Official cryptocurrency thread (Bitcoin, Ethereum, Altcoin)

[SuperJez]

https://xbtprovider.com/news/post/xbt-provider-ab-statement-on-bitcoin-gold-fork

"The Issuer reiterates that it will do all that can practicably be done in the circumstances to maximize value for investors in its Certificates."

That does not fill me with any confidence they can handle it properly.  You, for sure, would not be getting bitcoin cash/gold/whatever tokens to do with as you please.

[acegooner]

It's not HL who are taking on the counterparty risk, which for something as unusual and volatile as bitcoin or ethereum must be several degrees higher than an S&P tracker.  How exactly do they handle hard forks or token airdrops?  It cannot be done properly.  Just because it is listed on the HL platform does not mean its safe, you could have bought shares in Carrilion on there last week.

You also can't access money in your SIPP until your 55, enjoy that lambo in your old age!

Of course I have a SIPP and everyone should make use of these things - but it's not the best way to invest in cryptos.

I know that HL are the broker. Of course they don't take on the counterparty risk. My point is HL as a regulated entity have an obligation to carry out due diligence on any third party providers.

With regards to the hard forks, you answered the question yourself in your previous post. The tracker fund does not hold physical BTC, therefore, it only tracks the underlying price of BTC itself.

Not sure where you get the name Lambo from, but thanks for letting me know a SIPP cannot be vested before age 55. I must remember to tell my corporate/individual clients that I have advised over my many years, working in the pensions industry .

In any case, my reference to the SIPP was because the original question made specific references to this type of product.

[acegooner]

https://xbtprovider.com/news/post/xbt-provider-ab-statement-on-bitcoin-gold-fork

"The Issuer reiterates that it will do all that can practicably be done in the circumstances to maximize value for investors in its Certificates."

That does not fill me with any confidence they can handle it properly.  You, for sure, would not be getting bitcoin cash/gold/whatever tokens to do with as you please.

Sorry I disagree wholeheartedly with your comment here. Any tracker fund can fail to replicate the underlying asset it designed to cover. That is a risk agreed, but in comparison to holding bitcoin at somewhere like Coinbase, I would choose HL every time.

When the bottom falls out of the crypto world, watch how all these exchanges fail their customers big time.

[arbboy]

When the fun stops, stop.  Looks like its time to stop. 

[SuperJez]

https://xbtprovider.com/news/post/xbt-provider-ab-statement-on-bitcoin-gold-fork

"The Issuer reiterates that it will do all that can practicably be done in the circumstances to maximize value for investors in its Certificates."

That does not fill me with any confidence they can handle it properly.  You, for sure, would not be getting bitcoin cash/gold/whatever tokens to do with as you please.

Sorry I disagree wholeheartedly with your comment here. Any tracker fund can fail to replicate the underlying asset it designed to cover. That is a risk agreed, but in comparison to holding bitcoin at somewhere like Coinbase, I would choose HL every time.

When the bottom falls out of the crypto world, watch how all these exchanges fail their customers big time.

I have no idea what you are actually referring to, the comment you quoted was "That does not fill me with any confidence they can handle it properly.  You, for sure, would not be getting bitcoin cash/gold/whatever tokens to do with as you please.".  That was a reference to the fact these synthetic tracker products cannot handle hard forks/airdrops properly.  Which they quite clearly cannot.

Nowhere did I say I would hold on coinbase, what I did say earlier was "If you want to invest in these things imo just hold the real thing in a hardware wallet and keep good records".  Which is  sound advice.

These synthetic tracker products are designed to profit from people who want in on the action but are put off by the difficulty of buying/holding properly and want it on a platform they are used to and understand.  They carry counterparty risk and do not give the buyers the benefits holders of the real thing get.  Your money is also locked up until your old age if you wrap them in a SIPP (they cannot be wrapped in an ISA).  They are a bad way to put money into cryptos.

[typhoon13]

When the fun stops, stop.  Looks like its time to stop. 

I stopped Sunday

Sidelines for me now

Privateer feeding frenzy as abated, easy money been made, trying to get my old sleeping pattern back lol

Now where did I put that big bag of cheese and onion crisps!!

[typhoon13]

FFS arbs as eaten themmmmmmmmmmm

[arbboy]

i will rephrase it then. 'when trev stops, stop'!  That is probably even more true. 

[typhoon13]

Another bout of Eastern seaboard sell down, give it another few more hours then the Western seaboard joins the party

[acegooner]

https://xbtprovider.com/news/post/xbt-provider-ab-statement-on-bitcoin-gold-fork

"The Issuer reiterates that it will do all that can practicably be done in the circumstances to maximize value for investors in its Certificates."

That does not fill me with any confidence they can handle it properly.  You, for sure, would not be getting bitcoin cash/gold/whatever tokens to do with as you please.

Sorry I disagree wholeheartedly with your comment here. Any tracker fund can fail to replicate the underlying asset it designed to cover. That is a risk agreed, but in comparison to holding bitcoin at somewhere like Coinbase, I would choose HL every time.

When the bottom falls out of the crypto world, watch how all these exchanges fail their customers big time.

I have no idea what you are actually referring to, the comment you quoted was "That does not fill me with any confidence they can handle it properly.  You, for sure, would not be getting bitcoin cash/gold/whatever tokens to do with as you please.".  That was a reference to the fact these synthetic tracker products cannot handle hard forks/airdrops properly.  Which they quite clearly cannot.

Nowhere did I say I would hold on coinbase, what I did say earlier was "If you want to invest in these things imo just hold the real thing in a hardware wallet and keep good records".  Which is  sound advice.

These synthetic tracker products are designed to profit from people who want in on the action but are put off by the difficulty of buying/holding properly and want it on a platform they are used to and understand.  They carry counterparty risk and do not give the buyers the benefits holders of the real thing get.  Your money is also locked up until your old age if you wrap them in a SIPP (they cannot be wrapped in an ISA).  They are a bad way to put money into cryptos.

You're going off track now best to leave it there, the original question related to SIPPs. If funds are already within the confines of a SIPP, which I suspect they are (hence the question) then it's not possible to buy coins on an exchange.

You talk about counterparty risk as if HL are going to scam people. HL, as I said, are FCA authorised, and if the FCA didn't like HL offering these sorts of ETNs you would hear all about it in the financial press. Not forgetting that HL is a reputable FTSE100 constituent, the biggest broker in the country. Do you honestly think that HL's compliance department would not consider the risk to their clients?

It doesn't matter if it's Coinbase, or any other exchange where you buy/sell your coins these are all companies that cannot deal with high volumes of trades, and as I said previously offer you no protection as a consumer.

[SuperJez]

You're going off track now best to leave it there, the original question related to SIPPs. If funds are already within the confines of a SIPP, which I suspect they are (hence the question) then it's not possible to buy coins on an exchange.

I am not the one that is trying to drag things off track,  You are the one making up statements about coinbase and coming back saying you "disagree wholeheartedly" about outright facts regarding these products. . What you say makes little sense.

You talk about counterparty risk as if HL are going to scam people.

I never once suggested HL are out to scam people and you are continually putting words in peoples mouth's in this thread.  I said there is a counterparty risk with these products that is higher than a standard tracker fund.  I also said just being listed on HL doesn't mean a product is safe.  Both are completely true and relevant points.

It doesn't matter if it's Coinbase, or any other exchange where you buy/sell your coins these are all companies that cannot deal with high volumes of trades, and as I said previously offer you no protection as a consumer.

As has been stated many times in this thread, the best advice is tokeep your coins in a hardware wallet.

[acegooner]

You're going off track now best to leave it there, the original question related to SIPPs. If funds are already within the confines of a SIPP, which I suspect they are (hence the question) then it's not possible to buy coins on an exchange.

I am not the one that is trying to drag things off track,  You are the one making up statements about coinbase and coming back saying you "disagree wholeheartedly" about outright facts regarding these products. . What you say makes little sense.

You talk about counterparty risk as if HL are going to scam people.

I never once suggested HL are out to scam people and you are continually putting words in peoples mouth's in this thread.  I said there is a counterparty risk with these products that is higher than a standard tracker fund.  I also said just being listed on HL doesn't mean a product is safe.  Both are completely true and relevant points.

It doesn't matter if it's Coinbase, or any other exchange where you buy/sell your coins these are all companies that cannot deal with high volumes of trades, and as I said previously offer you no protection as a consumer.

As has been stated many times in this thread, the best advice is tokeep your coins in a hardware wallet.

Was the original query about investing through a SIPP or a hard wallet? I suspect it's you that only reads what he wants to. Your offering advice without even considering the requirements of the person who asked the question, don't try and become a Financial Adviser.

[SuperJez]

Was the original query about investing through a SIPP or a hard wallet? I suspect it's you that only reads what he wants to. Your offering advice without even considering the requirements of the person who asked the question, don't try and become a Financial Adviser.

Was the original query about coinbase? No but you started banging on about it and claiming I am making HL out to be a scam.  I answered the query relevant to a SIPP.  Your input is now bordering on unhelpful and inflammatory.  I have not offered financial "advice" about these products I only pointed out relevant facts that should be considered.   Me and my investments are doing just fine without financial advice.  If you want to stoop to personal insults it is you that it reflects badly on.

[Doobs]

Was the original query about investing through a SIPP or a hard wallet? I suspect it's you that only reads what he wants to. Your offering advice without even considering the requirements of the person who asked the question, don't try and become a Financial Adviser.

Was the original query about coinbase? No but you started banging on about it and claiming I am making HL out to be a scam.  I answered the query relevant to a SIPP.  Your input is now bordering on unhelpful and inflammatory.  I have not offered financial "advice" about these products I only pointed out relevant facts that should be considered.   Me and my investments are doing just fine without financial advice.  If you want to stoop to personal insults it is you that it reflects badly on.

You said the "best advice is".   When I read it, I pretty much thought as acegooner did.  The best advice for who?

But I don't think I'd ever give 2.5% to anyone and I'd be pretty wary of investing that way because of that.  I know crypto returns have blinded people a little to likely future returns, but if you are young and someone takes 2.5% off you a year then your retirement pot is  going to be heftily damaged. 

I read their spiel earlier and I think they do say they fully invest in the underlying asset, so I wouldn't worry too much about them not tracking the asset.  There is still likely to be some counterparty risk from the investment company and I'd be pretty wary of the price they give you given the underlying asset volatility.   

Wouldn't you worry a bit about their security too?  With a big holding in bitcoin aren't they are likely hacking target? 

[SuperJez]

You said the "best advice is".   When I read it, I pretty much thought as acegooner did.  The best advice for who?

I said

As has been stated many times in this thread, the best advice is tokeep your coins in a hardware wallet.

.  In response to acegooner talking about coinbase and the dangers of holding coins there.

"The best advice is to keep your coins in a hardware wallet" is for someone who holds bitcoin/ethereum etc.  I don't think that is really debateable.