FOBT's cut to £2 maximum stake

[tikay]

The 20 second limit isn't changing as far as i am aware just the stake.  The time limits are as they were.  Slots were never subject to this 20 second time limits because effectively the slot element of the FOBT is just the same as any £500 jackpot machine in a standard high st amusement arcade which is not subject to the 20 second FOBT time limit.  

Yep this review as far as I have read contains the following

£2 Stake cap FOBTs
Stronger Age Verification Procedures
Affordability Checks
Responsible Gambling message must now appear for the duration of TV adverts + another responsible gambling tv campaign to come
More research into the harm gambling can cause
Age of playing the National Lottery to rise from 16 to 18.

Regarding what the speed of play actually is, here's a video of a FOBT slot at £2 a go from April.

There you go, that'll solve everything.

[Horneris]

My sources tell me they are planning to replace them with I-Pads in store where you can access your online account and play on the casino, giving players the chance to deposit and withdraw in cash from the cashier.

[nirvana]

So much easier to chase your dough compared to shamefully looking the cashier in the eye as you handed over a wedge for some nag in the next at Sandown.

Really good point this, a bit like low stakes online poker versus live - easy to be out of control when no physical presence around to keep you in check.

Happy they take this off the high street in some ways but seems like's a diminishing return in addressing problem gambling as less and less people will rock up to a shop as time goes by anyway - unless they get a particular buzz from the environment and physically attacking machines.

I'd be pretty happy if they banned all online casino gambling, bingo,game of chance stuff which would do a lot more to address the issue.

[SuperJez]

Matt Chapman doing a pretty good interview with Mark Pearson of Betfred here.

"Has anyone ever come up to you and said ohhhhh I had so much fun playing a fobt this afternoon???" 

https://twitter.com/itvracing/status/997153979791429632

[Omm]

Should the predicted widespread closure of betting shops eventuate, there could be three unwelcome consequences for the sport. Firstly, there is likely to be a reduction in retail greyhound betting turnover, which would reduce the amount collected through the voluntary levy. Secondly, it is possible that there will be an adverse impact on the value of media rights received by tracks from retail operators. Finally, there may be an increase in online betting, which is largely unregulated and is currently outside of the scope of the voluntary levy.

Didn't realise the sport didn't get the same levy revenue from online vs offline. That is a shame and should be rectified.

Betfair and Sky are the main two that I have seen a lot said about. Not sure about b365. Strange seeing as Paddy pays which I only found out the other day and thought it abit odd that betfair wouldn’t pay anything.

[arbboy]

Should the predicted widespread closure of betting shops eventuate, there could be three unwelcome consequences for the sport. Firstly, there is likely to be a reduction in retail greyhound betting turnover, which would reduce the amount collected through the voluntary levy. Secondly, it is possible that there will be an adverse impact on the value of media rights received by tracks from retail operators. Finally, there may be an increase in online betting, which is largely unregulated and is currently outside of the scope of the voluntary levy.

Didn't realise the sport didn't get the same levy revenue from online vs offline. That is a shame and should be rectified.

Betfair and Sky are the main two that I have seen a lot said about. Not sure about b365. Strange seeing as Paddy pays which I only found out the other day and thought it abit odd that betfair wouldn’t pay anything.

betfair don't pay anything because of a long running sponsorship dispute from years ago over the trainers championship where they felt they got the piss taken out of them.  They have refused to pay anything voluntarily online until all other firms are forced to do the same.

365 pay as much as anyone does voluntarily.  

Should clarify this is greyhound online business contributions to the voluntary levy only as far as i am aware.  Nothing to do with horses

[arbboy]

Matt Chapman doing a pretty good interview with Mark Pearson of Betfred here.

"Has anyone ever come up to you and said ohhhhh I had so much fun playing a fobt this afternoon???"  

https://twitter.com/itvracing/status/997153979791429632

Mark Pearson is the most classless/clueless yes man PR man ever to exist in this game and there have been some terrible ones in recent years.  'We have to go away and look at the numbers' lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzz no you don't. You have fucked off horse racing sponsorship wise because fred threw his toys out of the pram over the race courses going it alone with their own tote this summer.  

Your whole business model is built of FOBT's and loan sharking your own staff in the staff room adverts via fred's loan sharking business.  You have zero OTC business in your shops worthy of keeping your show on the road.   I can't wait until your vile firm closes its shop in my town.  You paid a fortune for it from an indepedent in the mid 2000's based on turnover and profit figures from bets you would never accept and within a year it was nothing more than a FOBT den and all the real punters your business 'bought' weren't there anymore.  You must have countless other shops you are doing your nuts in compared to purchase price in the glory days without FOBT income.  

If only you are a PLC we could really see how much this law change would affect your business via the share price.  I have seen one guy iron out £5k in one of your FOBT's in one visit and no member of staff even moved from behind the counter to provide 'when the fun stops stop' advice.

John 'i am rochdale' Hill from lolorals springs to mind among numerous others.  Guess where he was trained prior to lolorals?  His suit, like Pearson's, gives it away.  I remember when you had to listen to his shocking dog comm's back in the day on SIS before tv pics when he got given the graveyard shifts.

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/john-hill-b11041104

[SuperJez]

Your whole business model is built of FOBT's and loan sharking your own staff in the staff room adverts via fred's loan sharking business.  You have zero OTC business in your shops worthy of keeping your show on the road.   I can't wait until your vile firm closes its shop in my town.  You paid a fortune for it from an indepedent in the mid 2000's based on turnover and profit figures from bets you would never accept and within a year it was nothing more than a FOBT den and all the real punters your business 'bought' weren't there anymore.  You must have countless other shops you are doing your nuts in compared to purchase price in the glory days without FOBT income.  

If only you are a PLC we could really see how much this law change would affect your business via the share price.  I have seen one guy iron out £5k in one of your FOBT's in one visit and no member of staff even moved from behind the counter to provide 'when the fun stops stop' advice.

Absolute disgrace the lot of them, targeting the poor and vulnerable.  Anyone involved with FOBTs should be ashamed of themselves frankly.

[SuperJez]

A date will be set for the £2 stake cut in the budget (apparently - source is The Mirror so make of that what you will)

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/philip-hammond-faces-embarrassing-parliamentary-13413037?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

EXCLUSIVE: Sources say Philip Hammond is planning to include a date for the £2 maximum FOBT stake when he deliverers his Budget later this month

[arbboy]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/08/gambling-industry-philip-hammond-fixed-odds-betting-terminals

https://www.theguardian.com/business/nils-pratley-on-finance/2018/nov/14/what-reason-philip-hammond-delay-fobt-reform-lobbyist

Couple of very good factual articles on the FOBT change which has been brought forward to April.  The tories really have looked to be in the back pocket of the big firms oover this with their embarrassing change of date being brought forward only because of mp revolt.

[arbboy]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/feb/05/ladbrokes-staff-told-to-sign-gamblers-to-online-accounts-to-avoid-redundancy

Incredible by lolbrokes if this is true.  Can they sink any further as a firm on their slow decent into bustoville? 

[SuperJez]

There isn't a violin in the world that's small enough for when this stake cut finally actually happens.

[arbboy]

There isn't a violin in the world that's small enough for when this stake cut finally actually happens.

I have been keeping an eye on betting shops recently and i have hardly seen a betting shop with anyone in them for weeks. 

[SuperJez]

I have been keeping an eye on betting shops recently and i have hardly seen a betting shop with anyone in them for weeks. 

That's good, I haven't been taking notice but from what I read closures are starting to happen.

Hills share price has roughly much been cut in half since the initial announcement and pressure to bring the timing forward.  Yes, I realise there are other reasons that can be blamed for this (America blah blah blah).  The cold hard truth is however they made a lot of money from these machines and now they won't make as much and it will happen sooner than originally expected, imo that is the main driving factor.

I still believe FOBT will continue to be a solid earner for these companies (despite not quite like the heydey).  The machines should be limited to whatever is legal in pubs these days.

On another note does anyone know when this self-regulating advertising during live games ban is actually going to come into effect?  I've had enough of that dick from the inbetweeners.

[arbboy]

Its a shame Lolbrokes are not still a stand alone company with their share price and market cap on full view for all to see.  God knows how far under £1bn the firm would be worth nowadays.  It is conveniently hidden in the new GVC holdings share price with all the other brands they own.  Given Hills have slumped to £1.5bn market cap and ppbf down to below £5bn (from nearly £8bn at the peak) lolbrokes must be nearly worthless now in the bigger picture of things.  Not sure how much ppbf slump is to do with FOBT's as only the PP arm has any exposure and it is relatively small compared to the shop heavy estates of the big 4 on the high st.

God knows what the value of Bald's empire has fallen to given they are a private firm and way more exposed to FOBT's than even the big three because their online business is so small.  Be interesting to see how many of his shops he closes as so many were only around from the start of the FOBT's and onwards.

Skybet and 365 literally have the game by the gonads.  Incredible to think it would end up like this 15 years ago but the FOBT's made every other rival they had so lax and reliant on the crack cocaine cash of gambling and taking their eye off the ball of the day job of doing what their business is licensed to do.  Bookmake not gaming.

Today's racing lockdown is just sending the shares into even bigger meltdown as Cheltenham is potentially under threat now.