Do I have to show? Can I muck? Do we both show? Should the dealer turn them over? ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What the hell is the ruling?!?!
Last Saturday at Walsall, as I joined a new table in the £300 double chance freezout, I witnessed an intriguing situation develop. With D Sami, Trevor Reardon, and the rest of the sharks at the table, it was clear to me that if a grey area did rear it’s ugly head, it wouldn’t go unnoticed… and today was to prove no different.
With one hand reaching the river, both players checked it down. One fella, who held the winning hand, showed the goods and took down the pot. As his opponent tried to muck, it was requested that his hand be revealed.
Now, this player, who shall remain nameless (not for any negative reasoning), is a renowned, and vastly popular for that matter, face on the circuit. According to him, only two hands had been forced to reveal, and both were his. To me, this was understandable as he’s an aggressive player who likes to play a range of hands, and seeing what he’s actually making his moves with provides the rest of the table, myself included, with a useful insight into his playing strategy. However, I must also sympathise with his disdain at perhaps being unfairly singled out.
In protest of this exclusion, Mr X, as I shall refer to him from now on, declared to the table, and the dealer in particular, that, from now on, he would request any hand to be shown on the river… which, in a way, he has a right to do.
After a ruling was requested, on what would clearly slow the game down immensely, Dani plodded over to give his two cents.
Unfortunately, I think Dani’s inclusion mudded the water further, not to any fault of his own, but as a result of what has become a very very grey area indeed. Dani said that Mr X would need sufficient reason to make such a series of requests. Mr X’s response? ‘Okay, I think everyone in the cardroom is colluding.’ I couldn’t resist a chuckle under my breath, but, in all serious, it’s a fair point. Although nobody wants the game to stall, I can understand what Mr X was doing… and I think his highlighting of the complete greyness of the rules was worthwhile, and an action that was backed up by D Sami who was similarly challenging their application.
To move things along, I believe Dani asked every dealer to automatically reveal every check check showdown, whether the players want to muck or not. As pointed out by Mr X, this just wasn’t happening at a consistent level, thereby causing a level of unbalance in the game.
Although it caused a minor kafuffle at a time when most just wanted to play poker, I think that sometimes people need to take such a stance as Mr X did. If everyone just accepted what occurs in the game, then we’d never get anywhere, so, for that reason, I feel he should be applauded.
The way I see it, there are a number of problems with the way that this rule is applied throughout casinos.
(1) Each casino applies the rule differently.
(2) Sometimes, there’s a fine line between sportsmanship and set rules. I don’t think sportsmanship works in poker.
(3) The dealers never seem to know what the correct rule is.
(4) Some dealers reveal cards themselves, others don’t.
(5) Losing hands are automatically mucked online.
(6) Many players are inexperienced and unaware of the rules being applied in that particular cardroom.
(7) There is a potential for chip-passing.
(8) The reasons for revealing cards are oh so subjective. As Mr X points out, anyone can say they suspect collusion just to see cards.
(9) You get stand-offs where neither player wants to show before the other.
So, I’ve rambled on about a common grey area without actually solving anything. So, what’s the solution?
In my opinion, dealers should do the work for us. It shouldn’t come down to sportsmanship, because clearly we all have different views on what is honourable and what isn’t. With such a mixed bag of amateurs and pro’s, not to mention the painful variance of rule application around the country, I truly believe it’s up to the dealers to reveal cards that ought to be shown. If it’s check, check, then flip ‘em. If it’s bet, call, then flip the called cards. Simple, no arguing. Either way, it’s about time someone shone some light on what has become an infuriatingly and unnecessary grey area.
And don’t get tikay started on a governing body… otherwise we’re in for a very long night indeed.
Last Saturday at Walsall, as I joined a new table in the £300 double chance freezout, I witnessed an intriguing situation develop. With D Sami, Trevor Reardon, and the rest of the sharks at the table, it was clear to me that if a grey area did rear it’s ugly head, it wouldn’t go unnoticed… and today was to prove no different.
With one hand reaching the river, both players checked it down. One fella, who held the winning hand, showed the goods and took down the pot. As his opponent tried to muck, it was requested that his hand be revealed.
Now, this player, who shall remain nameless (not for any negative reasoning), is a renowned, and vastly popular for that matter, face on the circuit. According to him, only two hands had been forced to reveal, and both were his. To me, this was understandable as he’s an aggressive player who likes to play a range of hands, and seeing what he’s actually making his moves with provides the rest of the table, myself included, with a useful insight into his playing strategy. However, I must also sympathise with his disdain at perhaps being unfairly singled out.
In protest of this exclusion, Mr X, as I shall refer to him from now on, declared to the table, and the dealer in particular, that, from now on, he would request any hand to be shown on the river… which, in a way, he has a right to do.
After a ruling was requested, on what would clearly slow the game down immensely, Dani plodded over to give his two cents.
Unfortunately, I think Dani’s inclusion mudded the water further, not to any fault of his own, but as a result of what has become a very very grey area indeed. Dani said that Mr X would need sufficient reason to make such a series of requests. Mr X’s response? ‘Okay, I think everyone in the cardroom is colluding.’ I couldn’t resist a chuckle under my breath, but, in all serious, it’s a fair point. Although nobody wants the game to stall, I can understand what Mr X was doing… and I think his highlighting of the complete greyness of the rules was worthwhile, and an action that was backed up by D Sami who was similarly challenging their application.
To move things along, I believe Dani asked every dealer to automatically reveal every check check showdown, whether the players want to muck or not. As pointed out by Mr X, this just wasn’t happening at a consistent level, thereby causing a level of unbalance in the game.
Although it caused a minor kafuffle at a time when most just wanted to play poker, I think that sometimes people need to take such a stance as Mr X did. If everyone just accepted what occurs in the game, then we’d never get anywhere, so, for that reason, I feel he should be applauded.
The way I see it, there are a number of problems with the way that this rule is applied throughout casinos.
(1) Each casino applies the rule differently.
(2) Sometimes, there’s a fine line between sportsmanship and set rules. I don’t think sportsmanship works in poker.
(3) The dealers never seem to know what the correct rule is.
(4) Some dealers reveal cards themselves, others don’t.
(5) Losing hands are automatically mucked online.
(6) Many players are inexperienced and unaware of the rules being applied in that particular cardroom.
(7) There is a potential for chip-passing.
(8) The reasons for revealing cards are oh so subjective. As Mr X points out, anyone can say they suspect collusion just to see cards.
(9) You get stand-offs where neither player wants to show before the other.
So, I’ve rambled on about a common grey area without actually solving anything. So, what’s the solution?
In my opinion, dealers should do the work for us. It shouldn’t come down to sportsmanship, because clearly we all have different views on what is honourable and what isn’t. With such a mixed bag of amateurs and pro’s, not to mention the painful variance of rule application around the country, I truly believe it’s up to the dealers to reveal cards that ought to be shown. If it’s check, check, then flip ‘em. If it’s bet, call, then flip the called cards. Simple, no arguing. Either way, it’s about time someone shone some light on what has become an infuriatingly and unnecessary grey area.
And don’t get tikay started on a governing body… otherwise we’re in for a very long night indeed.
[Ed note: If you wish to comment on the above article, then please click the forum link below and share your thoughts. Remember, you need to be signed in or registered to post]
