Is it fair to do this?

[JungleCat03]

I really couldn't care less if the goat was stuffed into a box and died a slow and painful death if it somehow contributed to the sustainment of a human life.

Reading this comment however made me sick.  The idea that the needs of the human race should override any concerns about animals shows we are not really that evolved after all. Yesterday on Central news we were treated to the spectacle of 4 teenagers throwing of a Cat off the 10th floor of a tower block, running downstairs to bring it back up and repeating the process 4 TIMES !!  All while filming the entertainment on a mobile phone.  Anybody feel their needs overrides that of an animal ?  Or even a cockroach ?

I love animals too, but the example you give isn't relevant at all. Bolt was saying that he would gladly sacrifice the life of an animal to save a human life. Different situation to a bunch of kids torturing a cat for amusement. (I recall the cat survived its mistreatment too - big up to da felines)

Do I feel my needs override that of a cockroach? Er, Yes. If Jack Bauer has captured me and a cockroach and is convinced one of us is a terrorist, better beleive Im sticking a long beard and "osama bin-roach" name tag on the cockroach. No way I'm taking a bullet for him.

I am assuming the human misery in this case was the injury the homeless guy sustained to his foot while kicking his dog.

Every time I look at the news and see the evil the human race is capable of I grow more and more convinced that the human race is a plague upon the Earth which will eventually destroy it.  That which makes us "Better" than animals is less obvious these days.

One thing that makes us "better" than animals is whilst we may mistreat some animals, I don't recall the last time a pride of lions held a fierce debate before mauling a wilderbeest. Calling us a plague on the earth is a bit OTT and  is ironic seeing as the bacteria that contribute to plagues are also living organisms and surely fall under the all-emcompassing spectrum of the idyllic, utopian guardianship of life that you crave.

If I seem harsh, it may be because we've jsut lost on penalties AGAIN.

Good debate.

[Raindogs]

I love animals too, but the example you give isn't relevant at all. Bolt was saying that he would gladly sacrifice the life of an animal to save a human life. Different situation to a bunch of kids torturing a cat for amusement. (I recall the cat survived its mistreatment too - big up to da felines)

erm..  No.  This is what Bolt actually said..

I really couldn't care less if the goat was stuffed into a box and died a slow and painful death if it somehow contributed to the sustainment of a human life.

That is not the same as saying sacrificing the life of an animal is ok to save a human life (which it is).  As regards the "Happy Slapping" Cat.  No.  It died.  Cats may have nine lives but getting chucked off the tenth floor of a tower block four times is a bit much to survive.  I am assuming they didn't want to try it a fifth time beacuse the Cat was unable to move at this stage and it wasn't worth the bother, as if the Cat was no longer moving it wouldnt make much of a film.

One thing that makes us "better" than animals is whilst we may mistreat some animals, I don't recall the last time a pride of lions held a fierce debate before mauling a wilderbeest. Calling us a plague on the earth is a bit OTT and  is ironic seeing as the bacteria that contribute to plagues are also living organisms and surely fall under the all-emcompassing spectrum of the idyllic, utopian guardianship of life that you crave.

I am no philosopher but I believe our capacity for compassion, feeling for the needs of others, and mercy makes us different to animals who do not have a sense of self awareness other than instinct.  The Lions you describe were having their lunch.  I am not a Lion but I imagine they look at the animals they kill as fast food.  They kill to eat and have not comprehension of the suffering their prey.  The example I gave was of extreme cruelty to an animal but there are worse examples involving cruelty to childern, other people etc..

As regards the "Plague" comment.  I am not an idealist, eco warrior, or green in any way but what positive contribution do you think the human race has made to the planet ?

[The Baron]

"Do I feel my needs override that of a cockroach? Er, Yes. If Jack Bauer has captured me and a cockroach and is convinced one of us is a terrorist, better beleive Im sticking a long beard and "osama bin-roach" name tag on the cockroach. No way I'm taking a bullet for him."

Spot on.

Would I sacrifice a goat for an African family? Yes. Without question.

[JungleCat03]

Bolt was saying that he would gladly sacrifice the life of an animal to save a human life

I really couldn't care less if the goat was stuffed into a box and died a slow and painful death if it somehow contributed to the sustainment of a human life.

Without wanting to get into a pernickety semantic debate, if you don't sustain something, it dies/ ceases to be. So essentially he is saying he would gladly sacrifice the life of an animal (possibly involving suffering for the animal) if that resulted in saving/sustaining a human life. That's pretty much what i said!

I was going off memory on whether the cat survived or not. The BBC report couldn't confirm whether the cat survived but I doubt very much whether a cat thrown less than 10 times off a building would die. It's kind of incidental and irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact that most people, particularly myself for obvious reasons, would find their behaviour utterly reprehensible and deserving of harsh punishment.

However, if by some bizarre set of circumstances, throwing a cat multiple times off a bulding was the only way to save a human life, I'd be fine with this, despite the fact i would hate seeing a cat suffer. I'm having trouble thinking of a scenario where this would be the case.....possibly a bomb is about to go off on the floor below....you can see the large trigger which needs to be pressed to deactivate the bomb in the next 10 seconds.....you have a baseball pitcher's arm....... and you happen to have a cat in your hand....attached to your hand with a bungee rope....and you miss the first three times??? A tad contrived I guess. 

What positive contribution has humanity made to the planet? Hmmmm, this is a very profound question. I would think a hundred people would give you a hundred different responses. Off the top of my head, I'll go for literature, language, art, technology, the simpsons, tuff-fish's bad beat videos, 24, bacon sandwiches, origami, eva longoria, football (not penalty kicks), the red hot chili peppers, blondepoker forum, guitars, alcohol, deodorant.

I'm sure i've left one or two things out.

[bolt pp]

thats exactly what i was saying jungle cat but it seems as though that particular sentance is being purpousfully misinterpreted with the intention of using it as a platform on which to deviate this thread onto matters of a more ecological nature.

In actuality i'm an animal lover that cares greatly for the well being of the animal kingdom in its entirety.

I do, however, stand by everything i said.

[Lee]

The cat story was only on the news yesterday, after the 4th drop, the cat was found crying in agony in an alley with horrendous internal injuries and severe brain damage. It later died.

When I watched this story, I felt physically sick, the 18 year old neandothal with his impressed groupies were the lowest of the low in my opinion and if someone had put the moron who instigated this barbaric action in front of me, i would have killed him right there, i was livid to say the very least. I am not a violent person, but people of this sort will never be decent human beings and the less time they spend on this earth and their subsequent inabilty to reproduce more scumbags the better. For anyone who didn't see this, he actually held the cat out over the balcony by the neck and then dropped it 10 floors. This was repeated a further 3 times. Can you imagine going back down to pick the cat up and repeating it with the cat squealing in agony?

I sorely wished to get hold of that scumbag and hang him over the balcony and instill the fright into him, which he inflicted into the cat. Until people like him can be neutralised instantly, this world will continue to get worse and worse and eventually disappear up its own arse.

As for Africa and many of the others in poverty, until the world addresses the real issue and stops using this bullshit propaganda of "starving" and "no clean water" to make us feel guilty, poverty will be around forever and as such is a battle that can never be won. Corrupt governments are the problem and families who continue to reproduce children even though their last 3 have died from malnutrition. Contraception and eradication of corrupt governments are the key, however this is always misrepresented as pictures of starving kids are considered far more valuable as a fund raiser.

AIDS in Africa is something so much focus and money is spent on. I'm sure i read that 5 million (sounds alot i know) people in Africa die from AIDS each year and they are trying to stop this happening. Can you imagine if AIDS in Africa was eradicated, we'd have 5 million more people desperate for basic food and drink.

Nature and evolution control this earth not us, without either of them the human race is finished. We think we are the rulers of this earth and can just walk over or destroy whatever we want. As the saying reads "never bite the hand that feeds you".

Too much shit has gone on for far too long, the world needs to "cut the crap" and get on with solving the real issues.

[Sark79]

The cat story was only on the news yesterday, after the 4th drop, the cat was found crying in agony in an alley with horrendous internal injuries and severe brain damage. It later died.

When I watched this story, I felt physically sick, the 18 year old neandothal with his impressed groupies were the lowest of the low in my opinion and if someone had put the moron who instigated this barbaric action in front of me, i would have killed him right there, i was livid to say the very least. I am not a violent person, but people of this sort will never be decent human beings and the less time they spend on this earth and their subsequent inabilty to reproduce more scumbags the better. For anyone who didn't see this, he actually held the cat out over the balcony by the neck and then dropped it 10 floors. This was repeated a further 3 times. Can you imagine going back down to pick the cat up and repeating it with the cat squealing in agony?

I sorely wished to get hold of that scumbag and hang him over the balcony and instill the fright into him, which he inflicted into the cat. Until people like him can be neutralised instantly, this world will continue to get worse and worse and eventually disappear up its own arse.

As for Africa and many of the others in poverty, until the world addresses the real issue and stops using this bullshit propaganda of "starving" and "no clean water" to make us feel guilty, poverty will be around forever and as such is a battle that can never be won. Corrupt governments are the problem and families who continue to reproduce children even though their last 3 have died from malnutrition. Contraception and eradication of corrupt governments are the key, however this is always misrepresented as pictures of starving kids are considered far more valuable as a fund raiser.

AIDS in Africa is something so much focus and money is spent on. I'm sure i read that 5 million (sounds alot i know) people in Africa die from AIDS each year and they are trying to stop this happening. Can you imagine if AIDS in Africa was eradicated, we'd have 5 million more people desperate for basic food and drink.

Nature and evolution control this earth not us, without either of them the human race is finished. We think we are the rulers of this earth and can just walk over or destroy whatever we want. As the saying reads "never bite the hand that feeds you".

Too much shit has gone on for far too long, the world needs to "cut the crap" and get on with solving the real issues.

good post

[madasahatstand]

Without wanting to get into a pernickety semantic debate, if you don't sustain something, it dies/ ceases to be.

What positive contribution has humanity made to the planet? Hmmmm, this is a very profound question. I would think a hundred people would give you a hundred different responses. Off the top of my head, I'll go for literature, language, art, technology, the simpsons, tuff-fish's bad beat videos, 24, bacon sandwiches, origami, eva longoria, football (not penalty kicks), the red hot chili peppers, blondepoker forum, guitars, alcohol, deodorant.

I'm sure i've left one or two things out.

yes unless you sustain something it dies and the most profound thing about your post is what you think humans have done for this planet.  how does football, the simsons or literature sustain the planet? you've lost me.
If humans gave up polluting the planet that would be a start but we are so greedy and self centred that most of us cant see the most important reality. LIFE! We are the scurge of the planet and the fact that there are kids out there who would toss a cat off a 10 story flat really worries me. i dont think i know anyone who would do that. well i hope not.
I think that the human race will wipe itself out and take every other species with it. we appear to have a desire to conquer what sustains us. we have a whole lot of learning to do and we are really just infants on this earth. we are more interested in what star is sleeping with who. our focus needs to change or we are doomed. we need to know that the earths lungs are healthy and we need to start practising preventative strategies to make sure the old lady is fit for purpose in another million years.


mad

[mikkyT]

Junglecat wins the prize for most bizarre post. Bungie jumping cats and big red buttons!?

it matters not what lives or dies but how it played the game... Im happy to sacrifice the goat. But not to tourture it for entertainment.

When did blonde become an outlet for extremists?

[madasahatstand]

The cat story was only on the news yesterday, after the 4th drop, the cat was found crying in agony in an alley with horrendous internal injuries and severe brain damage. It later died.





As for Africa and many of the others in poverty, until the world addresses the real issue and stops using this bullshit propaganda of "starving" and "no clean water" to make us feel guilty, poverty will be around forever and as such is a battle that can never be won. Corrupt governments are the problem and families who continue to reproduce children even though their last 3 have died from malnutrition. Contraception and eradication of corrupt governments are the key, however this is always misrepresented as pictures of starving kids are considered far more valuable as a fund raiser.

AIDS in Africa is something so much focus and money is spent on. I'm sure i read that 5 million (sounds a lot i know) people in Africa die from AIDS each year and they are trying to stop this happening. Can you imagine if AIDS in Africa was eradicated, we'd have 5 million more people desperate for basic food and drink.

are you saying that kids in Africa are not starving but have fundraising potential? i think we can safely assume that people are starving. the part you say about contraception has lots of cultural issues attached. this was on a previous post so i wont comment on that part.
the 5 million people with HIV have so much money spent on them. thats the biggest bunch of bull Ive heard this side of Christmas. the problem the Africans have (apart from prevention) is that the big pharmaceutical companies have a monopoly on HIV  drugs which cost an absolute fortune. Africans are dying needlessly because we have the drugs but they don't have the money to buy them. i may be wrong but i think you are saying this is OK because they would starve anyway? well thats how it reads to me. if this is what you mean, I'm really dissappointed. its an absolute disgrace and I'm ashamed at times to live in a western 'civilised' society. say we took socialist principles and shared all the material riches in the world with Africa and they shared their natural resources with us. we would not have these huge problems on the planet. but people are so greedy and they want to keep what they have as it gives them power and that power buys them more choices in life.
looks like I'm going to have a bad start to my day   good debate though but it rings home to me that changing the planet is a near to impossible task, even when you look at the different opinions on here for starters. scary!!

[Scottish Dave]

sometimes i really wonder if your at the wined-up!

what the hell is this thread all about lol

[madasahatstand]

dave

in a nutshell the debate started looking at animals, humans and morality. althouugh the subject has been explored in more depth, we are still debating the same issue

mad

ps no wine for me. its too strong for this time of the morning. ill stick to fruit juice

[Scottish Dave]

dave

in a nutshell the debate started looking at animals, humans and morality. althouugh the subject has been explored in more depth, we are still debating the same issue

mad

ps no wine for me. its too strong for this time of the morning. ill stick to fruit juice

TBH Mad i didnt read any of the thread just the initial post, and burst out laughing, Sark must be a wined / whined / whwywhnned (sp?) up merchant

[madasahatstand]

dave

sark does like to start a good debate. this one got me fired up this morning or maybe thats athe caffine kicking in !!


mad

[Sark79]

dave

in a nutshell the debate started looking at animals, humans and morality. althouugh the subject has been explored in more depth, we are still debating the same issue

mad

ps no wine for me. its too strong for this time of the morning. ill stick to fruit juice

TBH Mad i didnt read any of the thread just the initial post, and burst out laughing, Sark must be a wined / whined / whwywhnned (sp?) up merchant

lol