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The lass is going to be completely ripped into little bitties tonight.

Things like police being hired, and crowds banned from the enviction won't usually make me go out of my way to tune in.

Usually I think all this kind of stuff is set up, trying to increase viewing figures. All master minded by the channel 4 producers.

It's different this time. Channel 4 seem to have genuinely f***ed up on a massive scale. Politicians all jumping on the bandwagon. Jack Straw, Gordon Brown and even El Tony himself have spoken out against the channel and the reality TV star.

Big Brother's sponsor carphone warehouse has pulled it's money.

Debenhams have hastily removed all of Jade's perfume from their shelves.

Jade's sidekick in the house, Danielle, has lost a six figure modelling contract.

Anyone with any ties to this is trying to run a mile, the tabloids are having a field day.




With 500,000 complaints to Ofcom. Nine lawsuits being filed against the channel already, and Jack Straw calling for a Kangaroo court on the issue before the end of the programme's run, Channel 4 is very much on the defensive.

They have pledged 100% of income form the phone and text voting to go to charity, all the hoo-hah will make this the busiest vote ever, so that's fair enough.

The next step will probably be to try and shift the popular focus off them, and onto Jade as much as possible. She will be made a scapegoat and hung out to dry at 10.30pm this evening.
 
I'll be tuned in to watch this car crash.

Ahhhhh, I think I get it.

They have banned the crowd, not out of any concern for Jade's health, but because they do not want Jade to get boo-ed.

That may put the PR savvy Jade on the defensive, they want her to hang herself in the interview, while a sympathetic Davina nods on.


Might not be that fun to watch then, I was looking forward to a less than subtle character assasination.  :(

it's a pile of doggy do, this whole series of BB has been a farce from the start.

I'm amazed that we (the nation) has made someone famous for doing nothing except being thick, getting her kebab out  and noshing someone off in a reailty show she didn't even win.

Davina, Russel Brand and Dermot all have the same management company who incidentally also manage Jade - wonder why the crowds been pulled!

I'll be watching, the missus has the control, I have the laptop with the poker on!

I just can't believe she has made £4 million  :D   wtf does the public like about her?   I can understand why the Indian public like Shilpa Shetty , from what I have seen on the news and read in the papers she seems like a polite and calm person.

I watched a few episodes of it (Smoopy made me do it), and actually I thought Shilpa came across really badly, like the spoilt prissy starlet that I suppose she is. Which is not to detract from the joy that Jade Goody once again publicly humiliating herself will certainly bring to millions. Just, you know, if I'd had to spend time in a house with either of them, I'd have picked a fight too, regardless of the colour of anyone's skin.

I think Shilpa maintained her dignity rather admirably throughout, from the stuff I saw when it was on in the background. ::)

lol, I wonder if anyone watches BB or they pick up on the events in the house from other means?   I learn what is happening from the news or newspapers  :D

If i actually watch this tank will it be funny? I hate the show but you have made me decide to watch it.

It seems you cant get pissed off with someone for being over controlling if they arent from the same country or religion as yourself. How can 'you have to take the bones out the toliet', get your marigolds out be racist or even bullying? The stupid mare should have had more sense that to put bones down a toilet. The popadom comment was a bit odd but no different to english people being associate with cups of tea and fish n chips. Not racist either in my opinion.

There is a lack of clarity over what being racist really is.

Still needs a good slap though. Not that I've been watching closely, obviously.  ;whistle;

She is a black belt in Karate.  I saw that mentioned in one of the newspaper reports I read.  I never watch the show

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=jade&word2=shilpa (http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=jade&word2=shilpa)

Shilpa is a snobby , snidey back stabbing bitch !! though i too haven't watched much  ;angel;
Saying that i guess being stuck with complete strangers for a few weeks would make most of us slightly demented .
Also Shilpa taking the piss out of the girls saying whale was just as bad as what they do to her , i know coz Paul always tells me off for saying  whale the same way  ;angel;

Oh, ok, then I'm not going to slap her. Thanks for the warning.

watching it now


and the full P.R. recovery machine has been activated ......but it is too late

channel 4 and its cohorts have edited the programme beautifully to isolate Jade and her racist comments to try and absolve itself...they created Jade

and now they are gonna destroy her (mu ha ha ha ha ha )


She came from the gutter and now she is returning there,except this time she can have the gutter gilded in gold with her millions earned from stupidity


this is a reflection on British dumbed down society in my opinion

years ago the best an ignorant and thick girl like Jade could hope for was a manual job knitting knickers or such like while flinging out sproggs like confetti

shame on us

shame on all of us for allowing our standards and morals to stoop so low as to give Jade celebrity status.What about the local lollipop woman who has worked for 40 years and not missed a day of work............doesnt even compare

It is amusing how all the people who are being accused of being racists are now attempting to cover themselves before being kicked out  :D .  "No Gov, I ain't a racist....not me ....honest.  It was a mistake" 

Popbitch pointed out this weak that Jade has the same agent as Davina McCall and a load of the other C4 'stars'. Something to think about.

I don't necessarily think she's a racist, however from the couple of episodes I have seen..there can be no doubt whatsoever that she is a BULLY. Everyone knows bullies are cowards, which goes some way to explaining her apology to Shilpa tonight. Damage limitation at its most obvious.

What gives you the right to Judge someone based on intelligence? Is this the way we benchmark people? Or do we use where they come from (figuratively)? (the gutter as you say)? Should we even be judging people like that at all?

was a comment on standards and morals in the country


but to celebrate this ?


is this correct??

Oh, you're no fun. ;nana;

Honestly, I don't think Jade's bright enough to consider crying on TV as damage limitation. I am loving this, I've never been into this crappy show before but I am now.

(http://morning-breath.freeonlinegames.com/images/5284.jpg)

(http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/7771/jadesshhmu2.gif)

I hear the SS have dropped her from that particular ad campaign

when is sofa kings nieghbour going in?

The Pc brigade have finnaly taken over the country....this has been bullying not racist, the comment about England and fish n chips is spot on...no big deal, but same poppadom and racist uproar...the media is the main culprit, I dont know anyone who thinks it has been racist. Just some half wit females ganging together....

Oi, that's sexist. I'll set the papers on you...

 ;applause; lol exactly!!!!!!!!!

No it isn't. Just an accurate description!

Gutted they didnt let the crowd come - what an absoluet kop out

Bet Davina goes soft on the interview

We are all so sad - i havent watched this for 3 years at least and im now tuned in

Channel 4 must be laughing!!!!

TV remote is on the sofa so no joy for me, live update any1?

Triple X check your pm

The world has gone mad

boring so far

soft interview by davina

jade on the defence

pathetic racist bullying bigot

she can't be a bigot. That much is clear. I might of missed something but 'name' followed by a world renonuned national dish is not racist. If an irish bloke has been in there and some one said 'dave' shamrock' or 'dave guiness would there be this much fuss. There is nothing happening in the world right now so lets blow something way out of proportion

Yeah, channel four seemed to be moree sympathetic to her than I expected.

Tame.

Of course they were sympathetic she's BB's own homegrown celebrity(used in the loosest term)

It's not the one name, it is the 3 names that she called her. Poking fun at her Indian name, I personally don't think she came across as a racist at all, but she has to be responsible for her actions. Especially on TV, that sort of behaviour is not acceptable at all.

If either of my kids said things like that in school, I would expect them to get punished (extra to the punishment i would give them). If I was to use that sort of language about a work colleague I would face punishment. Racism maybe not, acceptable definately not.

The "I can't be a racist cos I ate chicken curry" line might have saved her.

PMSL

I thought Davina was obviously un-supportive(sp?) of Jade's behaviour, this was shown by her direct questioning. While Jade was squirming in her seat trying to answer Davina's questions, Davina's face showed she was unimpressed by everything she was being told

Anyone notice Jade saying "I can't talk about one of the names I called her, because you told me not to"  - some rapid damage limitation briefings done in the ad break as she walked into the studio methinks.

BTW the Poppadom wasn't too bad, Fuckwallah however had major racist overtones (they didn't show it tonight I noticed).

I thought she was let off a bit light over the racial abuse, but Davina tore into her about the bullying. I reckon she'd been told to plea-bargain not defending on that to try and get out of the racism accusations.

Yeah --- there was a couple of cock ups... Jade in the middle of one sentence changed the descriptive at the start. It was clear from that moment on that she had either been told, coached or warned.

It seemed like she had been told something either in the house, or as she came out, but was told not to mention it to the veiwers...

At the beginning of the interview some of the people in the audience told her to stop saying it - I presumed that was who the 'you' was here.

The producers had a word with them in the house this afternoon and filled them in on a lot of what had been going on (they had to explain why there was no evicition crowd). Hence Jade's rather surprising 'out of the blue' apology to Shilpa and cuddle.

Jade

She should take advise off her mother

Regards

M

I saw a couple of episodes before the main rumpus kicked off and I thought there were racist attitudes coming to the fore. The kind of banal racism that I see in evidence pretty much every day from every ethnic group. On Question Time last night all the panellists were of the opinion that the attitudes on show in the BB house aren't a reflection of wider society, I beg to differ, whether it be racist 'whites', 'blacks' or 'asians' it's endemic in our society. Best WE can do is challenge these views wherever practically possible and not let the nastiness of others contaminate our thoughts/values.

Exactly...when she repeated the poppadum name people in the audience were telling her not to say it again.

I dont think she is a racist ...a bully im not so sure about either. She has been branded a bully because the other 2 girls were "on her side" and sniggering in the background. Danielle is a little sht stirrer and has sat back watching with glee as Jade has hung herself out to dry.

IMO Jade speaks her mind and this has just been a clash of personalities...I really hope Jade has a strong enough character to come through this.

She must be 1 very frightened and upset lady tonight.

But where do you draw the line???

I am Scottish and live in England, I get called "sweaty sock" "tight as a ducks ar$e" and varies other names that are associated with my origin.

Its like calling all Irish "thick" and reminding the Welsh of their love of the wildlife...it will only be taken as offensive if the person it has been said to takes offence.

This has been blown up out of next to nothing in my opinion.

If people in my company use terms like 'these people don't cook their food properly' and the like, I challenge them as to who 'these people' are and what distinguishes 'us' from 'them'. I don't call the Irish 'thick' and try to avoid nationalist stereotypes like that. Either way, what I saw on BB was more incidious IMO and in the examples I'm referring to there was a nasty racist undertone aimed towards 'asians'. Interestingly, this came from the other two girls, not Jade. The fact that many people think it's ok to use the word 'paki' in everyday speech is symptomatic of the problem. All too often people that question/challenge such usage get labelled as 'pc' or 'oversensitive' which for my money is totally backward/ignorant thinking.

IMHO Jade is too thick to even realise that she is wrong, Ditto Mr Sherringhams bird (he must be so embarrassed of her, but serves him right for copping off with an airhead like her in the first place)

Educating people is the only way forward, and by this being so public, it will surely make people think a bit more.


Personally, I hope Jade Goodie disappears down the toilet and never darkens british TV screens again, she is indicative of the "Celebrity culture" in this country .... And it is getting more and more difficult to distinguish between fame and celebrity.

Ask kids at school to name 5 famous people ..... I bet you would be surprised by their answers.
And when you get those answers, ask them what exactly they are famous for ...then piss yourself laughing as they tell you.

it is also my opinion that Ch4 should be severely punished for allowing this to happen.

Just one last thing to ponder, If Lauren Harries (sofa's best friend) had been in the house, and victimised and segregated as shilpa was, Would we have the same uproar ?  It would have still been equally appalling in my mind, but i fear it wouldnt have been seen as such by the public/media.

 :goodpost: SPOT ON!!!

Good point about 'Sofa's' neighbour.

Confused as to how the following statements are in any way consistent tho:


"This has been blown up out of next to nothing in my opinion."


" SPOT ON!!!"

She is BOTH.


Frightened and upset about being exposed as a bully and a racist ?

OR

Frightened and upset about pissing away her future earning potential ?

I bet Jade has never been to a country without a western culture, if she had I think a lot of it would have been avoided. What she said was as a result of being very naive

They did show a video of a Jade on a trip to India, saying this proves that she can't be racist. 

Ah well, I agree with Kev, lets hope she never gets back on TV. She has enough money to go and hide away with (between 4-8 Million, if the reports are true) and never be seen again.

Or is this another way of getting more money. More magazine spreads, and you know women will by these in their droves.

I agree


When I was at School, my hero's were all sports people, nowadays Kids look up to people like Jade Goody or some X Factor singer.

How depressing to hear that Jade got a whopping 21% of people voting to keep her in the house.  Were these people voting to keep her in as they wanted to see a bloodbath, or do they genuinely support her behaviour?

Who knows? Either way it's a pretty shocking figure that doesn't reflect well on the UK. I was anticpating (hoping) at least 95%/5% in favour of Jade getting evicted.

perhaps this 21% hate Shilpa?

I have not read the whole of this thread, but will have my 2p's worth anyway.

My initial thoughts of Shilpa was that I did not like her attitude at all - quotes like "I am very famous, and would be upset if people did not recognise me or talk about me" made me feel that way. NOT the colour of her skin.

This country (imo) has gone too far (as it has with children "you cant hit me" etc...). People use the racist card far far too often. Yes Racism needs to be stamped out, but I do not think ANY of the antics in the BB house constituted racism. Nor do I think any of the antics were bullying.
I was bullied at school and what went on in BB house was not bullying (imo).

All that happened was a very outspoken girl (Jade) took a dislike to Shilpa (who happened not to be English). Pure and simple.

If you reverse the personalities of Jade and Shilpa, and it was Shilpa that was outspoken about her feelings towards Jade, do you honestly think ANYONE would of called Shilpa a racist???? Of course not!!

Or, if Shilpa had been English, do you think there would be the same uproar? Again of course not.

Blown out of all proportion?? Hell yes!!

Jade got a hard time from Divina and I thought she handled it very well.

i do think shilpa is a little up herself IMO, also i must agree that the racism card is brandished too often i had a disagreement with a driver in Southall who had enough room to drive a bus out of a parking space but couldn't get there VW Golf out of it, because i said "you should learn to drive mate", they then accused me of being racist because they were Asian.
In my work i deal with people of all races and religion day in day out and as a result i have come to the conclusion that you can be an Ahole wether you are White, Black, Yellow, Green, Pink or Mauve and i treat people on that basis.
If someone treats me like an idiot i will happily treat them the same way, as i will respect anyone who treats me with respect.

I love the tabloid puns.

A sidebar about Liverpool politicians and famous scouse TV personalities like Paul O'Grady rushing to distance themselves from Sherringham's Liverpudlian missus.....

"Danielle Walks Alone"

8/10 for that one, there must be at least a niner somewhere in this fracaa though.

The ironic thing is, Jade will probably be chosen to be a representative for the anti racism and bullying campaigns that will  result from the latest BB series.  They will take the angle that if a well liked celeb can be a racist bully, then anyone can. She will give talks to kids about how negative bullying is and at the same time pick up a nice pay slip. I hope I am wrong

Outrage in India seems exagerated.

All the pictures I've seen of protestors from the subcontinent look like staged groups of no more than 20.

Neither, it's just that Jade makes great TV, she's fantastic viewing IMO, something to make everyone angry.

I might just add guys the fact that when jermaine jackson called some1 in the house white trash that wasnt mentiond.

ther is nothin racist ppl r jus bein stuipid about what jade sed.if she was ime sure shipla wud of sed so.
#
and as for rascist comments white trash is more racist than anythin else sed on the show.

yes..F Off home wasn't meant in a racist way at all. (said by Sheringhams bird)

I wish sum 1 wud start askin about jermanes comments

those 3 birds are white trash, he just stated the facts...

no but its racist sayin white trash same way it wud be if sum 1 sed chinease trash or black trash dnt u think so?????????

I think white trash refers to certain group of individuals and not to the entire race.  It is a cultural reference not racial one, so calling someone white trash is not racist.

2 of the birds are just plastic titted bints who have the MOST annoying accents in the world, have never passed an exam in their life, never read a book, never said anything intelligent/witty, never had to work hard in a job and who i wish would either wake up and realise only shit comes out of their f*cking mouths or find a nice, quiet way of killing themselves.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh

How much better do i feel now ive said it!

 Ks KingPoker Ks

So what do you think of Jade and her two buddies?

Personally i agree with this quote taken from the the Sun editorial today -

""She has left the house with her true personality laid bare - a vile, pig-ignorant, racist bully consumed by envy of a woman of superior intelligence, beauty and class."

"

still prefer my editorial above!

Tabloids arn't backing down  :D

Just in the same way as if there is a pakistani gentleman I dont like, and I call HIM a "paki bastard" - THAT is against HIM and not against people from pakistan.

????

It's just another way of saying trailer trash, it is not a slur based on race but on your social-economic grouping. Typically the uncultured/poor americans.

Flushy has answered to your question in  away.  White trash is not a racist term while 'paki bastard' is.  If you can't see a difference between the two, no point of talking. 

I have to say I always think it's rather funny when white (middle aged?) fairly well off men complain about not being able to use term such as Paki Bastard...and how a term like white Trash is racist aswell.

If you can't see the difference between the two there really is something seriously wrong with you.

My uncle is no racist - he is just of a certain age that I would say makes him and people like him exceptions.. I know its wrong but he will call a pakistani gentleman - Paki, and there is absolutely no intention to cause harm. He will call black people - Darkies. Does anyone have older relatives like this?

He is 70 and says it was the normal when he was younger, and its people nowadays who have developed the problem.

Yank - American. Australian - Aussie. Italians - Iti's. Danish - Danes. Pakistani - Paki.

Couldn't agree more, and it's not often I can say that about something that was in the Sun!

strongly disagree

You call someone a bastard you are attacking them.

You put paki alongside that attack, the implication is that part of the negative feelings you feel towards him, is because of his coming from Pakistan.

This can be and usually is extremely offensive for not only that man, but also others from that country.

It doesn't matter if you don't mean to be racist, when it comes to matters of insensitivity, all that matters is how you are percieved. If I went to school in this country, and kids who didn't even know me called me a paki bastard, it would be rather offensive if, when I grew up, adults are still using it against me.

(Pisses me off even more if I'm from India)

Hiding behind the technicality that the man is from Pakistan, and that is why you called him a Paki isn't going to wash with many. When used in the context of attacking him so, it is a very common racial slur, and completely unacceptable.



Another thing, if you don't like someone, why call them a bastard at all? Whatever happened to quietly getting on with it? (A little beside the point though)

 rotflmfao

bless

My Gran used to say this.  One time we were in a ASDA lift and two black guys came in.  She was very deaf and in a loud voice said to me "Oh fancy, those two darkies must be here for the festival".  That weekend there was an African arts festival taking place in the local town hall.  She meant no harm by this and it was purely a generational thing.

This thread is turning into the auction on 'how my grandma and grandpa are calling others "darkies' and don't mean any harm.'  Seriously ....

Maybe because i was brought up in the real world then i can add a realistic opinion.

Not that i agree with it but why shouldnt you call someone a paki bastard!

It doesnt differ from if i was overweight, that someone should call me a fat bastard.

It is commenting on your outward appearence which is not nice but it is an observational remark that has gone on since the start of time (in respect of using someones appearence in a degredative way!)

And why do we now feel that it is up to us to slap the wrists of people who do this. As long as you dont participate in it yourself you can still sleep at night.

Im just tired of this censored, politically correct bullshit time that we live in. I dont agree with racism in any way, shape or form but i dont believe in people having to worry about saying one comment which might slightly upset someone. Do u think it will bother shilka. NO- Because she knows deep down that she is a much better person who is secure and proud of who she is.

It's Shilpa....you illiterate bastard!   ;D

Are you taking the piss?

That would be a piss taking bastard

 rotflmfao

this post is

offensive
ill thought out
wrong
and...

racist....

Boldie, Tantrum

I was just putting a point of view foward for discussion, I did not even say it was MY point of view.

I just think things have gone too far.

Take "Black Boards" for instance. Some time ago, schools changed the wording because "Black" people found it offensive.

How can it possibly be offensive? It is a board, and it is black.

Do you see the point I am trying to make?

They changed them because they are white now.....at least i thought that was the reason.





You think thats bad check out his Super casino post!

Black board is now known as a Chalk board

Wrong James.

They were changed to "Chalk Boards"

Until Jim Davidson put a stop to it.

Great way to debate something, the "I am right so there" attitude.

Put foward your reasons why using "white" when insulting someone is any more/less racist than using "black" ?

If Jade Goody is in trouble for her comments and behaviour at least she can head for the nearest synagogue to take refuge.

Bit like your reasoning on why you should for A5 in that sat hand!

The way i see this debate is would we rather over sensitive and appear overly PC or would we rather under do-it and allow racism to creep back into the mainstream.

do i need my  ;popcorn;

hmmm James, lets not go there again, i DID put reasons foward in that thread, you just wanted more.

Anyway, question :

What makes a comment racist?

Is it if the person "saying" the comment means it as racist, or the person "recieving" the comment is offended?

Serious question btw

First time ive had to use the report to moderator button... theres a political party for people like minded like him.. the BNP.

No need for that at all.

Whatever the reasons behind Jade Goody's dislike towards Shilpa in BB, she is a bully end of story. I am not sure if it was racially motivated or done due to jealousy because of Shilpa's appearance,intelligence,classiness,etc,etc,etc.  The plain fact exists, Jade is a bully and any form of bullying is wrong in my eyes. She should be sent into the media wilderness because she is a bully and the fact she may or may not be racist shouldn't come into it.  Kids shouldn't look up to a bully

Both.

OK James - you say both.

Do you mean both make it racist, or either of them?

why ?

Because not even the authorities are allowed inside.

                                                                                ;popcorn; ;popcorn;

Either.

OK then James, so "white trash" IS racist then - no matter where the saying comes from, or that the person "meant" it as a "class" comment?

If a white person is offended by the comment?

see, this is the problem I have when arguing this point especially with white men. Over the past few 100 years "whites" have been (and some, if not most would argue still are) the dominating race on the planet and they/we have not always been (let's say) gracefull about that..


Using the term white in this context does not have the same negative undertone which most terms (like Paki, and Blackie etc) tend to have.

When is the last time you heard the word White used as a racial insult? Is the term "White trash" REALLY the same as calling someone  a "Black/Paki Bastard"?? I think you'll agree that they are slightly different.

white trash is not racist per se. Please have a look at the etymology of the term and then come back to the forum.  The 'white trash' as Flushy said before was originally 'trailer trash' and was refering to poor working class families (american term).  It refers more to the poverty and the conditions those people live in rathen then their ethnic qualitites.

Racism-
The difference is quite clear;

Boldie, yes I see the difference.

The difference is that white people see an attack on their race as  less offensive as other cultures would.

Why should it be like that?

And as James has also said, if the person whom the comment is aimed at finds it insulting in a racist way, then it is racist, no matter if the person meant it as a racist comment or not.

This was my point I was trying to make.

when is the last time the white race was attacked? I have never had someone insult me racially because I'm white. when was the last time you were`racially abused for being white?

KINGPOKER- your post is disgraceful...
BTW the name of the actress is SHILPA,


and racial abuse is outlawed in this country, and this is a reality.




M3boy, not really.  you have to be able to differentiate between racial abuse and plain insult.

Have you NEVER been called an "english bastard"???????????

if you truely believe the term white trash to be a slur against your race Paul then i will endeavour to make sure i never use it in your presence.

Much like i hope the bastard you earlier referred to will not be called a Paki bastard if he felt the same way.

The English are not a race Paul they are a nationality.

James, i have not said I would find it racist, I was just debating the subject.

Would Pakistan not be a nationality and not a race then?

how is my post disgraceful. You would not be making a fuss if i spelt michael like mikel so don't go picking at it trying to make out 'oh shes Pakistani or Indian so i will just say it how i want. I honestly have not watched a second of big bro or read about it so i could not be sure!

I retract my statement about it being ok to call someone a paki- the point i was trying to get over was i just hate the fact that if SHILPA was overweight and jade went round all day calling her a fat bitch/cow/whale mess no one would give a shit. But because she ever so slightly referred to the colour of her skin then OMG its the biggest thing since the war!

i just HATE the hypocrisy of people not giving a shit about someone being abused about their weight but perk up like little do-gooders when colour is brought into it. Thats no better than being a racist because all your doing is being a sort of filter. Allowing some hurtful comments but not others. Ridiculous hypocrites.

good post

You can't just retract saying its ok to call someone a paki bastard it's already shown everyone your true colours.

Fat people can change being fat they can lose weight its probably down to laziness, poor diet, lack of exercise etc etc.. if they don't like it they can diet.

What a ridiculous comparison.

How many wars have been fought over the average weight of a nation......how many have been fought over a nation's ethnicity or race?

If you can't see the difference then i will change my opinion of you to just ignorant.

wtf is this meant to mean?

what an ill-though of comment

Guys, just to request that the debate remains civil.  I'm trying to avoid deletions and some of the comments have sailed close to the wind at times.

I can see the sensitivities around KingPoker's original post but its been debated too much to make deletion an option at this stage.  I don't agree with much of the sentiment expressed in it but its become a part of the debate now, and for that reason it's staying up.

Please don't give the Mods any reason to start making deletions.  This subject matter is tough enough to moderate as it is!

Sheriff

I think you have just shown your true colours. As a qualified sports nutrionist i know a little about obesity and it doesnt purely come down to the small minded opinion of lack of exercise and diet. There are lots of genetic factors that i wont go into that affect metabolism, physiological factors affecting hunger and psychological reasons. You are idiotic in your comment as you believe it someones FAULT that their FAT! You could offend as many saying that as saying something aboutg their colour.

So it may be time for you to retract the statement or learn the facts to back up what you say!

This is getting heated, and rightly so.

Hopefully everyone will see my posts as "debating"

Beilieve me, racism is unnacceptable in my book as are any comments against someone that detrements them in some way (be it size, intelligence or whatever)

In my book it is just as hurtfull to insult someone because of their race/creed/colour as it is for any other personal reason (size, wealth, intelligence etc...)

What % of people are fat because of genetic inhibitions?

?[/quote]

Flushy has answered to your question in  away.  White trash is not a racist term while 'paki bastard' is.  If you can't see a difference between the two, no point of talking. 
[/quote]

r u mad white is a race so is pakistani so is loads of others.so if i sed paki trash and white trash u saying that one is racist and the other not.u hav gt to be seriously having a laugh

As one of the fat people of the world I find this attitude just as bad as anything along racist lines.  Discrimination of any sort over someone's personal attributes is still discrimination.

a very small number- less than 1.5 % but the other factors i mentioned are common place througout the obesity epidemic (and that is what it is commonly referred to).

What do you mean I have shown my true colours lol?? So if I change my statement to "THE MAJORITY" of fat people then its perfectly ok? Britains problem is to do with its cultural and upbringing. I mean wow only 2-3 yrs ago you couldnt get a salad in mcdonalds... times are changing now yes but we won't see a swing for 20-30 years.

Flushy has answered to your question in  away.  White trash is not a racist term while 'paki bastard' is.  If you can't see a difference between the two, no point of talking. 
[/quote]

r u mad white is a race so is pakistani so is loads of others.so if i sed paki trash and white trash u saying that one is racist and the other not.u hav gt to be seriously having a laugh
[/quote]

Its not that white is not a race, its about the term "white trash" it is an American term that alludes to a person's social-economic background, not everyone who is white trash is white.

EXACTLY my point!!!!

Well said that man!

AND IF PEOPLE ACTUALLY READ MY, NOW, DEBATED POST RIGHT TO THE END IT SHOWS IM NOT A RACIST. I HATE RACISM AND WOULD NEVER STAND FOR IT BEING CARRIED OUT FACE TO FACE, ONLINE OR ANY OTHER WAY!

THE POINT OF THE THREAD WAS TO SHOW THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE IN THE LEVEL OF PERSONAL ATTACK IN CALLING SOMEONE A 'PAKI' BASTARD TO A FAT BASTARD.

The one is no worse than the other and vice versa

I think there are certain prescription drugs which make you put on weight. Also people can have psychological problems which cause them to eat too much.

Me I just eat too much junk food and don't do any exercise :)

 >:? >:?

SUITED JOCK- you are right in the fact of how society is contnually changing (and mainly for the best)

But if you genuinely do think in your head that people are fat coz they eat too many mars bars and crisps and they can lose weight by simply running for 6 months then you are a very ignorant person.

Why James??

I would certainly like to see some hard facts on this matter but I do not think I am too far off on my mark. I also find it funny by making that statement i am thrown in the same boat as being a racist. Everyone is telling me how wrong I am yet is unable to provide any facts numbers %'s etc.

Calling someone a racial derogatory term is bang out of order slagging someone about their personal appearance is also not justified I am just trying to go to some lengths as to distinguish the different severites of the two.

Flushy i think you are the ignorant one sir.

Do you think it would be easier for a overweight school kid to go thru school being bullied everyday with all the nicknames that could be thought of than,
A pakistani school child being subjected to racist coments every day.

The two children could both have positively correlating psychological reactions to the bullying. One is no better than the other!

My point all the way along.

For a start its generally considered being overweight is a negative thing, someone's race should not be considered a negative aspect of their being.

ffs James,,,, try saying this argument to parents who have seen their children destroyed at school (even lead to suicide).

Jesus!

But in our society flushy (uk) i would say racism is a factor in any part of britain you go. I also believe that the same applies to fattism. Both can be, by some idiots, to be negative.

So you need statistics to tell you that its not OK to discriminate against a certain category of people?  Interesting point of view.

I am not saying we should stop people getting abused for being fat.

I am saying that Racism is a much more severe and dangerous thing to allow.

Did you even read my post? Looks like you just skimmed it and put 2+2 together to get 6.

I didnt come into this argument to take sides here... I just thought it was bang out of order that KingPoker can come out and say its ok to call someone a paki b****d.

I for one suffered years of bullying for being overweight at school but there are soo many idiots and sheep who will join in that whats the point in trying to fight back against it? The scarey thing is when you grow up the same people are about try ironing that out of society .. its not going away.

The difference about racism is that it is actually against the law to do and say things against another race.

I have to say in my high school (mid wales) we were a 100% white school. Until my last year when a young black 12 year old joined and i have to say he made mates staright off and i know because i dealt with it, being a prefect, that any rsacist remark to him would have led to the person who said it being hurt or reported straight to the headmaster. NOONE STOOD FOR IT even in the schoolyard.
But i can say for a fact that 100's of hurtful comments were directed at the oerweight kids and its very hard to prove but it was accepted (not by me but everyone would expect the kid to stand up for himself!

MY GOD CAN YOU IMAGINE IF WE HAD AN ASIAN OR BLACK OR PAKISTANI BLONDIE ON HERE BEING ABUSED.
THE RACIST WOULDNT KNOW WHAT HIT HIM!!!!!

BUT WHAT IF IT WAS A OVERWEIGHT PERSON. WOULD YOU GO JUST AS MAD OR SECRETLY LAUGH AND SMIRK (THATS WHY ITS WORSE TO ME!!!!!!!)

SUITED JOK- I DID READ YOUR POST AND REPLED WITH WHAT WAS A CORRECT REACTION TO YOUR POST!

I THINK YOU ARE THE ONE WHO MISREAD THE THREADS.

AS I HAVE POSTED 3 TIMES!!! NOW ON THE POINT OF MY THREAD BEING THAT YOU CAN NOT DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN SOME1 BEING CALLED A PAKI BASTARD TO A FAT BASTARD. THEN YOU CAME STORMING IN THINKING I WAS SAYING ITS OK TO BE RACIST. I DONT. IM GOING TO TRY AND FIND MY FAV POSTER ON THE NET KNOW NOW WHICH SHOWS WHAT I THINK OF RACISTS!

You seem to think that one form of physical discrimination is 'better' than another.

I am still somewhat stunned that people consider someone being called a Paki-bastard the same as calling someone a fat bastard.
I am not condoning calling people fat bastards but I think it's fair to say that calling someone a fat bastard would be called bullying..whereas calling someone  a paki bastard is essentially always racist.

and I do think there's a difference between bullying and racism (not condoning either obviously)

Kingpoker, you can still be passionate without the capital letters!

Thanks.

Sheriff (with Mods hat on again)

Where did I state that? Where did I say its ok to slag someone for their physical appearance?

I think much of the Big Brother stuff was bullying, regardless of whether or not it was racially motivated.  Even if Jade could categorically prove she hadn't been racist, there's no denying she, and the others, were bullying in that situation.

I've also read somewhere that Jade is involved in an anti-bullying campaign, which I find somewhat ironic.

Ok I think we mix two things here.

Bullying is terrible, and perhaps if more people who are subjected to fattism should stand up and encourage others not to tolerate fattists remarks.

If a kid is bullied at school because of his/her weight there are measures in place to force the school to take neccessary steps to prevent the bullying and punish the bullies.

But so far we dont have a political party who promotes fattism, I haven't heard of riots and violence against a community of larger people, I haven't heard of fattist' motivated murders.  


Racism is a terrible thing, it is used for political purposes, to dehumanise others and to say that racism is not as terrible as bullying is plain ignorant

I just dont think that the one is any more or less acceptable than the other. I wouldn be any less disgusted with
someone name calling a person coz they were overweight than a different ethnic background!

you may be able to say one is called rascism and and the other bullying boldie but they both get placed in the same major classification- DISCRIMINATION. Where thay can be said to be of the same proportions

Sorry but this just is not true.

One of our kids was bullied for a LONG time for being overweight. NOTHING was done.

Now,had the bullying been "of a racist nature" - then it would be treated MORE serious - which is TOTALLY WRONG

Whilst going slightly off topic here there is nothing the schools can do to prevent someone being bullied. It will happen its shocking but true. Any measures they take will simply result in the target of bullying getting it worse.

If anyone feels by any of my posts that I think slagging someone about their weight is justified I apologize I know how much this hurts and it was never my intention to have people believing that.

I still think that racism is a whole lot worse.

To be honest I think they are not of the same proportions.

Bullying is bad there's no doubt about that..but racism is much much worse in my opinion.

History shows that racism leads to terrible things. Race attacks, persecution, illegal prosecutions etc.
Having someone tied to the back of a car and dragged along a city street untill his skin peels off (happened not that long ago in the States..2 years to be correct) because he is black is on a different level from bullying.
Having political parties marching through the streets and generally promoting hatred towards anyone with a different skin colour is on a completely different level from people/kids being bullied at school.

Again, bullying is a massive problem and should be dealt with harshly but it's on a different level from racism in my humble opinion.

.

I do actually agree with this post jock. But i have to say racism isnt any worse. Its just more prevalent. We are in the middle of an obesity epidemic and im afraid "fat-bashing" is going to become much much more of a comon thing and im afraid its going to start right from the start of school and may carry on into the office place in later years.

and why!?
Because its ok. At least he's not being racist or saying anything about his religious beliefs! (its disgraceful!)

I think one of the main differences is if person a calls person b fat they are doing it as a direct attack at that person for whatever reason... it doesn't mean they hate all fat people its taking something that will obviously cause the person hurt and it will hurt them 100% of the time.

Call someone a racially derogitry term and it is not just an attack at the person its an attack at them their heritage and all their friends and family.

Countries have not gone to war because of differences in personal appearance they have however because of their believes and colour of their skin. - Its flushys point and I Agree not looking to look like ive stolen it.

:goodpost:
Its just that i feel its going to get much worse as it becomes more prevalent, but this difference is we have no legislation againt discriminating overweight people. You are right that the results of racism are hugely more predominant, just look at eastern europe in the 80's and 90's.
But thats the problem, its much more publicised, discriminations of other types (like the fat issue we are debating here) goes on much more subtly and in the shadows and is still accepted as "'aving a laugh with someone". But the truth is its no nice to suffer fat remarks as it is racist!

Big brother normally makes fascinating viewing...the other night I saw the infrared cam catching someone actually turning in their sleep.
Am glad Jade has been shown up for the thug she is. Caught the whole thing on Youtube and agree that Shilpa held it together well. The whole incident is of overwhelming importance and deserves maximum publicity, *cough* especially if a member of your political team has just been arrested on suspicion of perversion of the course of justice and you want attention elsewhere. *cough*

Coz it's not nice.



Where's my prize?  ;kev;

yes thats why i retrated it- because the main point i was trying to say was worded wrong.  I just feel that you can put what you want in front of the word. It doesnt make it better or worse. Theres no difference in you being allowed to call some1 a paki bastard to a fat bastard. It doesn make it better or worse that its racist. Its the fact that you are discriminating against them for a reason which i bet you, wasnt the reason for the start of the provocation!

who would have thought that jade's thread will provoke racism vs fatism debate?

I didn't get that far in the reading of it. Soz

and do yu know what, i just watched her on the news and she seems unbothered by it!

next- the publicity stunt.

any guesses what it will be?

Gotta be a goodwill mission to India.

Any form of discrimation in which people are made to suffer is dam right wrong, whether it be fat/skinny/black it is wrong and should not be tolerated.

The problem is caiused by the mixture of the descriptives'. If we call someone a 'bastard', that is not going to hurt too much. If we call someone a paki/fat/skinny/black by itself that is bad. It's when the 2 terms come together that offence is taken. You call someone fat, whois fat. they cannot refute the argument, they may get upset. You call them a fat bastard then that is absolutely out of order.

If you call someone a Paki, and they take offence to it, then it is considered racial abuse. And IMO rightly so. Although I would argue that you would not then be able to call a scotsman 'Jock', Australian 'Ozzy'. These are not derogatory and are not considered derogatory by the nations.

But Paki is considered racial abuse because it was used as a derogatory statement throughout the 80's and 90's, and for me its all about respecting the wishes of the poeple who the term is aimed at.

Jesus Christ, i just nip out for dinner with my brother and when I come back the thread's gone mad! With people calling each other fat racists! AND TYPING IN CAPITAL LETTERS! That's it, I'm never going out again.

I still think Shilpa's a bitch, by the way. Can I say that? No dog lovers I'm offending or anything?  :)

OI, NO WOMEN ALLOWED  ;yellowcard;

So one rule for Muslims/Arabs/Pakistanis and another for everyone else, yes im afraid so......now you cant even have bad guys as muslims without uproar...pathetic......


A group of Muslim activists who challenged 24 bosses over the show's portrayal of Islamic terrorists two seasons ago are attacking the program again. Officials at the Council on American-Islamic Relations met with producers back in 2005 when the 24 plot revolved around Muslim fundamentalists, and now they're upset again because the new season seems to portray members of their religion in the same shady light. Council spokesman Rabiah Ahmed says, "The overwhelming impression you get is fear and hatred for Muslims. After watching the premiere, I was afraid to go to the grocery store because I wasn't sure the person next to me would be able to differentiate between fiction and reality." The activists urged the show's bosses to meet with them again, but this time only succeeded in bringing them around a table for a conference call. Following original meetings in 2005, 24 star Kiefer Sutherland appeared in a TV commercial urging viewers not to assume all Muslims were like the terrorists portrayed in his series.

Really now I am lost for words, Jack Bauer to be burnt in India or Bradford next (oops is that racist?)

Muslim - Islam is religion sir.

what are you implying in your stupid post?

Whenever someone starts a thread on race, there is always the danger of it getting out of hand, c.f. the "Seinfeld Actor Racist Outburst" thread from a few months back.

Given the present political atmosphere, and the propensity of hate crimes in the US at the mo, I don't think the Muslims who peacefully voiced their objection at 24 were entirely without legitimate grievances.

Actually this thread so far is doing quite well.  But from time to time someone will burp some total rubbish which is promptly corrected by the majority.  

i agree with tank. Shows like that simply prey on the fears of current situations otherwise they wouldnt be worthwhile viewing. But it is problems like that influence ape-like people called racists to assume every muslim is a terroist when in truth islam is one of the most peaceful religions. It teaches to respect everyone and as such the khuran is considered one of the most beatiful pieces of literature in existance. It is the extremists that twist words into suiting whatever their underlying motive may be (a bit like those weirdos who believe they here the devil talking to them when they play bob the builder themtune backwards!)

Why is it a stupid post?

Why should there be any climate where any nationality cannot be seen as the "bad guy".

Hollywood had a phase of having the English as the bad guys in the 90s in many films, yet I dont remember international protests. Tank have you even watched 24? Shocked to see such a patheic pc reply, 24 has had english, american...heck even their own president as bad guys....I actually feel sick at your pendantic ignorant reply.

So easy to call people racist these days, when the callers are the flag burning warmongers.   

lol

I was going to ask, 'Is the majority always right then?', but that's just facetious, rhetorical... never mind. I am glad it's calmed down, the last thing I want to do is ;ifm; it up again.

Islam is a religion to start with, if you can't differentiate between the two then no point on talking about the other parts of your post.




who are the callers? muslims?  get a life... or go and join BNP forum for your ignorant views

So Muslim citizens of America who complained become flag burning warmongers to you.? If they haven't the right to complain without being compared to their own religion's extremists, then you crusades, inquisition, religion by sword, law based on the bible folk might be guilty of throwing stones in your own greenhouse.

What the hell am I been ignorant about?

My point is if any other culture had been mocked on Big Brother...Australian/Polish/Russian/Romanain etc...there would not have been the same uproar! This is why divides are happening, every culture gets mocked...English...Tea/fish n chips/bad teeth, but without violent threats and burnings...no crowd for the eviction is proof of how sad its got...

The bullying was out of order and Shilpa is a wise and nice person in my opinion, she has said its not been racist herself and that is what this subject is about in the first place!   

I'm scottish and do not wish to be referred to as jock, please desist :P

Seen it, loved it, bought the box sets.


There shouldn't be, but there is. It exists and needs to dealt with, with a degree of practicality.

If a loyal US citizen, who happens to be a muslim, has had their children beat up on the way to school by other kids playing at Jack Bauer, they're probably within their rights to write a wee letter off.

Of course it's not the fault of 24 that schollyard bullying, or more violent and serious hate crimes occur in the US. They didn't help the situation though.

Nor will Keifer Sutherland doing a 30 second spot on how it's wrong to beat up on brown people solve the problem, it will help the situation though

So the peaceful protestors got a sort of result. Great.

The more of that wot goes on, people listning to each other and making concessions, the less blowing up of stuff will go in this world.

In this tale I say yayay Muslims protestors, and yayay 24.
 

Scottish? don't you have funny accent? ;whistle;

 :redcard: :redcard: :redcard:

Tantrum is a proof in point, he now makes an innocent joke about the scottish accent...but earlier berates me.

He would not dare make a joke about a Far east accent and that is what is wrong with the pc enviroment we now live in.....

Tantrum's a chickie

this was not an innocent joke; I was targeting TightPaulFolds on purpose.  It is called playground flirting. I fancy tightpaul, and the only way he will react to my posts is when i comment on his accent on the the fact that he is scottish.

 ;noflopshomer;

I fancy tantrum. Nice pic! A little less makeup perhaps...

No so much

If I call Rod a fat proddy c***, it's probably ok. I know Rod. He might call me a sheep shagging bas***d and we'll get on with it.

If I call someone I don't know in Glasgow a fat proddy c***, it's probably bad.  It might not even be ok for me to speak to Rod like that, but it's certainly less ok to greet the stranger in that manner.


On a larger scale, the English culture probably knows the Scottish culture a lot better than it knows the Chinese culture. As far as severity of racial slurs go, there are probably degrees like with everything else. If we choose to be more outrages when the Star uses the word "chink" in a headline than when it uses the word "jock" is that such an unfair distinction?

Of course it would be great if it wasn't like this. Moving towards a worldwide community where we all rip the living shite of each other verbally, (a global Glasgow if you will) without fear of being accused of racism, but we ain't quite there yet.

Unfortunately this is permanent make up that was done on me 10 years ago when i was having my 4th op. they told me it will fade with time, but obv they lied:(

Certainly not the first person to assume she was a man, we all did too.

With a name like tantrum though, I guess it makes sense.  :D

I like her too, so loony liberal with stuff like this, she makes me look right wing. :)

 :-*

Yeah, lying sucks. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arOcofimB30) (Caution: Adult. V. funny tho :) )

less of the fat dolly-botherer ;)

just listened to it all. F*ck its funny. was never a big fan but going look for more stuff now. Everything he says in it is true!!!

Brilliant....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E83fGb-OeWY&mode=related&search=

Rod, you have to hear Tantrum's link. You will enjoy the last 8 seconds of it.

Is it just me or how much does chris look like grace jones in A View To A Kill. lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFjZxBRCeec&mode=related&search=

he is very good

it is you, chris rock is hot...

this is just funny, him talking about rappers.  Thanks Paul for the 1st link, I never really listened to Chris.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9A2I-X7b-w&NR

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q8LxO4wnCQ

ok last one for tonite, he is just so great... this one is about racism;)

racism?"!- whats that got to do with anything we have talked about tonight!  :dontask:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gCCjFbFXn8


OMG this is just great

just watched it. We should leave that link as the conclusion to this thread. Im off to bed!

Back to a PC after a coupla days and really interesting to read all this stuff.

There was bullying, the catalyst, I think being typical English issues with class. Many english people remain very conscious of 'class' and can easily be intimidated and daunted by it - I think this led to the kind of behaviour we saw with three very jealous chav lassies ganging up to bully the clearly more intelligent, more refined, more respected, more famous, more beautiful, more capable, more tolerant.. Shilpa who preferred not to discuss, getting trashed, losing her virginity etc etc.

It was easy to see how Shilpa could have been seen as patronising or condescending from time to time but throughout she remained very dignified and showed great mental strength. Ultimately she was able to see the character of the chavs more clearly than they can see themselves - as a result she has shown a great deal of forbearance and forgiveness of their behaviour - dare I say it - classy ! Surprised some people here have said very neagative things about her.

I didn't see any overtly racist stuff directed at Shilpa but a horrible gang and bully mentaility developed and it became clear that Shilpa could do no right. When the gang discussed Shilpa when she was not present it was very clearly racist - 'I think she should fuck off home' being one of the obvious examples. So, racism was very evident but for the most part it was a glimpse into very nasty bullying - imagine how it might have gone if Shilpa didn't have the fall back of being able to seek comfort with the more normal people in the house.

Jade is clearly a little intellectually challenged - I feel sorry for her and feel she is being made a scapegoat - when she said Shilpa Poppadom it would be like one of us referring to an Italian we didn't like and saying something like it was Antonioni Ravioli - bit childish maybe but not racist in my opinion.

When the big row happened she was vile and rude but I don't think it was racist or even bullying at that point, She just showed herself unable to debate on an adult level and resorted to a series of increasingly outlandish insults because she had lost control and was just about self aware enough to realise she couldn't win a normal argument. From that point on she was constantly on the brink of tears because, again, she was just about self aware enough to realise she had done wrong but didn't have the emotional intelligence to retrieve the situation.

I think Jade is guileless and fundamentally good hearted. Danielle and Jo were the truly nasty pieces in this play - ugly people, ugly characters who egged Jade on in an insidious way and then tried to present themselves as following Jade's lead - shockingly awful people. People whose faces, frankly, I would never tire of slapping.

I think the programme makers handled this reasonably well - I guess we don't know all the communications that go on between them and the contestants but I liked the way they appeared to resist the pressure to wade in and tell people to stop. Instead they held a mirror up to people like Danielle with open questions like 'What did you mean when you said xxxx ?' Far more effective and exposing of their hate-filled agenda.

I do think it is easy to be too PC and brand too many things as racist rather than 'differentist' but, as Flushy has alluded to many times very eloquently in this thread, it is probably better to be too PC than to let a kind of casual racism (prevalent still in the UK in my view) go unchallenged.

On a positive note, in many ways I think it is amazing how little overt racism there is in this country as opposed to how much there is. Also, it is a massively more positive environment for asian/black people here now than say 20 years ago.

Don't know why I wrote so much but I think it's because this programme has ended up stimulating a whole load of deabte about the nature of our society that it's irresistible to have ones own tuppenceworth.

xxx

Agreed.

good post

off to bed, Chris Rock rocks for sure:)

Watched this the other night, couldn't help wondering if it was a white person saying exactly the same routine except using the word Chav instead of Nigga and White instead of Black what the reaction would be here...

You and Aki Nawaz might get on.  :)

He admits it at least

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeEwFhZWO_c

I think it's called self-irony...


There is a difference; as he is commenting on a situation that exists in the states and the divide that is very prevalent within the Afro-Caribbean community.  This divide is pretty bad, and it can't be compared to the divide between the 'Chavs' and 'Whites'.


what about this though?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi3DmCD5A_U&NR

would a white guy could get away with that?