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Author Topic: Tv Licenses for the over 75s  (Read 1455 times)
kukushkin88
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« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2019, 07:12:19 PM »

The cynical among us will reckon the BBC making this announcement during the Tory leadership campaign is no coincidence. Personally I think the licence fee is outdated , must be a better way to fund BBC?

This.
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Pokerpops
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« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2019, 07:49:22 AM »

The cynical among us will reckon the BBC making this announcement during the Tory leadership campaign is no coincidence. Personally I think the licence fee is outdated , must be a better way to fund BBC?

This.

How?

Please don’t suggest advertising.
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« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2019, 07:56:11 AM »

The cynical among us will reckon the BBC making this announcement during the Tory leadership campaign is no coincidence. Personally I think the licence fee is outdated , must be a better way to fund BBC?

This.

How?

Please don’t suggest advertising.

Why?

The common argument against is that we'll end up with TV like the US - but why should we end up with US level of advertising rather than Channel 4 level of advertising? (for example).

I've also accessed the BBC website in the US, where it contains advertising - it really wasn't that bad.

The alternative is a subscription based model - that would result in a lot smaller viewership and the channel would have to be cut back accordingly - a few years ago I would have argued strongly for the retention of government funding of the BBC because it was exceptional; but now it's pretty much just another major network. If it's going to act like a commercial broadcaster it probably should be treated as such.
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Jon "the British cowboy" Woodfield

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aaron1867
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« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2019, 09:03:08 AM »

Would it not be best for everyone involved to share the cost for pensioners? BBC 50%/Gov 50% or even split three ways between BBC/govt/pensioners?
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Jon MW
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« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2019, 09:22:43 AM »

Would it not be best for everyone involved to share the cost for pensioners? BBC 50%/Gov 50% or even split three ways between BBC/govt/pensioners?

I'm still not entirely clear exactly why all pensioners, no matter what, shouldn't have to pay for their own?

The original argument put forward was that it was to help against loneliness. It might be a bit harsh to exclude those who are still with their partners (even though this negates the argument for having them free) - but why should pensioners who can afford it not pay for their own licence?
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kukushkin88
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« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2019, 09:31:00 AM »

Would it not be best for everyone involved to share the cost for pensioners? BBC 50%/Gov 50% or even split three ways between BBC/govt/pensioners?

I'm still not entirely clear exactly why all pensioners, no matter what, shouldn't have to pay for their own?

The original argument put forward was that it was to help against loneliness. It might be a bit harsh to exclude those who are still with their partners (even though this negates the argument for having them free) - but why should pensioners who can afford it not pay for their own licence?

In spots like this, it’s usually because means testing it costs more than the thing itself.
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aaron1867
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« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2019, 09:35:48 AM »

Would it not be best for everyone involved to share the cost for pensioners? BBC 50%/Gov 50% or even split three ways between BBC/govt/pensioners?

I'm still not entirely clear exactly why all pensioners, no matter what, shouldn't have to pay for their own?

The original argument put forward was that it was to help against loneliness. It might be a bit harsh to exclude those who are still with their partners (even though this negates the argument for having them free) - but why should pensioners who can afford it not pay for their own licence?

Of course, those who can afford it should pay for it. I always remember Alan Sugar moaning about this, he receives the winter fuel allowance!

But perhaps share the cost for those who can’t afford it. All whilst Boris is wanting to give a tax cut for the richest...
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Jon MW
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« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2019, 09:48:02 AM »

Would it not be best for everyone involved to share the cost for pensioners? BBC 50%/Gov 50% or even split three ways between BBC/govt/pensioners?

I'm still not entirely clear exactly why all pensioners, no matter what, shouldn't have to pay for their own?

The original argument put forward was that it was to help against loneliness. It might be a bit harsh to exclude those who are still with their partners (even though this negates the argument for having them free) - but why should pensioners who can afford it not pay for their own licence?

Of course, those who can afford it should pay for it. I always remember Alan Sugar moaning about this, he receives the winter fuel allowance!

But perhaps share the cost for those who can’t afford it. All whilst Boris is wanting to give a tax cut for the richest...

Okay - that makes sense.

I don't think there's a strong argument for any benefit to be universal at the moment.
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Jon "the British cowboy" Woodfield

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« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2019, 09:56:46 AM »

Govt pensions will end up being means tested at some point in the future, probably no time soon but I’m convinced it will happen.....
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« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2019, 10:15:01 AM »

I've had a good think about this and I've decided that pensioners who can afford to pay for their own stuff should do so. I think I just like the notion of being nice and showing old people respect.

When we were young we had to call everyone who was a generation older than we were aunt or uncle.

Nowadays, lots of people call me uncle but I don't have to do it so much. I still automatically address people in their 80's and beyond as aunt & uncle though.
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« Reply #40 on: June 12, 2019, 11:37:24 AM »

I've had a good think about this and I've decided that pensioners who can afford to pay for their own stuff should do so. I think I just like the notion of being nice and showing old people respect.

When we were young we had to call everyone who was a generation older than we were aunt or uncle.

Nowadays, lots of people call me uncle but I don't have to do it so much. I still automatically address people in their 80's and beyond as aunt & uncle though.

I’m with you on this Red.
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« Reply #41 on: June 12, 2019, 01:02:42 PM »

Would it not be best for everyone involved to share the cost for pensioners? BBC 50%/Gov 50% or even split three ways between BBC/govt/pensioners?

I'm still not entirely clear exactly why all pensioners, no matter what, shouldn't have to pay for their own?

The original argument put forward was that it was to help against loneliness. It might be a bit harsh to exclude those who are still with their partners (even though this negates the argument for having them free) - but why should pensioners who can afford it not pay for their own licence?

In spots like this, it’s usually because means testing it costs more than the thing itself.

There is a much stronger argument that a lot of people just get put off by all the forms and paperwork, or just don't have the knowledge to understand they are owed benefits, or just don't want to be a burden.   Hence the basic state pension, and child benefit which are universal, or near universal, are pretty much claimed by all, but the pension credit misses lots of people who should be paid it.  It has always been that way with means testing, and was the same when I was much younger but with different benefits.

And of course a lot of this means testing costs a big chunk of the benefits paid, where as universal benefits are much cheaper to run, as kuku hints at.

I don't know what the solution is for TV licences, maybe just adjust the state pension and benefits, but it isn't easy because of the problems above.  It strikes me that you shouldn't be claiming stuff that you don't really need, or donating it away, but way too many people believe you should get whatever you can from the Government for that ever to work.

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Jon MW
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« Reply #42 on: June 12, 2019, 02:40:04 PM »

...
There is a much stronger argument that a lot of people just get put off by all the forms and paperwork, or just don't have the knowledge to understand they are owed benefits, or just don't want to be a burden.   Hence the basic state pension, and child benefit which are universal, or near universal, are pretty much claimed by all, but the pension credit misses lots of people who should be paid it.  It has always been that way with means testing, and was the same when I was much younger but with different benefits.

...


But if the logic is some people won't apply for pension credit so all pensioners should get a free TV licence
Doesn't exactly the same logic lead to the conclusion that all pensioners should just get the pension credit?
And housing benefit? And income support? And disability benefit?

Why is the TV licence the one that is randomly picked out?

Is it perhaps because it was only ever just a political fudge to try and buy votes without having to do anything which might constructively address the problem of pensioner poverty and loneliness in old age(?)


...

I don't know what the solution is for TV licences, maybe just adjust the state pension and benefits, but it isn't easy because of the problems above.  It strikes me that you shouldn't be claiming stuff that you don't really need, or donating it away, but way too many people believe you should get whatever you can from the Government for that ever to work.

To increase the state pension to cover the cost of the licence fee would be an increase of just over 2%
So .... less than what it is going to be increased by anyway; and less than what it has been increased by for several years.

NB: my father in law tried to refuse child benefit but was told that he wasn't allowed to  Cheesy - it's changed a bit since then but it does show there are people who have a problem with universal benefits that you can't opt out of.
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Jon "the British cowboy" Woodfield

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« Reply #43 on: June 12, 2019, 05:26:09 PM »

...
There is a much stronger argument that a lot of people just get put off by all the forms and paperwork, or just don't have the knowledge to understand they are owed benefits, or just don't want to be a burden.   Hence the basic state pension, and child benefit which are universal, or near universal, are pretty much claimed by all, but the pension credit misses lots of people who should be paid it.  It has always been that way with means testing, and was the same when I was much younger but with different benefits.

...


But if the logic is some people won't apply for pension credit so all pensioners should get a free TV licence
Doesn't exactly the same logic lead to the conclusion that all pensioners should just get the pension credit?
And housing benefit? And income support? And disability benefit?

Why is the TV licence the one that is randomly picked out?

Is it perhaps because it was only ever just a political fudge to try and buy votes without having to do anything which might constructively address the problem of pensioner poverty and loneliness in old age(?)


...

I don't know what the solution is for TV licences, maybe just adjust the state pension and benefits, but it isn't easy because of the problems above.  It strikes me that you shouldn't be claiming stuff that you don't really need, or donating it away, but way too many people believe you should get whatever you can from the Government for that ever to work.

To increase the state pension to cover the cost of the licence fee would be an increase of just over 2%
So .... less than what it is going to be increased by anyway; and less than what it has been increased by for several years.

NB: my father in law tried to refuse child benefit but was told that he wasn't allowed to  Cheesy - it's changed a bit since then but it does show there are people who have a problem with universal benefits that you can't opt out of.

Did you really think I meant increase the state pension by just the amount of the TV licence for this coming year?

I meant a one off adjustment, so that all pensioners get it and they can do what they like with it, whether it is a TV licence or green ink to use in their complaints to the Daily Mail about how their fathers thought in the war so they didn't have to pay the licence.  It means that the filthy rich like Jeremy Corbyn get an increase, but also those that need it get an increase to.  It doesn't have to be the full amount of the TV license, just something appropriate.  And by my suggestion, you can take it as read that I don't think it should have been done this way in the first place.  There really isn't a good reason I can think of that poor pensioners get this, and poor working people don't.

FWIW You can opt-out of child benefit now.  I have had an uneven work pattern over the years, but never once thought about claiming benefits, and my mum has always been terrible at taking them.
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cish n fhips
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« Reply #44 on: June 12, 2019, 06:44:09 PM »

I refuse to pay for a TV licence.I detest the bbc and i tell them every time they
INVITE me to join the TV licence club......
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