Blondepoker rakeback??

[tikay]

I wonder what % of "true" blondites (say the top 250 of hard core posters/readers, do play online), I think it is the majority, and I'm sure with the new BP poker room this % will increase. I have been reading the other forums this week and think that BP is superior in terms of content, community spirit and volume of posts.

If us "hard core" members could chip in a little bit towards the costs we would feel even more involved for a small price or a small bit of our rake which were giving to the faceless "cyber businesses" who don't give a XXXX about us anyway. I know you're dead set against "blondites" paying anything for the use of BP, and would rather 3rd parties subsidised it, but us poker players gotta start supporting the good guys in poker and keeping the money circulating in the community, and what better place to start that BP, which has brought so many of us together.

Anyway, I'm just downloading joining the BP online room to see if I can find you or DC playing on there, I'm sure any rake I can generate will be offset against winnings. My username will be theyongsta in case you ever fancy a heads up game.

See you guys in Luton. Rob

Rob, if you are gonna play from time to time on blonde Cardroom, that'll do for me, the rake you will generate helps to pay for the site, which is what it's all about.

And I have no doubt that Dave & I will play on the DTD site when it opens.

I have had a dozen or more PM's & e-mails asking why it is I continue to mention, on the Forum & elsewhere, that I still play on Wm Hill, Blue Square, Laddies, Sporting Odds, ditto ditto ditto.

These well-intentioned questions miss the point entirely. We are never going to be a one-stop-shop, "blonde cardroom or nothing" place, we will always want to disseminate info on ANY or ALL Cardrooms, because that's the nature of blonde. (Spam, of course, we won't tolerate). We want poker players to visit blonde to keep up-to-date with the wider poker community, & if they can continue to do that here, well, the odd one or two may well feel able to join our Cardroom.

[tikay]

rob even though the hard core of us poster would be willing to pay to access the site what makes blonde great imho is that everyone is welcome no matter how much they play how big there roll is and how little they post

i respect the views of a first time poster or a voyeur who never post as much as i do red dog or kev who dont seem to ever stop posting

a charge or a minium amount of play might put these people of and that would detract from blonde

hopefully the quailty of blondepoker will attract players and the fact people can sit at a blonde table without getting called a ******* ****** ******* after they get lucky will attract players

personally i think anyone who gets chat bans on the blondepoker site should get forum bans

and that should be enough to attract the right people to both the site and the forum

and the AP and the chance to sit at a table with some of the top pros for 5$ will enable the site to pay for the upkeep

Well said Iron.

"Small players" are what we desire. "Keeping the blonde community spirit, & transferring it tio the Cardroom" is critical.

Play el blondie, or The Rookie, for $5 or $50 or $500. Play jen or sloppy or ifm for $5 or $10 - jeez, these $5 SNG's have been more fun than anything I can recall. Where else can pokerists get that? It's as much about fun as money. Chili whopped El Blondie tonight at $10 Heads-Up - that means a POT to Chili, or her ilk.

We don't need to do expensive Marketing campaigns, or give shed-loads of "incentives" away - we have more than enough going for us if we remember how we got where we are.

If folks will only join if we give them financial "incentive", welll, frankly, they are not our target market.

[tikay]

"If us "hard core" members could chip in a little bit towards the costs we would feel even more involved for a small price or a small bit of our rake which were giving to the faceless "cyber businesses" who don't give a XXXX about us anyway. I know you're dead set against "blondites" paying anything for the use of BP, and would rather 3rd parties subsidised it, but us poker players gotta start supporting the good guys in poker and keeping the money circulating in the community, and what better place to start that BP, which has brought so many of us together"

This is exactly my sentiment, and whyI am vehemously against blonde paying r/b. Its not like the money is going to disappear into the engine tank of the MD's ferrari, its going to go back to us anyways, in the form of improved site/features etc.

People always say how much they like the forum, this is a great chance to show it

One other thing I thought of, the problem with offering bonus', is that it wont strengthen the community, it will just attact the people looking for a free piece of a pie (even though it is self financing) How would people feel if there were blonde tournies with money added where half the field were people that contributed nothing to the forum, and were just there for the free dollar? It would compromise the community feel, and if someone was sat at a table with 8 unchatting unknowns in a blonde-only tournament, I am pretty sure they would have plenty to say about the matter.

I probably generate in the region of $15,000 a month in rake, and whilst I like the forum, I dont like it enough to cost myself $4200, but I certainly like it enough to contribute a % of that... how much I wil play is a matter of personal preference, but I certainly am of the opinion that people should be happy that they get the opportunity to help blonde grow, rather then cry because their EV is impacted by a tiny %

And totalise, as ever, is right on the mark, especially his paras 4 & 5.

[tikay]

Thank you for that Rob.

We are just not keen to go down the "who can give the biggest rakeback" slippery slope, for some of the reasons I Posted earlier.

As to your other suggestion, we are dead set against EVER charging for access to blonde Forum, or the Updates. Your theory is an interesting one, but many blondeites do not even play online, so we would be discriminating against them.

As to (non-blonde) Affiliates & Banners, this is a matter we are currently reviewing. It may well be that we decide to "bet the shop" on blonde, but that's a decision yet to be made.

Other ways of financing the Live Updates are in train, more of which in due course. But it will NOT involve blondeites paying for them.

Im sure there are a lot of revenue opportunities out there for the live updates, which the general public would be happy to pay for. Eg text messaging of major news from big tournaments to mobile phones at 25p per go could be a decent earner.

Thanks Laz. Some of these "add-ons" to our Live Updates are currently being evaluated, watch this space!

[12barblues]

Blonde is a brand; a small niche brand at the moment, but a brand none the less.  In my experience it is unique in its 'feel' and community spirit. 

The moment you charge for access to the forum you  become exclusive rather than inclusive in spirit and the brand would be dead in a month.  90% +  of members have less than 100 posts.  How many would pay a subscription rather than revert to lurk mode?  Preventing lurkers would be even worse - no-one would ever join.

Any battle fought on financial muscle  would be hopeless, including rake wars. Better to stand aside and be different, even if any individual initiative (such as the card room) has to be tested and then abandoned if it doesn't make a contribution.

Blonde needs to generate income from leveraging its user base through paid advertising, merchandising, the new poker site, joint initiatives with compatible partners such as Cincins/DuskTillDawn, etc. whilst continuing the growth in members by playing to its strengths:

1. English language, so it is accessible to the largest possible audience (particularly for the live updates which probably generate a significant number of first time visitors);

2. Brilliant live updates that combine the factual stuff with some wonderful 'colour' background,  banter and  inter-reaction with the online railbirds;

3. Contributions from the full range of players from  purely social players to the top level pros and from novices to  and all points in between;

4. Strongly moderated so that no-one needs to don their flameproof overalls before giving their view - and I'm not on my high horse here as I have had my knuckles rapped  (and still have the tyre tracks across my back)!

5. A number of key contributers who are top notch in their field, whether it is poker expertise, wonderful writing (not necessarily poker-related), humour, mickey-taking, railbirding or pie-eating.

Making a commercial success of Blonde won't be easy in a crowded marketplace, but the foundations are there in my view.
 
I'd better stop now as I've used up my 2006 quota of 'nice' and I'll make myself throw up if I go on any longer.  Back to being a grumpy old curmudgeon from now on. 

[tikay]

Thank you for that Rob.

We are just not keen to go down the "who can give the biggest rakeback" slippery slope, for some of the reasons I Posted earlier.

As to your other suggestion, we are dead set against EVER charging for access to blonde Forum, or the Updates. Your theory is an interesting one, but many blondeites do not even play online, so we would be discriminating against them.

As to (non-blonde) Affiliates & Banners, this is a matter we are currently reviewing. It may well be that we decide to "bet the shop" on blonde, but that's a decision yet to be made.

Other ways of financing the Live Updates are in train, more of which in due course. But it will NOT involve blondeites paying for them.

Tony,

As Andrew said the rakeback wars are in full flow at the moment and althought available on many sites it is in my opinion amazing how badly thought out these promos are from the business point of view.

 I know of one site ( it isnt Hills before anyone jumps to the wrong conclusion) that is giving 40% of a players full rake back which is ludicrous. I know many players will be on good rakeback schemes but for every pound this site makes from these players they are giving 32% away as a revenue share to the provider and 40% back to the player. When you add in the marketing of these promos and the handlng of these schemes by staff they are making around 20p in every pound that these players provide.

It may well be great for recruitment but it is too big a price to pay imvho.

Bobby knows this business inside out, & I am much heartened that he sees it the same way that we do.

Turnover means naff all to me, big does not necessarily mean beautiful.

Turnover is Vanity, financial prudence is sanity.

[ifm]

Tikay, just to clarify where i'm coming from.
I assumed the cardroom was meant to be a way to support the main site/forum/live updates etc. and therefore attracting as many players to the skin as possible is the aim.
You yourself questioned Rob because he may not have been maximising his business strategy, it turns out he is prepared to do it his way or no way which is commendable.
I want this place to succeed more than many folks on here and i will add my tupppence worth to that end.
So if you want help handing out flyers or anything else i will
(though when i was a kid i used to deliver free papers......straight into a bush lol).

[WellChief]

I have just had a look at the action points incentive and to be honest it's possibly even better than rakeback.  Than the rakeback i get on tribeca at the moment anyway.

I play a fair bit of cash and earnt 260 K action points last month, which equates to about $800 in rakeback.  On the blonde site, my action points would get quadrupled giving me over a million per month, just short of a 20 inch LCD TV which retail pretty close to $800.  Within three months i'd be able to get a brand new laptop.

So don't dismiss the bonus scheme completely, looking into it its a good scheme and much, much better than anything offered by Victor Chandler for example who don't offer any sort of rakeback or action point duplication.

[RED-DOG]

Turnover is Vanity, financial prudence is sanity, London is urbanity.


Well you try thinking of something that rhymes with sanity

[tikay]

istead of rakeback i think sites would be better off lowering there rake

but a rake war betweent he major networks would lead to the premature end for some smaller networks which in the longer run would be a bad thing for the players

It is coming Iron. The exes that some of these sites are running to would amaze you.

Bobby, it's patently obvious to anyone with half a brain cell. Many sites are spending more than they can afford, they are glory-huinters who just want their name in lights. Read the poker mags & count the Ads, then work out what the cost must be.

Meanwhile, the ingenuity, not to say complexity, of some of the schemes some sites come up with to attract players, would be laughed at in any half  decently run business.

The best sites don't bother with these - they go for quality of product, and first class Customer Support. It will take us a while to get there, but that's the goal.

And I repeat my earlier Doomsday warning - some small sites WILL fail in the near future, taking punters cash with them. Listen to the howls of anguish then!

A while back, when interest rates were, say, 5%, a certain Mr Clowes was offering "investors" 10%. Many was the gullible fool who rushed in at this "too good to miss" offer. They lost their cash - quite obviously - & he done a few years inside. Poker Sites are no different, it's a simple equation of income versus expenditure.

We will keep our outgoings low, even if it means missed opportunity. It's safer that way!

[tikay]

Blonde is a brand; a small niche brand at the moment, but a brand none the less.  In my experience it is unique in its 'feel' and community spirit. 

The moment you charge for access to the forum you  become exclusive rather than inclusive in spirit and the brand would be dead in a month.  90% +  of members have less than 100 posts.  How many would pay a subscription rather than revert to lurk mode?  Preventing lurkers would be even worse - no-one would ever join.

Any battle fought on financial muscle  would be hopeless, including rake wars. Better to stand aside and be different, even if any individual initiative (such as the card room) has to be tested and then abandoned if it doesn't make a contribution.

Blonde needs to generate income from leveraging its user base through paid advertising, merchandising, the new poker site, joint initiatives with compatible partners such as Cincins/DuskTillDawn, etc. whilst continuing the growth in members by playing to its strengths:

1. English language, so it is accessible to the largest possible audience (particularly for the live updates which probably generate a significant number of first time visitors);

2. Brilliant live updates that combine the factual stuff with some wonderful 'colour' background,  banter and  inter-reaction with the online railbirds;

3. Contributions from the full range of players from  purely social players to the top level pros and from novices to  and all points in between;

4. Strongly moderated so that no-one needs to don their flameproof overalls before giving their view - and I'm not on my high horse here as I have had my knuckles rapped  (and still have the tyre tracks across my back)!

5. A number of key contributers who are top notch in their field, whether it is poker expertise, wonderful writing (not necessarily poker-related), humour, mickey-taking, railbirding or pie-eating.

Making a commercial success of Blonde won't be easy in a crowded marketplace, but the foundations are there in my view.
 
I'd better stop now as I've used up my 2006 quota of 'nice' and I'll make myself throw up if I go on any longer.  Back to being a grumpy old curmudgeon from now on. 

Hehe, our special buddy 12BarBlues has got the temperature right too. At least, I think he has. How are you big man?

[12barblues]

I'm fine!  It's just my bankroll that is sick 

I've just re-read that guff I spent ages writing.  A better version would be:

''Blonde is different.  Play to your strengths - stay different.''

There, 30 seconds instead of an hour!

[NoflopsHomer]

Turnover is Vanity, financial prudence is sanity, London is urbanity.


Well you try thinking of something that rhymes with sanity

Profanity?

[tikay]

Tikay, just to clarify where i'm coming from.
I assumed the cardroom was meant to be a way to support the main site/forum/live updates etc. and therefore attracting as many players to the skin as possible is the aim.
You yourself questioned Rob because he may not have been maximising his business strategy, it turns out he is prepared to do it his way or no way which is commendable.
I want this place to succeed more than many folks on here and i will add my tupppence worth to that end.
So if you want help handing out flyers or anything else i will
(though when i was a kid i used to deliver free papers......straight into a bush lol).

ifm - I know where you are coming from, be sure of that. You have a special place on blonde, and your feedback is as welcome as any, more than many. Indeed your Post has, in effect, been the catalyst for some tremendous debate in this thread.

You are RIGHT. It is, first & foremost, a means of paying for running blonde, & all that entails. But it ain't necessarly the case that we need to attract a lot of players to do that. Plenty of low-stakes action, and a few high-rollers, is all we need, & we think we can attract them without spending a bomb on advertising or incentives. If we keep our Overheads to a minimum, the cardroom wiil generate all that we need. But it won't if we give away 75% of our anticipated income via "incentives" & the like, because then we have to attract 4 times as many players! That would make us "busy fools", turnover holds no interest to me whatsoever.

It astounds me how much money is wasted on advertising. They used to say that Mr Colman, of Colmans Mustard fame, built his (very considerable) fortune on what was left on the side of plates. Advertising is similar. 95% of Marketing spend is wasted. Trouble is, nobody even knows where the 5% is.......

[tikay]

I have just had a look at the action points incentive and to be honest it's possibly even better than rakeback.  Than the rakeback i get on tribeca at the moment anyway.

I play a fair bit of cash and earnt 260 K action points last month, which equates to about $800 in rakeback.  On the blonde site, my action points would get quadrupled giving me over a million per month, just short of a 20 inch LCD TV which retail pretty close to $800.  Within three months i'd be able to get a brand new laptop.

So don't dismiss the bonus scheme completely, looking into it its a good scheme and much, much better than anything offered by Victor Chandler for example who don't offer any sort of rakeback or action point duplication.

To be honst WelChief, I have not got my head round the "action points" scheme, but you have convinced me!