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Author Topic: Official cryptocurrency thread (Bitcoin, Ethereum, Altcoin)  (Read 302047 times)
Doobs
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« Reply #705 on: January 13, 2018, 09:43:09 PM »

I think discussion is very healthy for the community, however, you have people purely on crypto because of the massive gains and on the other end of the spectrum you have people who are extremely negative and scream bubble, insecure, fraud, unsafe. They both exist within this thread and are both as ignorant as one another. Ignorant people will miss out or be punished.

I cannot believe that acegooner thinks this thread will be dead in 5 years, the only chance of that happening is if the forum doesn't exist anymore. It is quite clear Mr gooner doesn't understand the tech or get the point of crypto in the slightest. Not only have you been calling this a bubble but now you're suggesting that we will never reach new highs. I refer to highs as both the technological advancement and integration to day to day life as well as the market cap of crypto.

Its slightly unfair and ignorant to join people in a discussion and to dismiss people like this is some kind of fairy tale. I probably spend 3-4 hours a day reading anything to do with crypto for the past year. I've remained open minded and only ever invested money once. I've honestly had to read every one of your posts and had to come back to my computer on a different occasion because your level of ignorance is absolutely mind blowing, as you may notice I've lost my patience a little this time.

Ground breaking tech, market cap x30 since thread began, parabolic growth. Of course it's a bloody bubble of some sort, inside the bubble you can't tell how much tension it's under nor how big it will grow. However, its going to continue to be more and more innovative each year with an upward trend of value over an unknown time frame.

spot on, even though you're pro-crypto you've offered balanced and suggested caution on numerous occasions. Meaning people are quoting Buffett in here who's been calling a bubble for years, well guess what a broken clock is correct twice a day.

Thread's been going 6 months or so, it is a bit early to call the winner. 

Whatever you think of Warren Buffet, he has an exceptional track record going back half a century and has to report his buys and sells accurately.  Nobody here has his record or is subject to his reporting requirements.   He has more than enough to be given a listen here.

Dan's posts are pretty good as a whole, but 30x since this thread started can't be right.  Sure bitcoin was about 3k early doors on the thread, and hasn't that outperformed most of the rest?   



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« Reply #706 on: January 13, 2018, 10:08:36 PM »

I think discussion is very healthy for the community, however, you have people purely on crypto because of the massive gains and on the other end of the spectrum you have people who are extremely negative and scream bubble, insecure, fraud, unsafe. They both exist within this thread and are both as ignorant as one another. Ignorant people will miss out or be punished.

I cannot believe that acegooner thinks this thread will be dead in 5 years, the only chance of that happening is if the forum doesn't exist anymore. It is quite clear Mr gooner doesn't understand the tech or get the point of crypto in the slightest. Not only have you been calling this a bubble but now you're suggesting that we will never reach new highs. I refer to highs as both the technological advancement and integration to day to day life as well as the market cap of crypto.

Its slightly unfair and ignorant to join people in a discussion and to dismiss people like this is some kind of fairy tale. I probably spend 3-4 hours a day reading anything to do with crypto for the past year. I've remained open minded and only ever invested money once. I've honestly had to read every one of your posts and had to come back to my computer on a different occasion because your level of ignorance is absolutely mind blowing, as you may notice I've lost my patience a little this time.

Ground breaking tech, market cap x30 since thread began, parabolic growth. Of course it's a bloody bubble of some sort, inside the bubble you can't tell how much tension it's under nor how big it will grow. However, its going to continue to be more and more innovative each year with an upward trend of value over an unknown time frame.

spot on, even though you're pro-crypto you've offered balanced and suggested caution on numerous occasions. Meaning people are quoting Buffett in here who's been calling a bubble for years, well guess what a broken clock is correct twice a day.

Thread's been going 6 months or so, it is a bit early to call the winner. 

Whatever you think of Warren Buffet, he has an exceptional track record going back half a century and has to report his buys and sells accurately.  Nobody here has his record or is subject to his reporting requirements.   He has more than enough to be given a listen here.

Dan's posts are pretty good as a whole, but 30x since this thread started can't be right.  Sure bitcoin was about 3k early doors on the thread, and hasn't that outperformed most of the rest?   


I make you right, it was about 2.5k -3k from memory when I first started paying attention and that was only really when this thread started, so 4-5x. Even long island tea went up 2.5-3x when it added blockchain to their name :-)

Quite funny people scoffing at Buffet's views

"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision."
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« Reply #707 on: January 13, 2018, 10:38:50 PM »

Think that Whollyflush is talking about the market cap having increased 30x, not the share price.

Disclaimer - I'm in the same boat as Evilpie, though. I just love following, and don't really have any understanding of it all.


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« Reply #708 on: January 13, 2018, 11:09:59 PM »

If you include the buffet comments from 2014 he's also way behind the 8 ball. Irrelevant noise really hence why he's asked and gives an opinion. Pretty much worthless. He even admits he doesn't know anything, just like he did then. Not sure why people would take stock in his words regarding something he self admittedly knows 0 about.

P.s it is a bubble
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« Reply #709 on: January 14, 2018, 01:04:15 AM »

So many people love shouting bubble Smiley

There are thousands of coins/tokens/companies in this space now, and from what i've seen a huge percentage of them are really lightweight, but still raising crazy money via dodgy unregulated investment vehicles (ICOs). So much FOMO that people are queueing up to get in "low" with a new token, regardless of the vapourware tech behind it or any sense of the distribution.

Within a relatively short time we'll start hearing some amazing stories about people pissing all this money up the wall on coke/women/boats or whatever as the businesses they are involved in burn down to nothing.

However there will be at least a handful of projects out there with tremendous future value. Unfortunately no one knows for sure which those are.

Personally I have a very small relative amount of cash involved (compared to house/pension/other investments), mainly as it's a kinda fun volatile thing to cheer on. Hearing people I know talk about getting decent money down, or even randoms in the media, does concern me though as there are going to be some depressing stories about those who get shaken out when all the NonsenseCoins disappear.



« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 01:05:47 AM by Jamier-Host » Logged

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« Reply #710 on: January 14, 2018, 09:35:53 AM »

So many people love shouting bubble Smiley

There are thousands of coins/tokens/companies in this space now, and from what i've seen a huge percentage of them are really lightweight, but still raising crazy money via dodgy unregulated investment vehicles (ICOs). So much FOMO that people are queueing up to get in "low" with a new token, regardless of the vapourware tech behind it or any sense of the distribution.

Within a relatively short time we'll start hearing some amazing stories about people pissing all this money up the wall on coke/women/boats or whatever as the businesses they are involved in burn down to nothing.

However there will be at least a handful of projects out there with tremendous future value. Unfortunately no one knows for sure which those are.

Personally I have a very small relative amount of cash involved (compared to house/pension/other investments), mainly as it's a kinda fun volatile thing to cheer on. Hearing people I know talk about getting decent money down, or even randoms in the media, does concern me though as there are going to be some depressing stories about those who get shaken out when all the NonsenseCoins disappear.





This is mostly right. I do however believe that the people more involved in understanding what the tech is about and what every coin they invest in is trying to do will more likely not end up being stranded when the tide recedes. So basically, people not throwing their money blindly have a better chance.

Regarding market cap, I've been talking about market cap of the entire crypto market. Bitcoin was around $2200 when this thread started but the entire market cap was at $25m (currently 700m, Korean markets have now been excluded from price averages which has brought the market down domewhat).

Who gives a fuck what Buffet says. The whole economy is obviously a bubble itself and the fact that people value their own money so little entices them to persue aggressive investments and to spend their money. The timing of the rise of crypto is rather spectacular- the bitcoin whitepaper was released a year after the crash of 2008.
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« Reply #711 on: January 14, 2018, 11:55:31 AM »

"Far more than terrorism or crime, our politicians are terrified of one thing: the democratisation of money. And it is coming..."

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/01/the-true-value-of-cryptocurrency-is-freedom/
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« Reply #712 on: January 14, 2018, 12:39:33 PM »

So many people love shouting bubble Smiley

There are thousands of coins/tokens/companies in this space now, and from what i've seen a huge percentage of them are really lightweight, but still raising crazy money via dodgy unregulated investment vehicles (ICOs). So much FOMO that people are queueing up to get in "low" with a new token, regardless of the vapourware tech behind it or any sense of the distribution.

Within a relatively short time we'll start hearing some amazing stories about people pissing all this money up the wall on coke/women/boats or whatever as the businesses they are involved in burn down to nothing.

However there will be at least a handful of projects out there with tremendous future value. Unfortunately no one knows for sure which those are.

Personally I have a very small relative amount of cash involved (compared to house/pension/other investments), mainly as it's a kinda fun volatile thing to cheer on. Hearing people I know talk about getting decent money down, or even randoms in the media, does concern me though as there are going to be some depressing stories about those who get shaken out when all the NonsenseCoins disappear.





This is mostly right. I do however believe that the people more involved in understanding what the tech is about and what every coin they invest in is trying to do will more likely not end up being stranded when the tide recedes. So basically, people not throwing their money blindly have a better chance.

Regarding market cap, I've been talking about market cap of the entire crypto market. Bitcoin was around $2200 when this thread started but the entire market cap was at $25m (currently 700m, Korean markets have now been excluded from price averages which has brought the market down domewhat).

Who gives a fuck what Buffet says. The whole economy is obviously a bubble itself and the fact that people value their own money so little entices them to persue aggressive investments and to spend their money. The timing of the rise of crypto is rather spectacular- the bitcoin whitepaper was released a year after the crash of 2008.

Market cap 4 July 2017 $101bn
Market cap today $701bn

https://coinmarketcap.com/charts/

The price of bitcoin was around $2600 when it started,  I remembered having a discussion early on when it was about $3k.

https://uk.investing.com/currencies/btc-usd-historical-data

Interesting if you look at the top link, that bitcoin is much less dominant than it used to be only 6 months ago. 

I have no idea why you "don't give a fuck" what Buffet says.  He may not know the intricacies of the tech of all these different coins, but surely you can take on board his expertise in investing?  The same situation hasn't arisen before, but he has been doing this for 50 years, so you should give hime some sort of credit for all the things that he has witnessed? 

Surely some of those who have considered investing in cryptocurrencies and decided not to can say things that are worth listening to?  I think I mentioned it before, but I heard Doug Polk saying that he was on the luck out for talent for his crypto site, and he said "obviously" they should be invested in multiple coins.  There really isn't anything obvious about that statement.   The very best people to listen to may not fit that statement at all. 

And what is obvious about the whole economy been a bubble?  If I have a bar that makes $100k profit a year, then it clearly has some value.   If  I sell it for a million, then where is the bubble in that little bit of the economy?  Reasonable prices are paid for reasonable assets all the time.  Surely some of the economy is going to be a bubble at certain times, some of it isn't?  Same as it ever was.

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« Reply #713 on: January 15, 2018, 11:51:49 AM »

Bitcoin is the new Middle Ages

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/01/08/bitcoin-is-the-new-middle-ages/?utm_term=.7d6d49554c4

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« Reply #714 on: January 15, 2018, 11:53:00 AM »

"Bitcoin conference stops accepting bitcoin for tickets because turns out bitcoin is a rubbish payment system."

https://news.bitcoin.com/miami-bitcoin-conference-stops-accepting-bitcoin-due-to-fees-and-congestion/
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« Reply #715 on: January 15, 2018, 11:54:29 AM »

The bitcoin bubble is even more absurd than you could possibly imagine

says

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/13/style/bitcoin-millionaires.html

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« Reply #716 on: January 15, 2018, 01:07:19 PM »

Thanks for posting those links Tighty because they perfectly illustrate a few things.

-Largely the mainstream media is terrified of crypto. Mainstream media outlets are by and large owned by very rich old white men who are very happy with the status quo which has got them to where they are today. Mainstream media outlets would like to protect the way things are. They don't want a new technology to come in and disrupt and change things drastically. They produce sensationalist articles and play into people's existing confirmation biases. Also note how people who have made a lot of money out of crypto are also ridiculed in the mainstream press - as if that kind of person doesn't deserve to become successful and rich. Decentralised money and the separation of state and money are coming and ten years on from the financial sector being bailed out by world governments, they are now afraid of the speed and the growth of crpyto. Of course what they'd like more than anything is to get in on the action themselves and leverage a position where banks and big business make all the money and get all the benefits.

Example - The 'South Korean crypto ban' - nothing has actually changed. There's no trading ban on the Korean Crypto market and they will life the temporary ban on new accounts probably around the end of this week. The Koreans are enforcing digital checks and going after bad exchanges that are defrauding people, they are not banning the whole thing and would be very stupid to do so. This new has been out there since December but the way it has largely reported has been a 'crack down' on all Korean exchanges (some of the biggest in the world) and they would all likely be closed. Scaremongering which of course unsettled the market.

Secondly 90 or 95% of what the media writes is about Bitcoin, but it isn't even about Bitcoin anymore. Most people who are in any way clued up about Cryptocurrencies know that.

Bitcoin is number one on paper but there are over 1000 cryptocurrencies that have taken Bitcoin and expanded and improved on the original vision of it in various ways.

Comparing market caps - Ethereum is now about half of Bitcoin. But Ethereum was not intended to be a currency to be spent and is a platform that other Cryptos build on top of and if you add Ethereum's market cap to all of the ERC20 tokens that are running off Ethereum then it is bigger than Bitcoin. already. Bitcoin has hardly changed but the Blockchain technology it has introduced a new generation of start ups and investors. So it doesn't matter that Bitcoin is now a rubbish payment system. There is already a bunch of crypto payment systems that work better and as soon as people get past their Bitcoin blindness the better.

Cryptocurrency is a bubble that will burst to some degree and unfortunately a bunch of people have realised that this is great way to make some quick cash - so people are making their own shitcoins and even major existing companies are boosting their share prices by hinting they are someway going to be involved with crypto and blockchain. The technology isn't going disappear and neither is the passion of the people in the cryptospace. The value is going to go from speculative to utility as what happened with the dot coms and the growth of the internet. Some of these coins and tokens will be the new Amazon, Visa, Google in the near future.
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« Reply #717 on: January 15, 2018, 03:43:46 PM »

Decentralised money and the separation of state and money are coming and ten years on from the financial sector being bailed out by world governments

Can someone economicky explain why/if this is a good thing (nice and simply!)? Or point me in the direction of some articles discussing the economics of a decentralised currency as it applies to crypto? I assume it's being talked about somewhere.

I've heard it said that the the crash was largely a result of deregulation. Either way, it does seem like crypto embraces the libertarian ideal pretty heavily, which always seems to boil down to 'hands off and let capitalism do its thing', which never appealed to me much. Obviously massive problems with financial sector, but I've not really seen anything explaining why crypto/decentralisation would help.
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« Reply #718 on: January 15, 2018, 03:56:12 PM »

Thanks for posting those links Tighty because they perfectly illustrate a few things.

-Largely the mainstream media is terrified of crypto. Mainstream media outlets are by and large owned by very rich old white men who are very happy with the status quo which has got them to where they are today. Mainstream media outlets would like to protect the way things are. They don't want a new technology to come in and disrupt and change things drastically. They produce sensationalist articles and play into people's existing confirmation biases. Also note how people who have made a lot of money out of crypto are also ridiculed in the mainstream press - as if that kind of person doesn't deserve to become successful and rich. Decentralised money and the separation of state and money are coming and ten years on from the financial sector being bailed out by world governments, they are now afraid of the speed and the growth of crpyto. Of course what they'd like more than anything is to get in on the action themselves and leverage a position where banks and big business make all the money and get all the benefits.

Example - The 'South Korean crypto ban' - nothing has actually changed. There's no trading ban on the Korean Crypto market and they will life the temporary ban on new accounts probably around the end of this week. The Koreans are enforcing digital checks and going after bad exchanges that are defrauding people, they are not banning the whole thing and would be very stupid to do so. This new has been out there since December but the way it has largely reported has been a 'crack down' on all Korean exchanges (some of the biggest in the world) and they would all likely be closed. Scaremongering which of course unsettled the market.

Secondly 90 or 95% of what the media writes is about Bitcoin, but it isn't even about Bitcoin anymore. Most people who are in any way clued up about Cryptocurrencies know that.

Bitcoin is number one on paper but there are over 1000 cryptocurrencies that have taken Bitcoin and expanded and improved on the original vision of it in various ways.

Comparing market caps - Ethereum is now about half of Bitcoin. But Ethereum was not intended to be a currency to be spent and is a platform that other Cryptos build on top of and if you add Ethereum's market cap to all of the ERC20 tokens that are running off Ethereum then it is bigger than Bitcoin. already. Bitcoin has hardly changed but the Blockchain technology it has introduced a new generation of start ups and investors. So it doesn't matter that Bitcoin is now a rubbish payment system. There is already a bunch of crypto payment systems that work better and as soon as people get past their Bitcoin blindness the better.

Cryptocurrency is a bubble that will burst to some degree and unfortunately a bunch of people have realised that this is great way to make some quick cash - so people are making their own shitcoins and even major existing companies are boosting their share prices by hinting they are someway going to be involved with crypto and blockchain. The technology isn't going disappear and neither is the passion of the people in the cryptospace. The value is going to go from speculative to utility as what happened with the dot coms and the growth of the internet. Some of these coins and tokens will be the new Amazon, Visa, Google in the near future.

This happens with any disruptive technology, the same kind of things were said about cars when they were first developed, same about electricity and the same about the internet.
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« Reply #719 on: January 15, 2018, 04:09:55 PM »

Decentralised money and the separation of state and money are coming and ten years on from the financial sector being bailed out by world governments

Can someone economicky explain why/if this is a good thing (nice and simply!)? Or point me in the direction of some articles discussing the economics of a decentralised currency as it applies to crypto? I assume it's being talked about somewhere.

I've heard it said that the the crash was largely a result of deregulation. Either way, it does seem like crypto embraces the libertarian ideal pretty heavily, which always seems to boil down to 'hands off and let capitalism do its thing', which never appealed to me much. Obviously massive problems with financial sector, but I've not really seen anything explaining why crypto/decentralisation would help.

This guy is one of the pioneers of bitcoin and its worth checking out some of his videos/talks. He talks about this a lot in many of his speeches.

https://www.youtube.com/user/aantonop/videos

To answer your question breifly, mainly the arguments hinge around most of the world not having access to or stable banking.
Think lots of south American countries where the currency basically goes up in smoke and is not worth anything because of something the government does or the economy tanks (ala Valenzuela). Or recently India who just decided certain bank notes would no longer hold any value etc (it was something to do with the grey economy but still normal people got affected).

In the western world it is perhaps not as useful (as a pure currency) as we have access to relatively good day to day banking, but who knows things can change or your business or interests are not in line with current governments or the government changes.
For example when I started a poker coaching business and tried to get a Business bank account no high street bank would touch me due to it being poker related (mainly due to US laws I found out).  Or you have someone like VISA/mastercard who banned any transactions for wiki leaks under pressure from the US government.

EDIT: Also meant to say one of the benefits is its also peer to peer (and quick relative to banks) so you cut out the middle man. Various payment processors that take a margin.f I recall there are around 7 stakeholder involved in a VISA transaction for example. Banks that sit on your funds for 5 days when you do a payment, and charge rip off margins on fx etc. So it is supposed to make banking cheaper and faster also (though it's not at that point just yet).
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