Official cryptocurrency thread (Bitcoin, Ethereum, Altcoin)

[EvilPie]

My personal thoughts on these kind of things are basically that as soon as someone as low down the financial food chain as me finds out about it it's already too late. The only reason I'm now getting a chance to get in on the act is that it's the final phase of the originators of whatever it is making their billions.

I imagine a few of people are going to make a countless amount of money out of this. Sadly that's going to mean that countless people are going to lose a lot as well.

It doesn't create anything, doesn't build anything, doesn't manufacture anything. There are a finite number of bitcoins that have increased in value enormously somehow. The people who already own them are going to do alright by the looks of it but somewhere down the line people are going to have to lose exactly the same amount of money between them that the bitcoin people have made. There's no other possibility unless money somehow just disappears completely. It may be that bitcoin makes another currency crash. That means that the poor guy who owns that particular currency has now lost everything he/she owns.

The creators are making out it's some kind of revolution but I can't see any reason they created it other than to make themselves insanely rich. Now they just have to get it out to as many people as possible as quickly as possible to maximise their own personal wealth.

Not that I'm a cynic or anything

[POWWWWWWWW]

My personal thoughts on these kind of things are basically that as soon as someone as low down the financial food chain as me finds out about it it's already too late. The only reason I'm now getting a chance to get in on the act is that it's the final phase of the originators of whatever it is making their billions.

I imagine a few of people are going to make a countless amount of money out of this. Sadly that's going to mean that countless people are going to lose a lot as well.

It doesn't create anything, doesn't build anything, doesn't manufacture anything. There are a finite number of bitcoins that have increased in value enormously somehow. The people who already own them are going to do alright by the looks of it but somewhere down the line people are going to have to lose exactly the same amount of money between them that the bitcoin people have made. There's no other possibility unless money somehow just disappears completely. It may be that bitcoin makes another currency crash. That means that the poor guy who owns that particular currency has now lost everything he/she owns.

The creators are making out it's some kind of revolution but I can't see any reason they created it other than to make themselves insanely rich. Now they just have to get it out to as many people as possible as quickly as possible to maximise their own personal wealth.

Not that I'm a cynic or anything

Buying drugs, guns and people is a lot easier now tbf.

[youthnkzR]

In!

Have a v small amount of BTC purchased towards the end of 2016.. Been reading up quite a bit lately and looking to get a bit more involved in others.. will keep an eye out on this thread thats for sure!

[scotty77]

Don't have any but will invest as soon as I can as it seems the future

This is an excellent podcast about the topic, really explains it well. I'd recommend 2 or 3 listens to digest it all.

Naval Ravikant is one of the most fascinating people  around and would urge anyone to seek out more of his thoughts.

http://tim.blog/2017/06/04/nick-szabo/

[rfgqqabc]

Why do people think early adopters won't have taken fiat? Its possible to cry bubble but I just beat almost any index in the world with under 25% of my total position being sold.

Amazed by the number of outright negatives compared to unsures. Lots of big presumptions in the topic for a 100bn industry. (dont buy yet)

[DungBeetle]

I urge the people that think this is all about investment and keep talking about crypto having no intrinsic value to separate the money side from the crypto and learn about the technology. Investment and money aside blockchain technology is amazing. One thing that is uncertain is how much 1 btc is worth in the future, but one thing that is absolutely 100% is that the blockchain technology will be internet 2.0. One of the biggest assets of blockchain technology is the removal of a third party. Having third parties is every day life at the moment since blockchain technology isn't implemented. They have the job of being the adjudicator and making sure everything is fair. There are many problems with third parties. They add costs, they can be corrupt and they are timely. Most organisations are not corrupt, most organisations aren't terribly expensive and some/most are timely. The way blockchain works is that it is very fast, requires no middle man and with a well implemented blockchain they are impossible to fuck with.

It is feasible that you can buy a car from someone using a crypto currency in the future and the code in the transaction will prove that you are trading a car for your crypto. It will be instant and that information will be available for the world to see. Currently, for this to happen it will take weeks, countless paperwork and it has to be paid through taxes or direct costs.

I know I've gone on about it, but it's not just about the money. What I'm sure of is the technology is going to take over every day life and whether 1 BTC is going to be worth $100k in 10 years who knows, but it seems like a really good investment to me.

But blockchain tech and bitcoin are separate right?  The blockchain is the way to allocate and transfer bitcoin.  Like an electronic register of ownership and transfer?  If the blockchain is going to be applicable in the future couldn't we transfer bananas just as easily as bitcoin?  If so isn't it the blockchain asset you want to invest in and the bitcoin is just an asset that happens to currently trade on blockchain?  Or have I misunderstood?

And this is where potentially the banks come in - can they used blockchain tech and ignore the bitcoin element?

[lucky_scrote]

Buying drugs, guns and people is a lot easier now tbf.

The % of money being used fraudently and to buy drugs is close to 0 with cryptocurrency compared to FIAT money.

[lucky_scrote]

Why do people think early adopters won't have taken fiat?

This. One the bitcointalk forum section on ethereum someone made a thread asking about how many ethereum millionaires there were since that forum is full of early adopters. Just like you said almost everyone cashed out at one point or another because it's only been recently that trust has increased. There are definitely some people out there who are wealthy because of crypto alone but this seems limited to people that were way ahead of the curve and totally dedicated to the technology. As for the rest of people who bought a load not knowing what they were doing ended up losing their coin by not storing it properly or getting hacked. My friend told me he got hacked for 45BTC in 2013 which makes me kind of sick to think about it. The reason? He used the same password for everything :/ 

[DungBeetle]

Why do people think early adopters won't have taken fiat?

This. One the bitcointalk forum section on ethereum someone made a thread asking about how many ethereum millionaires there were since that forum is full of early adopters. Just like you said almost everyone cashed out at one point or another because it's only been recently that trust has increased. There are definitely some people out there who are wealthy because of crypto alone but this seems limited to people that were way ahead of the curve and totally dedicated to the technology. As for the rest of people who bought a load not knowing what they were doing ended up losing their coin by not storing it properly or getting hacked. My friend told me he got hacked for 45BTC in 2013 which makes me kind of sick to think about it. The reason? He used the same password for everything :/ 

If someone hacks and takes Bitcoin won't that not show up on the blockchain and hence be invalid?

[AndrewT]

There just seems to be something a bit 'boiler room' about people who hold crypto having an evangelical zeal about telling everyone about how it's a sure thing for the future.

I have no issues with crypto as a thing - it's just that in order for it to be a good investment I'd need to hear about why it's underpriced now. Bitcoin has doubled in value in the last 3 months - why is it still value?

I remember when Bitcoin hit $1000 back a few years ago and then more than halved in value and it took 3 years to recover its value.

[EvilPie]

There just seems to be something a bit 'boiler room' about people who hold crypto having an evangelical zeal about telling everyone about how it's a sure thing for the future.

I have no issues with crypto as a thing - it's just that in order for it to be a good investment I'd need to hear about why it's underpriced now. Bitcoin has doubled in value in the last 3 months - why is it still value?

I remember when Bitcoin hit $1000 back a few years ago and then more than halved in value and it took 3 years to recover its value.

This was the impression I got from watching the recommended youtube video and then several videos that you get linked to from there.

It only becomes valuable the more people know about it and want it from what I can see.

What happens with it when it comes to taxes? If you buy a car with bitcoin do you have to pay the VAT with normal money?

Surely that's going to be a big stumbling block to it becoming mainstream?

[acegooner]

I am looking at Iconomi, which essentially is a basket of other cryptos. But I am waiting for its price to fall before I invest anything. I like the principle of diversifying risk and will only drip feed a few hundred pounds at a time if I do dabble.

Also watching EOS which has just recently had its ICO. Went from $1 to $5 in a matter of days and back down to $3. Not for the faint hearted!

[acegooner]

There just seems to be something a bit 'boiler room' about people who hold crypto having an evangelical zeal about telling everyone about how it's a sure thing for the future.

I have no issues with crypto as a thing - it's just that in order for it to be a good investment I'd need to hear about why it's underpriced now. Bitcoin has doubled in value in the last 3 months - why is it still value?

I remember when Bitcoin hit $1000 back a few years ago and then more than halved in value and it took 3 years to recover its value.

This was the impression I got from watching the recommended youtube video and then several videos that you get linked to from there.

It only becomes valuable the more people know about it and want it from what I can see.

What happens with it when it comes to taxes? If you buy a car with bitcoin do you have to pay the VAT with normal money?

Surely that's going to be a big stumbling block to it becoming mainstream?

Cryptocurrency like most other forms of investments are subject to CGT.

[lucky_scrote]

If someone hacks and takes Bitcoin won't that not show up on the blockchain and hence be invalid?

You have to steal bitcoin from a particular user. You can "hack" in to their computer or whatever but you can't hack into the bitcoin algorithm and just create your own.

If you managed to take control of someone else's wallet and sent their coin to your own wallet, it would appear to be a genuine transaction that can't be reversed.

[DungBeetle]

If someone hacks and takes Bitcoin won't that not show up on the blockchain and hence be invalid?

You have to steal bitcoin from a particular user. You can "hack" in to their computer or whatever but you can't hack into the bitcoin algorithm and just create your own.

If you managed to take control of someone else's wallet and sent their coin to your own wallet, it would appear to be a genuine transaction that can't be reversed.

Is there a record of what Wallet it went to?  Is so can't I just phone the police as I am a victim of cybercrime?  If not then how can I ever offer proof of purchase if I buy something genuine?  Apologies about the volume of questions.