Vagueness and the Aftermath - A sporadic diary

[RED-DOG]

Tom, if a rabbit appeared from a hedgerow 30 yards in front of them would they stay in loose control? This is where our 7yo Westie 'fails' - he'd be off like a shot and suddenly deaf.

My dogs are very keen hunters and if a rabbit appeared right in front of them they would probably chase it. This wouldn't be deliberate disobedience, they just wouldn't hear me calling them back, they would 'deaf me out'.

Now if I knew when the rabbit was going to appear I could get their attention first and then they wouldn't chase, just like if we were going to walk through a flock of sheep or chickens, I would warn them NO. Leave it", and they would be fine.

However, I never trust to training alone in situations where my dogs might get hurt or cause trouble. If I'm walking by the roadside for instance, I would never assume that the dogs wouldn't run into the road, I would always put them on a lead.

When we go for a walk there is one particular bramble patch that always has rabbits in it and when we get within say, 200yds of it I free them from loose control and they run towards it at breakneck speed. Even then, I can stop them dead half way, but if the rabbit was actually in front of them.. no chance.

[Longines]

Thanks for that, reassuring to know it's instinct and not my crap training.

For a terrier he's completely uninterested in the local rabbit holes and badger setts - I thought he'd be straight in there - but if he sees a rabbit 50 yards away he thinks he's Usain Bolt.

[RED-DOG]

I love Westies, such characters.

Did you know that they came about because some Scottish Laird once accidentally shot his favourite brown terrier when he mistook it for a fox?

He bred a strain of pure white terriers so that he would never make the same mistake again.

[Karabiner]

If all dogs are directly descended from wolves does that mean all cats are descended from lions?

[RED-DOG]

If all dogs are directly descended from wolves does that mean all cats are descended from lions?

That's a great question Ralph, domestication is a fascinating subject.

The short answer is no, domestic cats are not descended from lions, or any of the 'big' cats. They are almost identical to their direct ancestors which still exist in the wild.

For some reason, a cat's DNA fiercely resists interference from man. That's why we never see a huge variety of cats with endless variations of size and coat type like we do with dogs for instance. (imagine a Great Dane sized tabby)

Unlike dogs and other domestic animals, cats can never be considered truly domesticated. They maintain their independence and retain all their instincts and abilities. They do not rely on man, they are perfectly capable of fending for themselves and often turn feral.

[tikay]

I wanted to do a quick video about the benefits teaching your dog 'loose control' as opposed to what I would call 'tight control'.

You're all familiar with tight control. You see it at Cruft's in the obedience segment, or at any dog obedience trial event. Tight control is where the dog walks to heel as if it was glued to your leg, and often twists its head around so that it can look up into your face while it's walking.

During a tight control 'stay' the dog is put into a specific position and made to hold that exact position until released. All very pretty, but not very practical.

Loose control means that walking to heel gets translated into 'walking reasonably close'. This means that the dog must not stray more than about ten feet away from you but can still have a smell around and enjoy the walk rather than concentrating on your leg. Also, you can only keep one dog in the tight heel position, but you can keep several dogs under loose control at the same time.

The usual rigid 'Stay' becomes 'you have to stay where you are, but you can adopt any position'. Much more comfortable if the dog has to wait for quite a while or the ground is wet.

I was disappointed with the sound on this little video, but it gives you a rough idea.

Ignore the state of the dogs. They've been bog-snorkling for the last half hour.




https://youtu.be/oxg0YBtYjMA

Enjoyed that, Tom.

Is Kizzy exempt from the rules which apply to the others, does she pull rank?

I ask because I noticed at around 50 seconds, with the 3 doddlepoo's all under "loose control", the camera turns round & she is a good way behind, sort of doing her own thing. 

[RED-DOG]

I wanted to do a quick video about the benefits teaching your dog 'loose control' as opposed to what I would call 'tight control'.

You're all familiar with tight control. You see it at Cruft's in the obedience segment, or at any dog obedience trial event. Tight control is where the dog walks to heel as if it was glued to your leg, and often twists its head around so that it can look up into your face while it's walking.

During a tight control 'stay' the dog is put into a specific position and made to hold that exact position until released. All very pretty, but not very practical.

Loose control means that walking to heel gets translated into 'walking reasonably close'. This means that the dog must not stray more than about ten feet away from you but can still have a smell around and enjoy the walk rather than concentrating on your leg. Also, you can only keep one dog in the tight heel position, but you can keep several dogs under loose control at the same time.

The usual rigid 'Stay' becomes 'you have to stay where you are, but you can adopt any position'. Much more comfortable if the dog has to wait for quite a while or the ground is wet.

I was disappointed with the sound on this little video, but it gives you a rough idea.

Ignore the state of the dogs. They've been bog-snorkling for the last half hour.




https://youtu.be/oxg0YBtYjMA

Enjoyed that, Tom.

Is Kizzy exempt from the rules which apply to the others, does she pull rank?

I ask because I noticed at around 50 seconds, with the 3 doddlepoo's all under "loose control", the camera turns round & she is a good way behind, sort of doing her own thing. 

No, she's not exempt.

It's all about perspective Tony, she's smaller so she looks like she's further away.

[tikay]

Behave. I'm not buying that.

[Jon MW]

If all dogs are directly descended from wolves does that mean all cats are descended from lions?

Science Wife objects - this is not how evolution works.

Modern wolves and dogs share a common ancestor, one is not descended from the other.

Similarly cats and lions (and all other cat species) have a common ancestor, this chart shows how they aren't particularly closely related - cheetahs and cougars are closer to cats than lions.

Click to see full-size image.

This doesn't show everything but the Felidae branch is the branch encompassing all the cat species and it was in the first split that the ancestors of lions and domestic cats diverged - so quite far apart in the family tree.

[RED-DOG]

If all dogs are directly descended from wolves does that mean all cats are descended from lions?

Science Wife objects - this is not how evolution works.

Modern wolves and dogs share a common ancestor, one is not descended from the other.

Similarly cats and lions (and all other cat species) have a common ancestor, this chart shows how they aren't particularly closely related - cheetahs and cougars are closer to cats than lions.

Click to see full-size image.

This doesn't show everything but the Felidae branch is the branch encompassing all the cat species and it was in the first split that the ancestors of lions and domestic cats diverged - so quite far apart in the family tree.

Disagreeing with scientific wife. domestic cats don't come from Jaguar, lion, leopard, tiger, (Roaring cats) branch of family.

By her reckoning, every living thing is descended from whatever primeval cell first divided into two.

PS- Please don't let scientific wife tear me a new one.

[doubleup]

If all dogs are directly descended from wolves does that mean all cats are descended from lions?

Science Wife objects - this is not how evolution works.

Modern wolves and dogs share a common ancestor, one is not descended from the other.

Similarly cats and lions (and all other cat species) have a common ancestor, this chart shows how they aren't particularly closely related - cheetahs and cougars are closer to cats than lions.

Click to see full-size image.

This doesn't show everything but the Felidae branch is the branch encompassing all the cat species and it was in the first split that the ancestors of lions and domestic cats diverged - so quite far apart in the family tree.

Pleasing to see a blonde forum member at the top of this evolutionary tree.  Could you post one with The Camel in it just in case he gets huffy?

[Jon MW]

If all dogs are directly descended from wolves does that mean all cats are descended from lions?

Science Wife objects - this is not how evolution works.

Modern wolves and dogs share a common ancestor, one is not descended from the other.

Similarly cats and lions (and all other cat species) have a common ancestor, this chart shows how they aren't particularly closely related - cheetahs and cougars are closer to cats than lions.

Click to see full-size image.

This doesn't show everything but the Felidae branch is the branch encompassing all the cat species and it was in the first split that the ancestors of lions and domestic cats diverged - so quite far apart in the family tree.

Disagreeing with scientific wife. domestic cats don't come from Jaguar, lion, leopard, tiger, (Roaring cats) branch of family.
...

Not sure what you're disagreeing with. The roaring cats came from the Panthera branch and the domestic cats (and the other non-roaring ones) came from the Leopardis branch; hence why we said Felidae is the last time the two had a common ancestor.

Also

...
By her reckoning, every living thing is descended from whatever primeval cell first divided into two.
...

Well, yes - that's the whole point about evolution

[Doobs]

If all dogs are directly descended from wolves does that mean all cats are descended from lions?

Science Wife objects - this is not how evolution works.

Modern wolves and dogs share a common ancestor, one is not descended from the other.

Similarly cats and lions (and all other cat species) have a common ancestor, this chart shows how they aren't particularly closely related - cheetahs and cougars are closer to cats than lions.

Click to see full-size image.

This doesn't show everything but the Felidae branch is the branch encompassing all the cat species and it was in the first split that the ancestors of lions and domestic cats diverged - so quite far apart in the family tree.

Disagreeing with scientific wife. domestic cats don't come from Jaguar, lion, leopard, tiger, (Roaring cats) branch of family.

By her reckoning, every living thing is descended from whatever primeval cell first divided into two.

PS- Please don't let scientific wife tear me a new one.

Did Donald Trump evolve at all from the primeval cell?

[atdc21]

Evening Tom, are you going to start playing snooker again ?

[RED-DOG]

Evening Tom, are you going to start playing snooker again ?

I don't know if I could even hit the cue ball now Ade, The last game I had was in 2002 and that was a one off, the last time I played regularly was in 1995.

I just addressed an imaginary ball on the kitchen table, my shoulder hurt and I couldn't focus close enough to see the end of the cue clearly.

I think it would be an unmitigated disaster, so yes, probably.