Do you think

[Royal Flush]

I cant see anything that makes you a natural poker player, there is no physical skill involved.

The more intellegent you are the easier it will become, that is the only thing that holds people back.

All other things, like temprament, reading skills etc can all be taught.

[tikay]

I cant see anything that makes you a natural poker player, there is no physical skill involved.

The more intellegent you are the easier it will become, that is the only thing that holds people back.

All other things, like temprament, reading skills etc can all be taught.

...but I know many great poker players who are not very bright, & many bad ones who are.

I'm not convinced intelligence is the biggest key ingredient.

I think "instinct" is important, & I think you are either born with that or you are not.

[londonpokergirl]

I also think you have to have great instinct, and the balls to make moves
I'm not a great percentage person, but I know how many outs I have at any point and if
i'm getting pot odds to call into it

and my claim to fame is I made Gus Hansens heart rate beat faster when I made a move on him  
Nobody else on my table did that    

[Karabiner]

I also think you have to have great instinct, and the balls to make moves
I'm not a great percentage person, but I know how many outs I have at any point and if
i'm getting pot odds to call into it

and my claim to fame is I made Gus Hansens heart rate beat faster when I made a move on him  
Nobody else on my table did that    

You probably just leaned a long way forward across the table Mel 

[AndrewT]

Blimey, I pop out of the office for a meeting and this great thread springs up (well, great apart from all the talk about the Kendall posterior...). So many great posts - who to quote first?

In my opinion anyone can be a world class poker player. All it takes is self belief, dedication, lots of study and a basic understanding of people

True, up to a point. There are personality traits which are advantageous to have at the poker table - mathematical dexterity, the ability to be able to think clearly whilst under pressure (ie avoiding 'rabbit in the headlights' moments), people reading skills, adaptability to changing situations, to name a few. Some people are naturally good at these, others aren't. The ones who aren't can, through hard work and dedication, raise their skill at these things up to the required level.

To use the example of me, I've always had a sharp mind concerning numbers, and have been good at avoiding panic in pressure situations. However, my people reading skills are practically non-existant at the poker table - I have a long, long (long) way to go to get good at this - it requires far more effort than the maths as I'm starting from a lower base to start with.

We all have natural strengths and weaknesses. Playing to your strengths is fun, and can be easy. Eliminating your weaknesses is rarely fun, and is always hard work. True champions put the effort in to overcome their weaknesses - this is the difference between them and others.

The one certainty among all this is that nothing beats experience. 

At the end of the day its a simple fact that the more hands I play, in as many formats as possible, the more exposure I get to make the decisions that count.  Provided I can extricate myself from the emotions (not easy) and focus on the decisions I made (regardless of the results), learn from the ones I got wrong and re-inforce the ones I got right then I should become a more formidable opponent than before.  However, experience only counts if you are willing to go through this process - if you spend your life putting everything down to bad cards, bad luck, crap opponents and the like then you'll end up making the same mistakes over and over again until they're so entrenched that they become impossible to undo.

How do the great players make the right decisions? It's because they'll have been in similar situations in the past and the best course of action has been ingrained into their psyche and they are able to act upon it 'without thinking'. It may seem like gut feeling or instinct, but it is actually their years of prior experience being brought to bear on the current situation.

Sheriff had it right - nothing beats experience, which can only be accumulated over time, by putting in the hours at the tables, and also afterwards, examining where you went wrong and how you can make a better decision next time. You only ever really learn how a household appliance works when it goes wrong and you take it apart to fix it. It's the same with a poker decision - it often has to go wrong before you can truly understand how and why it goes right.

[matt674]

You only ever really learn how a household appliance works when it goes wrong and you take it apart to fix it. It's the same with a poker decision - it often has to go wrong before you can truly understand how and why it goes right.

Bugger - i'd better quit poker now then!! i'm forever finishing with more bits than i started with!!

[Sark79]

I have just realised who you are Londonpokergirl.  Were you on the pokerchannel?.  I think, but I may be wrong, Roy Brindley was at the table as well. Forgive me if I am wrong, I don't get out much and may have just imagined it.

I really believe the biggest advantage is the desire to come first. I have two fine dogs, Roland and Elvis. Roland is two and Elvis is nine. They are both about the same size as a Lab.

Elvis is the most competative person I have ever met. If he is swimming at the beach and another dog is beating him through the water to the stick, he whimpers and tries as hard as he possibly can to get to the stick first. He was a stray and we found him when he was about 2 months old near the Kilmarnock football ground. My other dog is alot younger and faster but when they both play football( with a tennis ball) together on the beach, Elvis always wins. Roland can actually run alot faster than Elvis. He is also a better footballer than Elvis, although I never actually tell Elvis this. But Elvis has a burning desire to win and as a result, more often or not does win. It is unfortunate Killie can't get a player like him for their team  

My point is this, all top sports people and poker players have to have a massive desire to win. I really don't think that natural talent comes into it. Look at both Damon and Graham Hill. They are recognised as not being natural drivers but they were both World Champions. Did you know both of them didn't start their careers on four wheels untill they were 24/25 years old. To put this into context, Schumacher won his first F1 title at 25 and Alonso is the current World Champ at 23. Natural talent does not play as big a part as most people think. It is desire to win that counts, any setback can be overcome. Many people said age was against Hill when he first started against much younger more experienced drivers and Elvis my dog beats my other dog on the football field through sheer will to do so.  Desire is the strongest character trait a person can have.

[londonpokergirl]

aye that was me sark ,  devilfish, roy the boy, gus , me , regholdsworth(martin green) and matt


karabiner   naughty boy.  although funny enough devilfishs first comment was nice ***s which got edited lol

[matt674]

and matt

Not me!!

I would have remembered playing with someone as good looking as you mel!! 

[The_nun]

My husband Mr Nun..tells me I am a natural at it,    and that I was  born to always hold  a deck in my hand......well at least that's what I thought he said...

[Colchester Kev]

My husband Mr Nun..tells me I am a natural at it,    and that I was  born to always hold  a deck in my hand......well at least that's what I thought he said...

LOL LOL LOL LOL  POST OF THE DAY !!!

[Royal Flush]

I cant see anything that makes you a natural poker player, there is no physical skill involved.

The more intellegent you are the easier it will become, that is the only thing that holds people back.

All other things, like temprament, reading skills etc can all be taught.

...but I know many great poker players who are not very bright, & many bad ones who are.

I'm not convinced intelligence is the biggest key ingredient.

I think "instinct" is important, & I think you are either born with that or you are not.

An intellegent person playing for the first time is still a fish. I mean that intellegence makes it easier to learn.

As for "not very bright" there are many diffrent types of intellegence, knowledge is not one, the 2 are often confused.

[Gamblor21]

I cant see anything that makes you a natural poker player, there is no physical skill involved.

The more intellegent you are the easier it will become, that is the only thing that holds people back.

All other things, like temprament, reading skills etc can all be taught.

I have to say you can learn up to a certain level, but to be world class you have to have "it"! Watch Ram's heat of the willhill gp, it was an excellent example of someone who is naturally talented at the game... You could not teach that!

All world class players have aspects of there games which are a cut above the rest. I don't think it is one particular skillset maybe a combination of many, but there definately is something that differs the good from the great! Someone let me know exactly what it is though!

[gatso]

There's a great take on this on the John Gale interview Neeko posted a link to earlier http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=7584.0

He's saying that after his wpt win he went away and studied the game reading harrington, tj etc. When he went back to playing following their advice he was awful so he went back to his natural game and became a winning player again.
He really comes across as someone who believes 100% in his natural ability

[b4matt]

One of the best threads i've read. I'm really sitting on the fence on this one, and i'm with kev with regards to post of the day.