are doing nothing but ramping the price up of both existing and new coins.

Would I personally invest in cryptos? No way at current levels, but if there was a crash I would be happy allocating a small proportion of my invested wealth into this space (less than 5% for sure). Even then I could not hand on heart say it was anything else but a punt.

What worries me is that cryptos are now main stream, as soon as your taxi driver starts talking about Bitcoin, you know there is a bubble waiting to burst.

My advice to anyone looking at this area is to build a solid portfolio of real investments before you start looking at this space. As I said before I am a big fan of AI, robotics and VR as investment themes. All of the investments I have made in these areas over the last few years have increased exponentially. People are saying tech stocks are overvalued at present, thats probably correct but nowhere near as much as cryptos imo.

To quote Warren Buffet again, "be fearful when others are being greedy, and be greedy when others are being fearful". I use this quote all the time when I talk about investing money. Buffet is a genius with the way he explains things in such simple plain english, and what he says rings so true here.

[StuartHopkin]

People say that Bitcoin will take over the USD as the worlds default currency, really? Tell me where in London that I can go to a cashpoint machine and convert Bitcoin into a currency that is accepted at my local supermarket.

Quite a few places by the look of it?

https://coinatmradar.com/city/92/bitcoin-atm-london-uk/

[EvilPie]

About that store of value thing, Etherium down 24% in the last 24 hours

https://coinmarketcap.com/

I often have a look on here for shits and giggles.

Bitcoin more than doubled in value in the last month from $1900 of July 16th to $4316 today. Ethereum in the same period gone from $150 to $299 today

Whatever happens it's a wild f**king ride for you guys who're invested

To be honest I wish I'd bought some just for the fun of seeing how much money I could win and lose without moving my arse. Would probably cure my need to gamble elsewhere.

EDIT: Sorry it's now moved to $4302 as I've been typing.

Amazing

 

[EvilPie]

Seems to be at a huge spike at the moment. Any of you guys thinking of selling or is it long term hold?

[tikay]

About that store of value thing, Etherium down 24% in the last 24 hours

https://coinmarketcap.com/

I often have a look on here for shits and giggles.

Bitcoin more than doubled in value in the last month from $1900 of July 16th to $4316 today. Ethereum in the same period gone from $150 to $299 today

Whatever happens it's a wild f**king ride for you guys who're invested

To be honest I wish I'd bought some just for the fun of seeing how much money I could win and lose without moving my arse. Would probably cure my need to gamble elsewhere.

EDIT: Sorry it's now moved to $4302 as I've been typing.

Amazing

 

It's the new Larry the Lobster.

[tikay]

Tikay do you listen to podcasts?

There's a great one called econtalk


It's hosted by Russ Roberts and I think it might be your thing. It gives an hour to a subject each week and it's given a serious treatment in that hour. Some great debates and topic from economic policy to why milk is at the back of a store via economics of prison gangs.

Theyve done numerous crypto currency episodes in the past which explain a lot to us interested lay people.


http://www.econtalk.org

Thanks Teddy.

No, never listened to a Podcast to be honest.

Thanks for the tip.

PS - Yup, I know why & how Product in Supermarkets is strategically placed. Now that is something I can understand.

[teddybloat]

Actually it turns out that milk is simply placed at the back as it gets into refrigeration faster than storing it in the front. The Machiavellian  idea of getting people through the store past other products is a myth, or a happy by-product at best.

Listening two serious economists and academics investigate and debate it for an hour was surprisingly rivetting

[acegooner]

People say that Bitcoin will take over the USD as the worlds default currency, really? Tell me where in London that I can go to a cashpoint machine and convert Bitcoin into a currency that is accepted at my local supermarket.

Quite a few places by the look of it?

https://coinatmradar.com/city/92/bitcoin-atm-london-uk/

You stand more chance of finding an electric plug point for your car than a bitcoin atm. London is one of the largest cities in the world and it has a whole 20 places, where you can convert your coins into proper currency ie sterling. Not to mention the eye-watering charges for selling......

[Doobs]

CLARIFICATION

Sometimes, the "quote" function on blonde does not work properly.

The post made by acegooner at the foot of the previous page was not easy to see, so this is what he wrote;


I defy anyone to come on this thread and give a rational argument for holding cryptos, apart from it being nothing more than a pure punt. With the recent rise in BTC, its market cap is now more than half the FTSE100 constituents. Sorry for me the emperor really has no clothes on.

I get why people would use cryptos, I get the blockchain, I even get the mining bit.  It is rational to use cryptos, so it must be rational to hold them.

All I want to know is why they are worth $4000 dollars each.  The dollar is a very useful bit of kit and is seen as the strongest currency in the World, and is used in huge proportions of the World's trade.  Yet it is worth a dollar.