How many Fu**ing times is it going to happen?

[RED-DOG]

One of them had been there for nearly 45 mins, which you can see from the full video.

We saw the rolling around and wrestling part, then him slip off and turn to fire.

So he hit him twice, and I presume he'll be charged with manslaughter.

All ifs/buts/maybes etc. I think going on the way he was treated throughout, they'd have shot whoever it was had the same happened.

Think the biggest factor is that police need better training and vetting.

Sad situation all around.

Think the biggest factor is systemic racism.

All about opinions Marky , be boring if we all had the same 

Oh, I don't disagree on that being a factor overall.

I was talking about this incident in isolation.

That would be fair comment if this was an isolated incident.

It's fair comment anyway.

I don't think that racism came into play in anyway, in this incident.

I'd like to sit on the fence.  If you are black, I think you are more likely to be killed, but you can't say for certain it happened here. 

I don't want to watch the video again, but is the shooter the bloke who shot him the same bloke who lost his taser?  If he'd normally reach for his taser, and been trained to reach for his taser, I can see why he'd reach for his gun in a high pressure situation.  I don't think any amount of training stops people doing stupid things when under presssure.  I don't think tasers are as safe as we are told and I wouldn't want one pointed at me anyway.  If you had a taser, you'd likely use that to defend yourself?

Anyway, there are a lot of videos where the guilt/racism is clearer. I don't think he should have been shot, but can understand it.  It may have been related to racism, oy may not have been.

It's difficult to claim self-defence if you shoot someone in the back.

Twice.

[bookiebasher]

The officer had his taser in his right hand . He switched it to his left hand so he could
reach for his gun with his right hand .

[Doobs]

One of them had been there for nearly 45 mins, which you can see from the full video.

We saw the rolling around and wrestling part, then him slip off and turn to fire.

So he hit him twice, and I presume he'll be charged with manslaughter.

All ifs/buts/maybes etc. I think going on the way he was treated throughout, they'd have shot whoever it was had the same happened.

Think the biggest factor is that police need better training and vetting.

Sad situation all around.

Think the biggest factor is systemic racism.

All about opinions Marky , be boring if we all had the same 

Oh, I don't disagree on that being a factor overall.

I was talking about this incident in isolation.

That would be fair comment if this was an isolated incident.

It's fair comment anyway.

I don't think that racism came into play in anyway, in this incident.

I'd like to sit on the fence.  If you are black, I think you are more likely to be killed, but you can't say for certain it happened here. 

I don't want to watch the video again, but is the shooter the bloke who shot him the same bloke who lost his taser?  If he'd normally reach for his taser, and been trained to reach for his taser, I can see why he'd reach for his gun in a high pressure situation.  I don't think any amount of training stops people doing stupid things when under presssure.  I don't think tasers are as safe as we are told and I wouldn't want one pointed at me anyway.  If you had a taser, you'd likely use that to defend yourself?

Anyway, there are a lot of videos where the guilt/racism is clearer. I don't think he should have been shot, but can understand it.  It may have been related to racism, oy may not have been.

It's difficult to claim self-defence if you shoot someone in the back.

Twice.

I know he has been hit in the back, but also know he has waived a weapon that can kill the cop.  I'd say it looks likely he does claim self defence, so not sure why you think it is difficult for him to claim it.  I don't know all the US self defence laws, but even under ours, you could argue he used reasonable force (you can't shoot someone for stealing your stuff, but can if you feel your life is in danger). The jury would have to find him guilty beyond reasonable doubt, so that doesn't seem a certainty.  

[RED-DOG]

One of them had been there for nearly 45 mins, which you can see from the full video.

We saw the rolling around and wrestling part, then him slip off and turn to fire.

So he hit him twice, and I presume he'll be charged with manslaughter.

All ifs/buts/maybes etc. I think going on the way he was treated throughout, they'd have shot whoever it was had the same happened.

Think the biggest factor is that police need better training and vetting.

Sad situation all around.

Think the biggest factor is systemic racism.

All about opinions Marky , be boring if we all had the same 

Oh, I don't disagree on that being a factor overall.

I was talking about this incident in isolation.

That would be fair comment if this was an isolated incident.

It's fair comment anyway.

I don't think that racism came into play in anyway, in this incident.

I'd like to sit on the fence.  If you are black, I think you are more likely to be killed, but you can't say for certain it happened here. 

I don't want to watch the video again, but is the shooter the bloke who shot him the same bloke who lost his taser?  If he'd normally reach for his taser, and been trained to reach for his taser, I can see why he'd reach for his gun in a high pressure situation.  I don't think any amount of training stops people doing stupid things when under presssure.  I don't think tasers are as safe as we are told and I wouldn't want one pointed at me anyway.  If you had a taser, you'd likely use that to defend yourself?

Anyway, there are a lot of videos where the guilt/racism is clearer. I don't think he should have been shot, but can understand it.  It may have been related to racism, oy may not have been.

It's difficult to claim self-defence if you shoot someone in the back.

Twice.

I know he has been hit in the back, but also know he has waived a weapon that can kill the cop.  I'd say it looks likely he does claim self defence, so not sure why you think it is difficult for him to claim it.  I don't know all the US self defence laws, but even under ours, you could argue he used reasonable force (you can't shoot someone for stealing your stuff, but can if you feel your life is in danger). The jury would have to find him guilty beyond reasonable doubt, so that doesn't seem a certainty.  

I refer you to the lump of concrete post that I made some hours ago.

[Doobs]

The officer had his taser in his right hand . He switched it to his left hand so he could
reach for his gun with his right hand .

Ah, ok that changes things, but Atlanta has stand your ground laws.  That means it is easier to claim self defence there than here?   I am not defending stand your ground laws, they seem ridiculous, but that is their law.

[Doobs]

One of them had been there for nearly 45 mins, which you can see from the full video.

We saw the rolling around and wrestling part, then him slip off and turn to fire.

So he hit him twice, and I presume he'll be charged with manslaughter.

All ifs/buts/maybes etc. I think going on the way he was treated throughout, they'd have shot whoever it was had the same happened.

Think the biggest factor is that police need better training and vetting.

Sad situation all around.

Think the biggest factor is systemic racism.

All about opinions Marky , be boring if we all had the same 

Oh, I don't disagree on that being a factor overall.

I was talking about this incident in isolation.

That would be fair comment if this was an isolated incident.

It's fair comment anyway.

I don't think that racism came into play in anyway, in this incident.

I'd like to sit on the fence.  If you are black, I think you are more likely to be killed, but you can't say for certain it happened here. 

I don't want to watch the video again, but is the shooter the bloke who shot him the same bloke who lost his taser?  If he'd normally reach for his taser, and been trained to reach for his taser, I can see why he'd reach for his gun in a high pressure situation.  I don't think any amount of training stops people doing stupid things when under presssure.  I don't think tasers are as safe as we are told and I wouldn't want one pointed at me anyway.  If you had a taser, you'd likely use that to defend yourself?

Anyway, there are a lot of videos where the guilt/racism is clearer. I don't think he should have been shot, but can understand it.  It may have been related to racism, oy may not have been.

It's difficult to claim self-defence if you shoot someone in the back.

Twice.

I know he has been hit in the back, but also know he has waived a weapon that can kill the cop.  I'd say it looks likely he does claim self defence, so not sure why you think it is difficult for him to claim it.  I don't know all the US self defence laws, but even under ours, you could argue he used reasonable force (you can't shoot someone for stealing your stuff, but can if you feel your life is in danger). The jury would have to find him guilty beyond reasonable doubt, so that doesn't seem a certainty.  

I refer you to the lump of concrete post that I made some hours ago.

https://statelaws.findlaw.com/georgia-law/georgia-self-defense-laws.html

[RED-DOG]

One of them had been there for nearly 45 mins, which you can see from the full video.

We saw the rolling around and wrestling part, then him slip off and turn to fire.

So he hit him twice, and I presume he'll be charged with manslaughter.

All ifs/buts/maybes etc. I think going on the way he was treated throughout, they'd have shot whoever it was had the same happened.

Think the biggest factor is that police need better training and vetting.

Sad situation all around.

Think the biggest factor is systemic racism.

All about opinions Marky , be boring if we all had the same 

Oh, I don't disagree on that being a factor overall.

I was talking about this incident in isolation.

That would be fair comment if this was an isolated incident.

It's fair comment anyway.

I don't think that racism came into play in anyway, in this incident.

I'd like to sit on the fence.  If you are black, I think you are more likely to be killed, but you can't say for certain it happened here. 

I don't want to watch the video again, but is the shooter the bloke who shot him the same bloke who lost his taser?  If he'd normally reach for his taser, and been trained to reach for his taser, I can see why he'd reach for his gun in a high pressure situation.  I don't think any amount of training stops people doing stupid things when under presssure.  I don't think tasers are as safe as we are told and I wouldn't want one pointed at me anyway.  If you had a taser, you'd likely use that to defend yourself?

Anyway, there are a lot of videos where the guilt/racism is clearer. I don't think he should have been shot, but can understand it.  It may have been related to racism, oy may not have been.

It's difficult to claim self-defence if you shoot someone in the back.

Twice.

I know he has been hit in the back, but also know he has waived a weapon that can kill the cop.  I'd say it looks likely he does claim self defence, so not sure why you think it is difficult for him to claim it.  I don't know all the US self defence laws, but even under ours, you could argue he used reasonable force (you can't shoot someone for stealing your stuff, but can if you feel your life is in danger). The jury would have to find him guilty beyond reasonable doubt, so that doesn't seem a certainty.  

I refer you to the lump of concrete post that I made some hours ago.

https://statelaws.findlaw.com/georgia-law/georgia-self-defense-laws.html

My original question was, "Did they need to kill him?" not "Could they get away with killing him?"

[Marky147]

I'd like to sit on the fence.  If you are black, I think you are more likely to be killed, but you can't say for certain it happened here. 

I don't want to watch the video again, but is the shooter the bloke who shot him the same bloke who lost his taser?  If he'd normally reach for his taser, and been trained to reach for his taser, I can see why he'd reach for his gun in a high pressure situation.  I don't think any amount of training stops people doing stupid things when under presssure.  I don't think tasers are as safe as we are told and I wouldn't want one pointed at me anyway.  If you had a taser, you'd likely use that to defend yourself?

Anyway, there are a lot of videos where the guilt/racism is clearer. I don't think he should have been shot, but can understand it.  It may have been related to racism, oy may not have been.

Think that summarises things pretty much how I view them, too.

I looked at a shorter video that showed the struggle before he runs off, and it looks like he got the taser of the first officer, and it sounds like he fires it at the cop who shot him.

Do they have one shot?

The officer who had shot him had fired the taser prior to the chase, and had it in his hand chasing him.

Glad I don't have to make decisions like that. I struggle to pick out what I want for dinner most days.

[Doobs]

One of them had been there for nearly 45 mins, which you can see from the full video.

We saw the rolling around and wrestling part, then him slip off and turn to fire.

So he hit him twice, and I presume he'll be charged with manslaughter.

All ifs/buts/maybes etc. I think going on the way he was treated throughout, they'd have shot whoever it was had the same happened.

Think the biggest factor is that police need better training and vetting.

Sad situation all around.

Think the biggest factor is systemic racism.

All about opinions Marky , be boring if we all had the same 

Oh, I don't disagree on that being a factor overall.

I was talking about this incident in isolation.

That would be fair comment if this was an isolated incident.

It's fair comment anyway.

I don't think that racism came into play in anyway, in this incident.

I'd like to sit on the fence.  If you are black, I think you are more likely to be killed, but you can't say for certain it happened here. 

I don't want to watch the video again, but is the shooter the bloke who shot him the same bloke who lost his taser?  If he'd normally reach for his taser, and been trained to reach for his taser, I can see why he'd reach for his gun in a high pressure situation.  I don't think any amount of training stops people doing stupid things when under presssure.  I don't think tasers are as safe as we are told and I wouldn't want one pointed at me anyway.  If you had a taser, you'd likely use that to defend yourself?

Anyway, there are a lot of videos where the guilt/racism is clearer. I don't think he should have been shot, but can understand it.  It may have been related to racism, oy may not have been.

It's difficult to claim self-defence if you shoot someone in the back.

Twice.

I know he has been hit in the back, but also know he has waived a weapon that can kill the cop.  I'd say it looks likely he does claim self defence, so not sure why you think it is difficult for him to claim it.  I don't know all the US self defence laws, but even under ours, you could argue he used reasonable force (you can't shoot someone for stealing your stuff, but can if you feel your life is in danger). The jury would have to find him guilty beyond reasonable doubt, so that doesn't seem a certainty.  

I refer you to the lump of concrete post that I made some hours ago.

https://statelaws.findlaw.com/georgia-law/georgia-self-defense-laws.html

My original question was, "Did they need to kill him?" not "Could they get away with killing him?"

So I should seek out whatever comments you made anywhere else before replying to my thoughts on the difficulties of claiming self defense?  

I don't think they should have killed him, I said so in the post you replied to.  So it seems I inadverently answered the question I never saw.

[RED-DOG]

One of them had been there for nearly 45 mins, which you can see from the full video.

We saw the rolling around and wrestling part, then him slip off and turn to fire.

So he hit him twice, and I presume he'll be charged with manslaughter.

All ifs/buts/maybes etc. I think going on the way he was treated throughout, they'd have shot whoever it was had the same happened.

Think the biggest factor is that police need better training and vetting.

Sad situation all around.

Think the biggest factor is systemic racism.

All about opinions Marky , be boring if we all had the same 

Oh, I don't disagree on that being a factor overall.

I was talking about this incident in isolation.

That would be fair comment if this was an isolated incident.

It's fair comment anyway.

I don't think that racism came into play in anyway, in this incident.

I'd like to sit on the fence.  If you are black, I think you are more likely to be killed, but you can't say for certain it happened here. 

I don't want to watch the video again, but is the shooter the bloke who shot him the same bloke who lost his taser?  If he'd normally reach for his taser, and been trained to reach for his taser, I can see why he'd reach for his gun in a high pressure situation.  I don't think any amount of training stops people doing stupid things when under presssure.  I don't think tasers are as safe as we are told and I wouldn't want one pointed at me anyway.  If you had a taser, you'd likely use that to defend yourself?

Anyway, there are a lot of videos where the guilt/racism is clearer. I don't think he should have been shot, but can understand it.  It may have been related to racism, oy may not have been.

It's difficult to claim self-defence if you shoot someone in the back.

Twice.

I know he has been hit in the back, but also know he has waived a weapon that can kill the cop.  I'd say it looks likely he does claim self defence, so not sure why you think it is difficult for him to claim it.  I don't know all the US self defence laws, but even under ours, you could argue he used reasonable force (you can't shoot someone for stealing your stuff, but can if you feel your life is in danger). The jury would have to find him guilty beyond reasonable doubt, so that doesn't seem a certainty.  

I refer you to the lump of concrete post that I made some hours ago.

https://statelaws.findlaw.com/georgia-law/georgia-self-defense-laws.html

My original question was, "Did they need to kill him?" not "Could they get away with killing him?"

So I should seek out whatever comments you made anywhere else before replying to my thoughts on the difficulties of claiming self defense?  

I don't think they should have killed him, I said so in the post you replied to.  So it seems I inadverently answered the question I never saw.

It seems I might have rubbed you up the wrong way. Not my intention at all.

I'm aware that I can be a but abrupt sometimes.

[Doobs]

One of them had been there for nearly 45 mins, which you can see from the full video.

We saw the rolling around and wrestling part, then him slip off and turn to fire.

So he hit him twice, and I presume he'll be charged with manslaughter.

All ifs/buts/maybes etc. I think going on the way he was treated throughout, they'd have shot whoever it was had the same happened.

Think the biggest factor is that police need better training and vetting.

Sad situation all around.

Think the biggest factor is systemic racism.

All about opinions Marky , be boring if we all had the same 

Oh, I don't disagree on that being a factor overall.

I was talking about this incident in isolation.

That would be fair comment if this was an isolated incident.

It's fair comment anyway.

I don't think that racism came into play in anyway, in this incident.

I'd like to sit on the fence.  If you are black, I think you are more likely to be killed, but you can't say for certain it happened here. 

I don't want to watch the video again, but is the shooter the bloke who shot him the same bloke who lost his taser?  If he'd normally reach for his taser, and been trained to reach for his taser, I can see why he'd reach for his gun in a high pressure situation.  I don't think any amount of training stops people doing stupid things when under presssure.  I don't think tasers are as safe as we are told and I wouldn't want one pointed at me anyway.  If you had a taser, you'd likely use that to defend yourself?

Anyway, there are a lot of videos where the guilt/racism is clearer. I don't think he should have been shot, but can understand it.  It may have been related to racism, oy may not have been.

It's difficult to claim self-defence if you shoot someone in the back.

Twice.

I know he has been hit in the back, but also know he has waived a weapon that can kill the cop.  I'd say it looks likely he does claim self defence, so not sure why you think it is difficult for him to claim it.  I don't know all the US self defence laws, but even under ours, you could argue he used reasonable force (you can't shoot someone for stealing your stuff, but can if you feel your life is in danger). The jury would have to find him guilty beyond reasonable doubt, so that doesn't seem a certainty.  

I refer you to the lump of concrete post that I made some hours ago.

https://statelaws.findlaw.com/georgia-law/georgia-self-defense-laws.html

My original question was, "Did they need to kill him?" not "Could they get away with killing him?"

So I should seek out whatever comments you made anywhere else before replying to my thoughts on the difficulties of claiming self defense?  

I don't think they should have killed him, I said so in the post you replied to.  So it seems I inadverently answered the question I never saw.

It seems I might have rubbed you up the wrong way. Not my intention at all.

I'm aware that I can be a but abrupt sometimes.

It seems we both rubbed each other up the wrong way and we can both be abrupt at times.  I had my first job interview in an age earlier this afternoon, so was probably a bit too stressed.

Just seen the Marcus Rashford news, It has cheered me up a lot. 

[bookiebasher]

I blame it all on Marky .

As Tikay would say , he’s a wrong un .

[Marky147]

I blame it all on Marky .

As Tikay would say , he’s a wrong un .

Guilty as charged 

[Marky147]

Having watched it a couple more times, and thought about it most of last night.

I think he should have tried catching him on foot, or just let him Forrest Gump it out of there as you said.

Think what I said yesterday afternoon is definitely something that should be looked at, for all police forces.

Compulsory BJJ training, so they aren't going to struggle like that with random drunks.

[bookiebasher]

https://twitter.com/iam_johnw/status/1273205447462400011?s=20

Words fail me.