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Author Topic: schoolgirl who joined IS but wants to come home.  (Read 13656 times)
BigAdz
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« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2019, 09:30:20 PM »

I don't think we should take an interview in any murdoch paper at face value either.


There is audio of the interview.


Unfortunately she doen't have dual nationality, so if she gets out of the camp and presents herself to British authorities, she will no doubt be allowed back to the UK. Then we just have the small cost of monitoring her 24/7, sigh.




There is selected clips from an interview of unknown length.  So we don'rlt really have an idea of the ratio of positive things to negative things she stated. She was 15 when she went there, and her life choices available once under ISIS control would be limited.

What do you think she has done? She made bad choices, but I don't think she comitted any terrorist acts, and I don't think anybody claims she has.   Whilst that likely makes her sympathetic towards terrorists, that doesn't make her a terrorist.  She probably has sime pretty unpleasant views, I accept that.  She is clearly a victim of a serious crime too; sure we'll get Tommy Robinson on soon giving his support, as he is big on supporting victims of grooming and child rape :/

Giving people a fair trial is one of those things that makes this Country great, not the jingoistic bullshit we hear too much these days.


Sadly, Doobs is somewhat reflective of the erudite liberal saying that we listen to too much bullshit, when he and his ilk are the ones spouting it.

She may have been 15 at the time, but 15 today is the 25 year old of my generation. They have far more access to make informed decisions and also take their medicine.

Lets be under no illusion, these girls knew exactly the sort of national shit storm this would and did cause. At 15 they knew what they were doing. They were conniving enough to know what they were doing in order to get to Syria. I see she has already lost 2 children.

Forgiveness and second chances are all well and good, but this isn't one of those cases. This is just taking the piss. She knows damn well our country is a soft touch, because people like Doobs are prepared to wrap stupidity up as being forgiving and worthy of second chances. Let us not forget what ISIS stands for and the horrendous things they perpetrate.

I don't read any papers any more, so can't be tarred, but it winds me up that these same liberals hide behind slagging off everything the mail et al, print as being made up, or one sided. Sometimes it just is what it is. Blaming them for the way they report it, or not liking their methods doesn't alter the fact, it can't always be made up.

Its typically shallow, and actually a somewhat Mailish to then drag Tommy Robinson in to then add some extra sauce to the reply, to then make people feel awkwardly aligned to him if they don't agree.

Poor form.

It is probabpy best if we don't start calling each other stupid.

I think she should be tried for the crimes she has committed, nothing more, nothing less
As a British citizen, she has the rights of a British citizen, whatever her religion, skin colour or beliefs.  I have not once said she should be forgiven, but she should have a fair trial and the evidence should be l presented if it is thought she has committed a crime.   She shouldn't be blamed for all the crimes of ISIS, just the ones she committed.  

At 15, she was a child under British law.   Do you think it is ok for a 25 year old to have sex with a 15 year old, as 15 is the new 25, or is it rape?  Should we have one law for her and one law for the Rochdale victims on this?   What do you think?



I'm guessing as I never called you stupid, in fact the complete opposite, you think I am?!!

Oh, the law is the law. Its still rape, but she knows that as well(as I said they appear to understand a lot more than a "naive" 15 year old), and has probably "facilitated" the act...probably.

I'm not sure why you bring the Rochdale victims into this. they didn't then all decide to go off to Syria in the glare of publicity. I also want the villans to be hung drawn and quartered(no doubt your punishment would be a short sentence, some rehab and back in society before Xmas....)

I'm not blaming her for the crimes of ISIS, but I would draw a comparison with knowing about the crimes and lifestyle of Fred and Rose West, and then deciding you want to go and live with them. It hardly paints a picture of good honest folk who may have been manipulated now does it.

We can go back to some of the Brexit type discusions and ask, do we leave people who have never been fighting for ISiS/helping them etc,on the streets, or give money and a home and benefits to a woman who has?

I noticied you didnt comment on my thoughts of you making Tommy Robinson comparisons.....
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 09:32:53 PM by BigAdz » Logged
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« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2019, 10:01:46 PM »

I don't think we should take an interview in any murdoch paper at face value either.


There is audio of the interview.


Unfortunately she doen't have dual nationality, so if she gets out of the camp and presents herself to British authorities, she will no doubt be allowed back to the UK. Then we just have the small cost of monitoring her 24/7, sigh.




There is selected clips from an interview of unknown length.  So we don'rlt really have an idea of the ratio of positive things to negative things she stated. She was 15 when she went there, and her life choices available once under ISIS control would be limited.

What do you think she has done? She made bad choices, but I don't think she comitted any terrorist acts, and I don't think anybody claims she has.   Whilst that likely makes her sympathetic towards terrorists, that doesn't make her a terrorist.  She probably has sime pretty unpleasant views, I accept that.  She is clearly a victim of a serious crime too; sure we'll get Tommy Robinson on soon giving his support, as he is big on supporting victims of grooming and child rape :/

Giving people a fair trial is one of those things that makes this Country great, not the jingoistic bullshit we hear too much these days.


Sadly, Doobs is somewhat reflective of the erudite liberal saying that we listen to too much bullshit, when he and his ilk are the ones spouting it.

She may have been 15 at the time, but 15 today is the 25 year old of my generation. They have far more access to make informed decisions and also take their medicine.

Lets be under no illusion, these girls knew exactly the sort of national shit storm this would and did cause. At 15 they knew what they were doing. They were conniving enough to know what they were doing in order to get to Syria. I see she has already lost 2 children.

Forgiveness and second chances are all well and good, but this isn't one of those cases. This is just taking the piss. She knows damn well our country is a soft touch, because people like Doobs are prepared to wrap stupidity up as being forgiving and worthy of second chances. Let us not forget what ISIS stands for and the horrendous things they perpetrate.

I don't read any papers any more, so can't be tarred, but it winds me up that these same liberals hide behind slagging off everything the mail et al, print as being made up, or one sided. Sometimes it just is what it is. Blaming them for the way they report it, or not liking their methods doesn't alter the fact, it can't always be made up.

Its typically shallow, and actually a somewhat Mailish to then drag Tommy Robinson in to then add some extra sauce to the reply, to then make people feel awkwardly aligned to him if they don't agree.

Poor form.

It is probabpy best if we don't start calling each other stupid.

I think she should be tried for the crimes she has committed, nothing more, nothing less
As a British citizen, she has the rights of a British citizen, whatever her religion, skin colour or beliefs.  I have not once said she should be forgiven, but she should have a fair trial and the evidence should be l presented if it is thought she has committed a crime.   She shouldn't be blamed for all the crimes of ISIS, just the ones she committed.  

At 15, she was a child under British law.   Do you think it is ok for a 25 year old to have sex with a 15 year old, as 15 is the new 25, or is it rape?  Should we have one law for her and one law for the Rochdale victims on this?   What do you think?



I'm guessing as I never called you stupid, in fact the complete opposite, you think I am?!!

Oh, the law is the law. Its still rape, but she knows that as well(as I said they appear to understand a lot more than a "naive" 15 year old), and has probably "facilitated" the act...probably.

I'm not sure why you bring the Rochdale victims into this. they didn't then all decide to go off to Syria in the glare of publicity. I also want the villans to be hung drawn and quartered(no doubt your punishment would be a short sentence, some rehab and back in society before Xmas....)

I'm not blaming her for the crimes of ISIS, but I would draw a comparison with knowing about the crimes and lifestyle of Fred and Rose West, and then deciding you want to go and live with them. It hardly paints a picture of good honest folk who may have been manipulated now does it.

We can go back to some of the Brexit type discusions and ask, do we leave people who have never been fighting for ISiS/helping them etc,on the streets, or give money and a home and benefits to a woman who has?

I noticied you didnt comment on my thoughts of you making Tommy Robinson comparisons.....

"people like Doobs are prepared to wrap stupidity..."   

The Rochdale victims were groomed into relationships with much older men in their early teens, so was she.  I am not saying they both went to Syria, just that they were all groomed and raped under British law.   It doesn't matter if a 15 year old "consented".   If you accept that, then you should see her as a rape and grooming victim, just like they were. 

She is clearly still pretty naive given some of the things she said in the interview, so it is pretty unlikely she fully understood what she was doing 4 years ago. 

I didn't comment on your Tommy Robinson comment, as comparing what I do to what the Mail does is so ludicrous that I didn't think it was worthy of comment. 

If it isn't clear after I have said it twice already, she should get a fair trial and whatever punishment befits the crimes she has committed; nothing more, nothing less.  We have anti-terrorism laws, and terrorists are not usually given rehab and are not usually back home for xmas. 
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« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2019, 10:12:10 PM »

I think it’s quite a good message to send that if you align and travel to be with the ideology of ISIS you should never be let back into the UK or face maximum criminal sanctions if you do.

Quite frankly fk her or anyone like her, zero fks given from me.
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« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2019, 10:28:03 PM »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47229181



In an interview with the Times, Shamima Begum, now 19, talked about seeing "beheaded heads" in bins - but said that it "did not faze her".




Tell her we will take the baby into care if she wants but she can piss off IMO.

Other people in this thread are where I would predict them. We hardly need to post, cos we all know each others' views. You're the one I'm surprised at - it's the first time I can remember strongly disagreeing with your opinion.
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BigAdz
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« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2019, 10:36:18 PM »

I don't think we should take an interview in any murdoch paper at face value either.


There is audio of the interview.


Unfortunately she doen't have dual nationality, so if she gets out of the camp and presents herself to British authorities, she will no doubt be allowed back to the UK. Then we just have the small cost of monitoring her 24/7, sigh.




There is selected clips from an interview of unknown length.  So we don'rlt really have an idea of the ratio of positive things to negative things she stated. She was 15 when she went there, and her life choices available once under ISIS control would be limited.

What do you think she has done? She made bad choices, but I don't think she comitted any terrorist acts, and I don't think anybody claims she has.   Whilst that likely makes her sympathetic towards terrorists, that doesn't make her a terrorist.  She probably has sime pretty unpleasant views, I accept that.  She is clearly a victim of a serious crime too; sure we'll get Tommy Robinson on soon giving his support, as he is big on supporting victims of grooming and child rape :/

Giving people a fair trial is one of those things that makes this Country great, not the jingoistic bullshit we hear too much these days.


Sadly, Doobs is somewhat reflective of the erudite liberal saying that we listen to too much bullshit, when he and his ilk are the ones spouting it.

She may have been 15 at the time, but 15 today is the 25 year old of my generation. They have far more access to make informed decisions and also take their medicine.

Lets be under no illusion, these girls knew exactly the sort of national shit storm this would and did cause. At 15 they knew what they were doing. They were conniving enough to know what they were doing in order to get to Syria. I see she has already lost 2 children.

Forgiveness and second chances are all well and good, but this isn't one of those cases. This is just taking the piss. She knows damn well our country is a soft touch, because people like Doobs are prepared to wrap stupidity up as being forgiving and worthy of second chances. Let us not forget what ISIS stands for and the horrendous things they perpetrate.

I don't read any papers any more, so can't be tarred, but it winds me up that these same liberals hide behind slagging off everything the mail et al, print as being made up, or one sided. Sometimes it just is what it is. Blaming them for the way they report it, or not liking their methods doesn't alter the fact, it can't always be made up.

Its typically shallow, and actually a somewhat Mailish to then drag Tommy Robinson in to then add some extra sauce to the reply, to then make people feel awkwardly aligned to him if they don't agree.

Poor form.

It is probabpy best if we don't start calling each other stupid.

I think she should be tried for the crimes she has committed, nothing more, nothing less
As a British citizen, she has the rights of a British citizen, whatever her religion, skin colour or beliefs.  I have not once said she should be forgiven, but she should have a fair trial and the evidence should be l presented if it is thought she has committed a crime.   She shouldn't be blamed for all the crimes of ISIS, just the ones she committed.  

At 15, she was a child under British law.   Do you think it is ok for a 25 year old to have sex with a 15 year old, as 15 is the new 25, or is it rape?  Should we have one law for her and one law for the Rochdale victims on this?   What do you think?



I'm guessing as I never called you stupid, in fact the complete opposite, you think I am?!!

Oh, the law is the law. Its still rape, but she knows that as well(as I said they appear to understand a lot more than a "naive" 15 year old), and has probably "facilitated" the act...probably.

I'm not sure why you bring the Rochdale victims into this. they didn't then all decide to go off to Syria in the glare of publicity. I also want the villans to be hung drawn and quartered(no doubt your punishment would be a short sentence, some rehab and back in society before Xmas....)

I'm not blaming her for the crimes of ISIS, but I would draw a comparison with knowing about the crimes and lifestyle of Fred and Rose West, and then deciding you want to go and live with them. It hardly paints a picture of good honest folk who may have been manipulated now does it.

We can go back to some of the Brexit type discusions and ask, do we leave people who have never been fighting for ISiS/helping them etc,on the streets, or give money and a home and benefits to a woman who has?

I noticied you didnt comment on my thoughts of you making Tommy Robinson comparisons.....

"people like Doobs are prepared to wrap stupidity..."   

The Rochdale victims were groomed into relationships with much older men in their early teens, so was she.  I am not saying they both went to Syria, just that they were all groomed and raped under British law.   It doesn't matter if a 15 year old "consented".   If you accept that, then you should see her as a rape and grooming victim, just like they were. 

She is clearly still pretty naive given some of the things she said in the interview, so it is pretty unlikely she fully understood what she was doing 4 years ago. 

I didn't comment on your Tommy Robinson comment, as comparing what I do to what the Mail does is so ludicrous that I didn't think it was worthy of comment. 

If it isn't clear after I have said it twice already, she should get a fair trial and whatever punishment befits the crimes she has committed; nothing more, nothing less.  We have anti-terrorism laws, and terrorists are not usually given rehab and are not usually back home for xmas. 



Not sure if you have heard but we do let British jihadists back into the country having being on the opposing side of the conflict.......many many of them without trial.

I'm guessing the minority on here dont have an issue with that either....
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« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2019, 10:42:00 PM »

JRM:

The presumption of innocence until proved guilty must apply to her as it does to anyone else” @Jacob_Rees_Mogg tells @afneil about Shamima Begum who left the UK to join the Islamic State, but wants to return


https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1096045001119653893
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« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2019, 11:29:19 PM »

The age of consent in Syria is 15
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im not speculating, either, but id have been pretty peeved if i missed the thread and i ended up getting clipped, kindly accepting a lift home.

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« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2019, 01:11:57 AM »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47229181



In an interview with the Times, Shamima Begum, now 19, talked about seeing "beheaded heads" in bins - but said that it "did not faze her".




Tell her we will take the baby into care if she wants but she can piss off IMO.

Other people in this thread are where I would predict them. We hardly need to post, cos we all know each others' views. You're the one I'm surprised at - it's the first time I can remember strongly disagreeing with your opinion.

I just think that it would be too dangerous to allow her to come back. How do we know she is not going to assist terrorists or radicalise to others?

I don't think she would even consider returning if things hadn't gone pear shaped for her.

I get the fair trial argument but even if found guilty I think any sentence we might hand down would be far too lenient, i.e. 9 years, out on licence in 3.

I also think that allowing her back would outrage and insult all those who have fought against or been victims of terrorism and would provoke a backlash against innocent Muslims.

I am aware that this is not the stance I would usually take and I fully respect the opinions of those who disagree.

I reserve the right to change my mind as further details emerge.


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« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2019, 07:11:35 AM »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47248555

Sajid Javid ‘If you have supported terrorist organisations abroad I will not hesitate to prevent your return’

‘We must remember that those who left Britain to join Daesh were full of hate for our country’
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« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2019, 07:56:53 AM »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47229181



In an interview with the Times, Shamima Begum, now 19, talked about seeing "beheaded heads" in bins - but said that it "did not faze her".




Tell her we will take the baby into care if she wants but she can piss off IMO.

Other people in this thread are where I would predict them. We hardly need to post, cos we all know each others' views. You're the one I'm surprised at - it's the first time I can remember strongly disagreeing with your opinion.

I just think that it would be too dangerous to allow her to come back. How do we know she is not going to assist terrorists or radicalise to others?

I don't think she would even consider returning if things hadn't gone pear shaped for her.

I get the fair trial argument but even if found guilty I think any sentence we might hand down would be far too lenient, i.e. 9 years, out on licence in 3.

I also think that allowing her back would outrage and insult all those who have fought against or been victims of terrorism and would provoke a backlash against innocent Muslims.

I am aware that this is not the stance I would usually take and I fully respect the opinions of those who disagree.

I reserve the right to change my mind as further details emerge.

I don't disagree with most of it, except the conclusion. I'm not sure it is even possible to refuse her entry if she is a British citizen and doesn't also belong to any other country.

Her statements seem naive rather than evil (though that is not necessarily a comfort, as she may be malleable by those with evil intentions in the future). She could be a sleeper with a long-term mission, but so could thousands of others. So far as I know, we aren't aware that she has ever even committed any crime - her journey may have involved some minor transgression and her support for a terrorist group is a serious issue, but we don't know of her actively doing anything other than being married to someone who is actively involved.
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« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2019, 08:03:10 AM »

If she does return it might be appropriate to put her on some kind of register so folk know where she lives like they do with sex offenders. The hand-wringing liberals may be aghast but what if you came home to find the head of a loved one in the dustbin and a non-plussed teen shrugging over the garden fence?
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« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2019, 09:04:48 AM »

Luke 15: 11-32
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« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2019, 09:09:06 AM »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47229181



In an interview with the Times, Shamima Begum, now 19, talked about seeing "beheaded heads" in bins - but said that it "did not faze her".




Tell her we will take the baby into care if she wants but she can piss off IMO.

Other people in this thread are where I would predict them. We hardly need to post, cos we all know each others' views. You're the one I'm surprised at - it's the first time I can remember strongly disagreeing with your opinion.

I just think that it would be too dangerous to allow her to come back. How do we know she is not going to assist terrorists or radicalise to others?

I don't think she would even consider returning if things hadn't gone pear shaped for her.

I get the fair trial argument but even if found guilty I think any sentence we might hand down would be far too lenient, i.e. 9 years, out on licence in 3.

I also think that allowing her back would outrage and insult all those who have fought against or been victims of terrorism and would provoke a backlash against innocent Muslims.

I am aware that this is not the stance I would usually take and I fully respect the opinions of those who disagree.

I reserve the right to change my mind as further details emerge.

I don't disagree with most of it, except the conclusion. I'm not sure it is even possible to refuse her entry if she is a British citizen and doesn't also belong to any other country.

Her statements seem naive rather than evil (though that is not necessarily a comfort, as she may be malleable by those with evil intentions in the future). She could be a sleeper with a long-term mission, but so could thousands of others. So far as I know, we aren't aware that she has ever even committed any crime - her journey may have involved some minor transgression and her support for a terrorist group is a serious issue, but we don't know of her actively doing anything other than being married to someone who is actively involved.


Lets hope she ends up next door to YOU, then we shall see quite how liberal you are about her as your curtain twitches every time you see her and any visitor she might get.....
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« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2019, 09:19:51 AM »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47248555

Sajid Javid ‘If you have supported terrorist organisations abroad I will not hesitate to prevent your return’

‘We must remember that those who left Britain to join Daesh were full of hate for our country’

Rather simple don't you think?   I struggle to raise more than a shrug when the fate of "the beatles" is discussed, but there are going to be huge variations in the motivations of those going to Syria.   Some will genuinely believe they were going for humanitarian reasons, some went intent on killing infidels.   She is somewhere imbetween.  Dare say Javid knows this, but has to play to the audience, and just putting lefties in a bad spot. Sure he knows that we also release people who have killed others after a few years, and some of those are going to reoffend.





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« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2019, 09:32:19 AM »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47248555

Sajid Javid ‘If you have supported terrorist organisations abroad I will not hesitate to prevent your return’

‘We must remember that those who left Britain to join Daesh were full of hate for our country’

Rather simple don't you think?   I struggle to raise more than a shrug when the fate of "the beatles" is discussed, but there are going to be huge variations in the motivations of those going to Syria.   Some will genuinely believe they were going for humanitarian reasons, some went intent on killing infidels.   She is somewhere imbetween.  Dare say Javid knows this, but has to play to the audience, and just putting lefties in a bad spot. Sure he knows that we also release people who have killed others after a few years, and some of those are going to reoffend.


Extremely simple, fk her......
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