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Author Topic: A terrible tournament rule  (Read 13679 times)
tikay
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« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2006, 10:24:00 PM »


Collusion is RIFE in Casino Poker.  Fact.

Casinos are just in it for the money? Well, err, yes, they are! What other reason could they have?!

It would have been far better if you had inputted the Article direct on blonde, rather than the rather unsubtle spam of your site, but you've already conceded that, so that's history, but as you can see, the blondeites spot these ruses a mile off.

Enjoy blonde my friend, it's a warm-hearted community, but it's best to say it as it is.

Baron - that poll. 14 have ADSMITTED colluding - far more actully collude in my opinion.
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« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2006, 10:31:38 PM »


Collusion is RIFE in Casino Poker.  Fact.

Casinos are just in it for the money? Well, err, yes, they are! What other reason could they have?!

It would have been far better if you had inputted the Article direct on blonde, rather than the rather unsubtle spam of your site, but you've already conceded that, so that's history, but as you can see, the blondeites spot these ruses a mile off.

Enjoy blonde my friend, it's a warm-hearted community, but it's best to say it as it is.

Baron - that poll. 14 have ADSMITTED colluding - far more actully collude in my opinion.

I believe the poll was just for online Tikay.

Had it been for live play and folk were honest I reckon it would be staggeringly high.
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The Baron
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« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2006, 10:46:03 PM »


Collusion is RIFE in Casino Poker.  Fact.

Casinos are just in it for the money? Well, err, yes, they are! What other reason could they have?!

It would have been far better if you had inputted the Article direct on blonde, rather than the rather unsubtle spam of your site, but you've already conceded that, so that's history, but as you can see, the blondeites spot these ruses a mile off.

Enjoy blonde my friend, it's a warm-hearted community, but it's best to say it as it is.

Baron - that poll. 14 have ADSMITTED colluding - far more actully collude in my opinion.

Yes agreed tikay.

However these figures still make for a great demonstration:

For example every 9 player STT you sit at will have one colluder on average. Obviously you cant collude alone, so for every two you play you will meet a pair of colluders. That's not a small amount whatsoever.

Think how many colluders Tank must have met by now? Assuming they are all 9 player STTs, he's met 4669 colluders once he's done his 4000 STTs. Pretty worrying really.

And as tikay says, they're just the ones that have ADMITTED it.
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Alex Scott
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« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2006, 11:26:35 PM »

Okay, I can see how people have got offended. After all, if you make generalisations about any group of people, someone in that group is bound to be upset even if the comment doesn't apply to them personally. Thats why racial and gender stereotypes are so offensive in general. So I admit I could have handled the situation more delicately.

However, I'm a passionate and opinionated person, and once I've made my mind up it takes some argument for me to change it. I've played in a lot of cardrooms and casinos over the past seven years, and I've had plenty of good experiences and plenty of bad ones. I've encountered cheating in the form of people marking cards and actually manipulating the deck. I've encountered collusion. But more than anything, I've encountered shoddy management. I've played in some great tournaments (like the British Poker Open, the UK Student Poker Championship, and the main event in Sheffield), some okay ones (like the regular tournies at the Gutshot) and some awful ones (like the tournaments in the casinos in Edinburgh). My point is that a large number of the small, regular tournaments in casinos are mainly there to get the punters in, and are an insult to the players. Casino management could do something about this, but they don't.

My quarrel is not with cardroom staff who try their best to please the players, and who work hard to put on well structured honest games. Its with the people who cut corners to save money, train dealers poorly (or don't provide them at all), and who put people in charge who have no knowledge of the game. Players in the UK deserve better, and we shouldn't stand for anything less than the best.

Regarding collusion, I do think that people in general are more paranoid about collusion than is warranted. I've rarely encountered it in live play, and I've recently started working for PokerStars - a site with over 5 million registered players - so I have access to lots of information about collusion. Part of my job is to investigate collusion cases, and they are blissfully rare. I don't think my statistic is far off the mark, at least for players on PokerStars. I also think that the poll The Baron is referring to, while admittedly being worryingly high, probably doesn't represent the general poker population very well. In other words, the people that reply to polls on a forum like this are probably more likely to have colluded than the average poker player, because they have more knowledge and experience be that good or bad.

Lastly, I want to state for the last time that I did not post this article simply to promote my website. Anyone who knows me will tell you that I love poker, I love discussing it, and I love writing about it. My website is just another medium for me to communicate my ideas and opinions on the game - its not a commercial venture. Notice that the link I posted goes straight to the article, its not some money making scheme.

Maybe I should've stuck to the Hand Analysis section... Still, I'm sure there will be many more controversial opinions for me to be slagged off for in the future.
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« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2006, 11:31:09 PM »

Just curious Alex,

Have you ever taken a saver with another player, owning a % of each other in a tournament?
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« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2006, 11:37:58 PM »

Just curious Alex,

Have you ever taken a saver with another player, owning a % of each other in a tournament?

Yes - and I know where you're going with that. Needless to say I have never played differently against someone because I was involved in a swap with them. The only time my play has changed in a situation like this is in team events, where it's often a really bad strategic decision to knock out your team mate.
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The Baron
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« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2006, 11:41:28 PM »

Regarding collusion, I do think that people in general are more paranoid about collusion than is warranted. I've rarely encountered it in live play, and I've recently started working for PokerStars - a site with over 5 million registered players - so I have access to lots of information about collusion. Part of my job is to investigate collusion cases, and they are blissfully rare. I don't think my statistic is far off the mark, at least for players on PokerStars. I also think that the poll The Baron is referring to, while admittedly being worryingly high, probably doesn't represent the general poker population very well. In other words, the people that reply to polls on a forum like this are probably more likely to have colluded than the average poker player, because they have more knowledge and experience be that good or bad.

I too now work for a cardroom. It's called blondepokerleague in case anyone didn't know. Smiley Not quite as big as the one you work for Alex but it's a quality cardroom all the same.

My point about collusion is entriely based on assumption. However IMO it's just scratching the surface. Blonde has a wide range of players, from WSOP bracelet winners and European Champions, to $1 STT kings and bonus whores.

People on here may not be a totally perfect representation of society as a whole but I'd bet a fair amount that if they haven't been involved in collusion or cheating, they've either been victims of it or seen it first hand. Isn't softplaying collusion? You're trying to tell me that doesn't go on much at the business end of a tourney when mates are involved? If we're being honest I think most of us know collusion is far GREATER than the poll shows - not less.

Some people wont admit it, some don't know they're doing it and some have just done it occasionally but it's all cheating to the most of us. Also don't mistake not catching colluders on your site with there not being many. IMO the difference between the numbers you have caught and the numbers that do it will be huge.
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« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2006, 11:41:49 PM »

.
Quote
Part of my job is to investigate collusion cases, and they are blissfully rare.

I think you will find collusion monitors that post on here and other forums, some of which are friends of mine. If you think that collusion is blissfully rare, i put it to you that you are either in the wrong job, or not seeing things that you should be. In fact you have made me slightly worried now about the security of Stars?

Still, you have proved by this thread, although for most part defendiing yourself, that you are passionate about poker. Welcome to blonde, where nearly 3000 peeps also are.
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tikay
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« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2006, 11:47:51 PM »


We don't & won't "slag you off" Alex, we won't allow it, but to be fair, you were fairly rude & scathing about Cardroom Staff, & we have more of these on blonde than there are on any Forum, anywhere in Europe. These guys get it in te nexck week after week, so we needed to allow them right of reply. One of the rsponses in particular made me cringe, he got a bit excited, but it's not hard to see why. But we are beyond that now.

"Smaller tournaments in Casinos are simply there to get the punters in". Well yes, of course they are! But it's a marriage of convenience - thery want the Roulette Mugs, we want somwhere to play Tourney Poker. BOTH sides need to see the other side's view.

As for collusion, I have no real view of the online situation.

But in Live Poker Tournaments, it is RIFE, & if you do not  know that by now, you are not facing reality. Take that blindfold off, you are not watching properly - fact! You have me seriously concerned about the Site you work on if you really & truly believe what you say about collusion. But I suspect that was just a "attention getting" statement, albeit a badly chosen one. I'm afraid it's beyond argument - there is collusion a-plenty!

I know one Casino where I estimate betwen 40 & 50% of the players collude. And I have seen it in almost every British Casino I have played in, although not to that extent.
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« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2006, 11:48:29 PM »


Regarding collusion, I do think that people in general are more paranoid about collusion than is warranted. I've rarely encountered it in live play, and I've recently started working for PokerStars - a site with over 5 million registered players - so I have access to lots of information about collusion. Part of my job is to investigate collusion cases, and they are blissfully rare.

hmmmm  I know 7 people who are all good friends who work for pokerstars and your story doesn't match up to theirs!!  They are always checking hand historys for colluding people and checking transfers of monies and generally watching for collusion through players emailing them telling them about chat history and the likes

In no way is this a slur of pokerstars, quite the opposite, its good to see that online sites have a fantastic dept set up to watch out for it
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« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2006, 11:50:49 PM »


Yes - and I know where you're going with that. Needless to say I have never played differently against someone because I was involved in a swap with them. The only time my play has changed in a situation like this is in team events, where it's often a really bad strategic decision to knock out your team mate.


I wasn't trying to suggest you would Alex. That was not my intended direction. (You're having a hard enough time as it is  Cheesy )

My point is just that a lot of it goes on, you know tournaments are full of players swapping pieces of each other. The showdown rule is as decent a deterrent that I know of until I hear about a suitable alternative.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2006, 12:43:49 AM by thetank » Logged

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« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2006, 11:52:00 PM »

Also bear in mind that if online colluders do it well it's almost impossible to catch them.
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thetank
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« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2006, 12:00:09 AM »

I happen to believe thats not true.

Collusion makes for poor games, which makes for less traffic. Colluders affect a room's bottom line and thats why I have every confidence that they're working strongly against it.


As the industry matures, collusion detection will become much more sophisticated and effective.

The organised gangs might still get away with it as they come up with new methods to avoid getting rumbled. The occasional bunch will still get caught though, and things will become much more difficult for the casual chancers to get in on the act.

CLARIFICATION EDIT : I'm referring to Online Poker in this post.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2006, 12:47:03 AM by thetank » Logged

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« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2006, 12:09:09 AM »

Oh it gets worse!!!

be thankful i been offline for a bit due to a power cut is helped me cool down a bit.

On reading further into this, not he article (i use thisterm loosley, as theres no art i self promotional bullshit) it turns out the "piee" then goes on to critise the way UK dealers deal??? and even suggests ealers should be morewlike that in the cinncinati kid?Huh???  FFS man get a grip. I know and can appreciate dealers in this country are not always up to a super standard but having worked with a few it usually bcause of idiots like yourself who feel it is their god given right to chastise everything they do, no wonder so many drop out and are then replaced by inexperienced staff who do amke mistakes and generally have no interest in the game anyway.

I could go on and on about all this but i'm not going to, you are officially the only blondite i have come across that has offended me in any way. You shouldnt even be called a blondite as this to me relates to people whose views and opinions i respect and have all the time in the world for. In fact on THM forum, you state Blonde as another forum you contribute to even though these are you first set of posts, therefore ia djudge this just to be spam to get a few hits on your website and should be banned for doing so in such an unpleasant way. If you have anything interesting to say then feel free to join in the jovial athmosphere that is Blonde and by all means air your grief about aspects of poker comps etc but do so in a less disrespectful and less narrowminded way

WELCOME TO BLONDE
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« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2006, 12:16:03 AM »

I think you have got Mr Wolf on tilt. Cool
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