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Author Topic: JJprodigy  (Read 13947 times)
Royal Flush
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« on: February 19, 2006, 05:25:42 PM »

I dunno if any of you have followed the happening since last weekend or not but i will try to explain it all. I know this is a long post but well worth it!

There is a succesful player who goes under the name JJprodigy, he used to be a mod on 2+2 and now posts on pocketfives.

Anyway he won the big comp on party last weekend, only under a diffrent name, a big debate kicked off on 2+2 about how he had used 2 accounts in 1 comp, he defended this by saying it was his grandmother playing and he took over when he was knocked out....i have copied his post:

To understand my scenario, you must first understand my day. I picked up my brand new expensive computer from a computer store today (I tried to build it, without knowing anything abotu CPUs, I suck!). I got home about an hour before the MTTs start, and it was very hectic, and I was stressing out a ton. My Grandparents come to the house every weekend. My Grandma is an absolute poker fanatic, and I try to teach her how to play just due to her sheer enthusiasm. I stake her occasionaly, as much -EV as it is. I'll be honest, I do not conserve money the best. I staked her to play the 500k at Party. A few hours later, I bust out of Party, and am only playing 1 MTT. Finally, I am relaxed. I see that she has amassed a decent stack. I start coaching her every hand. Once she got to aobut 10k in chips, I took over, still talking to her. When I got to 100k (tripled from 33k), I asked her to leave the room, and she could watch me on the laptop. I do get nervous and emotional when I get deep, and I figured I had a real shot at it. Of course, my grandma being the kind soul that she is obliged. Before I know it, I won the thing. I am thinking of buying her a new car, but I haven't put much thought to it.

I didn't really realize people would make that big of a deal of it until 10 people started IMing me telling me to prepare for shit. Curse at me, hate me, flame me. I can't say that I do expect less.

But, I just won 140k! Not even all this flaming can take away the amazing feeling I have right now




Now over the last few days Party have acted on a whole load of complaints and carried out an investigation, the conclusion of which was that he was indeed cheating, he has had the $140,000 win taken away from his 2nd acct, and they have also cleared out his normal acct, 'JJprodigy' another $40,000!!!

He has come clean though now and published his e-mails with party:

Alright, so here it is.

The account 'ABlackCar' was not made for multi-accounting. It was intentionally made for my grandma for her birthday present. However, it was never given to her. So, I had an extra account. Yes, I multi-tabled. Yes, it is incredibly easy. Yes, many people do it was . You really have no idea about the situation.

About 2 months ago, I thought it was just a really bad idea like everyone else. A lot of my friends did it, and i always gave them a hard time for it. But, I had a conversation with a player where we decided it would be a lot of +EV to not be known when you are playing MTTs. So, basically, I had a spare account with tons of +EV in it. So many poeple did it with no reprocautions. I know someone who had over 10 accounts in a recent million guaranteed. Party has no idea.

So, back to the day of the win. When there was about 30 left, I started telling all these people I was in. I was too much caught up in the moment, and it was a really stupid thing to do in hindsight. It slipped out, and everyone knew. The account was in the name of my grandma, and it was intended for her to play in, so that was the easiest excuse for me. I apologize for lieing to everyone. I really do. When such a large amount of money is on the line, it's really tough to be loyal to morals.

The next morning, both accounts were close. Today, they took away all the money. The roughly 40k in JJProdigy, and the 140k in ABlackCar. The following is what I was e-mailed by Party:

Josh,

The PartyPoker.com investigations team opened an investigation on accounts JJProdigy and ABlackCar relating to suspicious activities during the February 12th $500K Guaranteed Tournament. The investigation was initially triggered by the investigations team as a result of a ýcommon informationý alert, IP and computer. Although the investigation was initiated internally, customer service began receiving complaints/concerns regarding this situation starting on February 13th.
With this investigation, the complaints and alerts pointed to multiple accounts being played from the same location in the same tournament.

The accounts involved in the investigation:
Account JJProdgy was created on November 4th, 2004.
Account ABlackCar was created on December 31st, 2005.

Note: The account ABlackCar was not created until December 31st, 2005, therefore all previous data was not used in the investigation unless found to be relevant.

When investigating the location of where an account is played from, there are two identifying factors that are taken into account.
A specific computer is traced by a unique computer identification number.
An Internet Protocol (IP) address is the address that an internet service provider uses to identify and trace the location of a computer.

From December 31st, 2005 until February 11th, both accounts only used the IP address xxxxxxx, which traces to xxxxxx, . Both accounts only used a computer with the same identifier. These are referred to as the xxxxxx IP and computer.

Account ABlackCar was created from the Home IP and computer on December 31st, 2005. On dates of January 1st, 3rd, 5th, 15th and February 6th, 7th and 9th ABlackCar logged into the Home IP and computer and registered and played in a total of nine tournaments. All of these tournaments had a buy-in of $100 or more.

Account JJProdigy was logged into from the Home IP and computer on the same dates and registered and played in the same tournaments.
Both of these accounts were played from the same computer and the same IP address in the same tournaments.

The tournament in question took placed on February 12th. At 13:54 ET account JJProdigy logged into a different computer, but from the Home IP, and registered for the $500k Guaranteed Tournament. That account then logged out and back in on the Home computer at 15:18. $215 was transferred to account ABlackCar at 15:27. At 15:32 account ABlackCar logged onto the Home IP and computer and registered for the same $500k Tournament.

Both accounts started playing the $500k Tournament from the Home IP and computer.

Summary:

This indisputable evidence led to the conclusion that both accounts had played several tournaments together from the same computer located in the same location.

Account ABlackCar, although registered in a different name, is believed to have been created with the sole intention of playing multiple accounts in the same tournaments. Both accounts were consistently logged into at the same time and show a consistent pattern of being played by the same person.

Conclusion:

A decision has been made, in consultation with the Poker Room Manager, Legal and Management, to close both accounts and confiscate all funds. Funds gathered by this deception will be refunded to the players that were affected.

Regards,

Francis Hamilton,
Investigations Team
alerts@PartyPoker.com
PartyPoker.com

The next one is:


Although we did not need such admission given the overwhelming evidence of cheating that you provided to me, Mr Fields’ admission certainly helps us feel even more confident that we have taken the right action. Mr Field’s assertion that this is permitted is completely untrue. Term 5 of our terms and conditions states:



5. True Identity and One Account.

The name on your Account must match your true and legal name and identity and the name on your PartyPoker.com Account registration must match the name on the credit card(s) or other payment accounts used to deposit or receive monies in your Account. You are prohibited from holding more than one Account at PartyPoker.com.



This means that Mr Field is in breach of our terms and conditions by holding more than one account in different names. This term is included in our terms and conditions to prevent player cheating and fraud.



Furthermore, our terms also state (relevant sections highlighted in blue):



“6. Rules and Procedures of the Games.

You must play the Games pursuant to the generally accepted casino and poker rules set out in the Game Rules section, and the procedures specifically set out in the, the Games Section of the PartyPoker.com website, including but not limited to How to Play, Table Stakes, Tournaments, Tournament Rules, Poker Etiquette section and any other page on PartyPoker.com that specifically relates to and governs any particular event, game or tournament.





19. Fraudulent Activities and Prohibited Transactions.

The Company has a zero tolerance policy towards inappropriate play and fraudulent activity. If, in the Company's sole determination, you are found to have cheated or attempted to defraud the Company or any other user of any of the Games in any way including but not limited to game manipulation or payment fraud, or if the Company suspects you of fraudulent payment, including use of stolen credit cards, or any other fraudulent activity (including any chargeback or other reversal of a payment) or prohibited transaction (including money laundering), the Company reserve’s the right to suspend and/or close your Account and to share this information (together with your identity) to other online gaming sites, banks, credit card companies, and appropriate agencies.

….

21. Forfeiture & Account Closure.

21.1 THE COMPANY RESERVES THE RIGHT, IN ITS UNFETTERED DISCRETION AND IN RELATION TO YOUR ACCOUNT, ANY RELATED ESP ACCOUNT, ANY ACCOUNTS YOU MAY HAVE WITH OTHER SITES AND/OR CASINOS AND/OR SERVICES OWNED OR OPERATED BY OR ON BEHALF OF THE COMPANY AND ANY SERVICES THAT SHARE THE SHARED GAME/TABLE PLATFORM, TO WITHHOLD YOUR ACCOUNT BALANCE, SUSPEND YOUR ACCOUNT, AND RECOVER ANY PAY-OUTS, BONUSES AND WINNINGS IF:

(i) You are in breach of any term of this Agreement;

(ii) The Company should become aware that you have played at any other online gaming site or services and are suspected of fraud, collusion or unlawful or improper activity;

(iii) You have "charged back" or denied any of the purchases or deposits that you made to your Account;

(iv) If you become bankrupt or analogous proceedings occur anywhere in the world.

21.2 If after a Security Review (see section 20 above) has been performed you have either:

(i) Been found not to have been in compliance with this Agreement; or

(ii) Not provided responses satisfactory to Company in its sole discretion within any reasonable timeframe specified in a security review request or (where none has been specified 30 days from the sending or making of the request); then ANY WITHHELD ACCOUNT BALANCES WILL BE DEEMED FORFEITED AND YOUR ACCOUNT CLOSED.”



In this case we should also remind Mr Field that his behaviour is both against our terms and conditions and against generally accepted casino and poker rules (which are incorporated by reference in clause 6) and which are there to protect both him and our other players. His actions leave us with no other options given our zero tolerance policy to cheating and unfair practices.



Regards



Legal Affairs



What I did was wrong. I shouldn't have been doing it in the first place. It made me lie and cheat to people and a community I know and trust. I feel terrible about it, but there isn't much I can do about it now.

Adam and Cal have handled this very well, and I thank them a ton.

***I am not sure where I move on from here. I am contimplating legal action, but I won't go too much further into that.
((I am saying this more about the 40k than the 140k. They deserve to take away the 140k from me, and I compliment them that they were able to make such a bold move. However, I doubt anything will come with it. I typed this swiftly, and was somewhat still hoping I would be able to get some of the money back, which i do not deserve.)

Thanks for all the supports through this whole ordeal. I really do appeciate it.
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JungleCat03
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« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2006, 05:32:18 PM »

It's good that they took harsh measures against him. It's needed as a deterrent.

But unless they update their fraud detection systems, then it will just continue, the cheaters will just use a higher degree of discretion.

Two side-issues from this.

- He is apparently a 16 /17 yr old. This hasn't stopped a deluge of death threats from members of the poker community. He cheated and deserves punishment, but this is going way too far and shows the skewed perspective of some people.

- I hope that party intend to recompense the other players in the tournament with the 140k. To keep it would be ludicrous, seeing as the people who lsot out from his actions were the other players in the tournament, not party.
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« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2006, 05:34:47 PM »

His biggest problem was Ego. If he kept quiet during the tourney noone would be any the wiser and he'd be home free with $140k.
Still it's obviously wrong and they have done the right thing by taking back the dough.
I bet Josh feels like a proper 'numpty'.

anyone else use two accounts? gonna admit to it on here?  Wink
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AndrewT
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« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2006, 05:40:45 PM »

There are so many teenage players who, once they win a few quid, get greedy and let their egos go to their heads.

I'm glad this guy lost his prize money plus the other money he had in his account. I hope Party also send him to bed with no dinner.
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« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2006, 05:42:36 PM »

everyone wants to be a "name" - get over it.
take the money and run.
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Nem
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« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2006, 05:45:39 PM »

Party confiscated the 140k form the account "ABlackCar" and then Party confiscated 40k from then "JJProdigy" account.

Do you agree that they should confiscated all the funds from the JJProdigy account, even though this account wasn't involved?
« Last Edit: February 19, 2006, 05:48:47 PM by Nemesis » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2006, 05:47:58 PM »

Party confiscated the 140k form the account "ABLACKCAR" and the Party confiscated 40k from the "JJProdigy" account.

Do you agree that they should confiscated all the funds from the JJProdigy account, even though this account wasn't involved?

Yes of course, it is involved, its his real acct, it was the 'other' account, if there is only 1 account how is it multi-accounting. He was even stupid enough to transfer money between the 2!
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« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2006, 05:49:37 PM »

He was even stupid enough to transfer money between the 2!

Now that is stupid.
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Ginger
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« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2006, 05:52:30 PM »

Party have taken back the 140k, and given it to the remaining players, and the 401st (bubble) has now scraped into the money. They seem to be looking at the period of time since he opened the 2nd account, can't say fairer than that.

Well done PP!
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« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2006, 05:53:55 PM »

No-one battered an eyelid when Noah Boaeken did this 6 months ago on Pokerstars.

He entered the 750k under at least 2 known accounts. He got knocked out under 'Exclusive' and then he ended up winning the tournament under the account 'IlCapitano' which supposebly belongs to his friend Marcel Luske.
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« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2006, 06:13:38 PM »

If Party have the info to check that he had done this in the past how come they only act now?

They have been happy to take double rake for the previous events. Maybe they should earn their rake and protect other players by checking on this for every tournament.
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« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2006, 07:03:43 PM »

No-one battered an eyelid when Noah Boaeken did this 6 months ago on Pokerstars.

He entered the 750k under at least 2 known accounts. He got knocked out under 'Exclusive' and then he ended up winning the tournament under the account 'IlCapitano' which supposebly belongs to his friend Marcel Luske.

The diffrence there was that both marcel and noah were playing, when noah got knocked out he took over for marcel. It was not Noah playign 2 accts.

However there was a big fuss when that kicked off.
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« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2006, 08:16:57 PM »

who believes that he opened it for grandma?
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« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2006, 08:18:31 PM »

Hard to believe someone can be a poker fanatic without knowing how to play....
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Robert HM
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« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2006, 08:30:45 PM »

who believes that he opened it for grandma?


Not for one minute
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