Next move?

[ACE2M]

fumbo is a solid mtt player and cash player. Whats your move?


Table 'Umbriel III' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: fumbo420 ($1035.75 in chips)
Seat 2: enri125 ($680.95 in chips)
Seat 4: lobojiji ($591 in chips)
Seat 5: atlantic3 ($214.45 in chips)
Seat 6: utreg ($591 in chips)
Seat 7: tommyk1 ($893.55 in chips)
Seat 8: Radioheads ($585 in chips)
Seat 9: Denlou ($75.50 in chips)
Denlou: posts small blind $3
fumbo420: posts big blind $6
g0_all_in: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to tommyk1 [  ]
enri125: folds
lobojiji: folds
atlantic3: calls $6
utreg: folds
tommyk1: raises $18 to $24
Radioheads: folds
Denlou: folds
fumbo420: raises $72 to $96
atlantic3: folds
tommyk1: calls $72
*** FLOP *** [ ]
fumbo420: bets $280

[bhoywonder]

id change my underwear


lol

[NoflopsHomer]

Fold for me, he can't do that without having either at least AK with the  or an overpair without a heart. Either way you're in a marginal situation. Would he play JJ this strong?

[SupaMonkey]

Why didn't you reraise preflop?

I'm not saying that it was a mistake but i would have reraised to define my hand strength.

[leighton_87]

Fold for me, he can't do that without having either at least AK with the  or an overpair without a heart. Either way you're in a marginal situation. Would he play JJ this strong?

 

Press the fold button and swear and curse to yourself about the cruel flop, then if he turns over A's or K's than smile and thank the poker gods for the great flop

[ACE2M]

Why didn't you reraise preflop?

I'm not saying that it was a mistake but i would have reraised to define my hand strength.

he's a strong and tricky player, i can see him flat calling a re raise with a hand stronger or weaker than mine and then where do i stand?

the real hard part for me is the size of the bet on the flop.
i would have expected a raise around half what was actually raised.

[Claw75]

I agree with Homer.  I'd put him on AK with one heart, and probably fold here.

[NoflopsHomer]

I agree with Homer.

Oh dear, there's no hope for you.

[SupaMonkey]

Thanks for your reply ace2m. Although he may call your reraise it changes his opinion of the strength of your hand. Bob Ciaffone wrote 'whoever shows the most aggression preflop, usually takes down the pot'. I've gotta say that i agree with him.


As for the hand, i doubt he has a heart but he probably has aces or kings. I think his overbet is protecting his hand. He knows you have a hand (you raised a limper so you're not bluffing) and if he has i think he is more likely to check raise you allin. In saying that, i'm not playing with him and its a difficult situation. I disagree with folding if you put him on A-K, surely the correct play is to call and push the turn on a non-heart, ace or king.

Edit, if you are playing at a site that has allin protection, you could just pull the plug from the wall 

[totalise]

if you re-re-raise with QQ you give your opponent a chance to play almost perfectly. He will (almost always) fold worse hands, and call/raise with better hands. The third bet has almost zero value. With stacks this deep, the best play here is almost certainly just to call preflop, and then evaluate on the flop

With this flop, and his bet. what does your gut tell you? do you feel like you are ahead? I generally find that the first thought is usually the correct one. People say "how can instinct play a part of online poker".. well my own personal belief is that instinct is nothing more then an aggregation of information that has seeped into your subconscious, so your instinct is probably based on a lot of prior information, but you dont exactly know how/why/where it came from.

If you dont know what to do, I would probably fold. If he is a good player, its hard to see him doing this on a dry tank (although its possible). Why would good players go out of thier way to tangle with other good players when the stacks are deep, unless they had a goodish reason to do so. In my experience, people who raise out of the blinds here aren't doing it with AK, especially against good players with stacks, as they are OOP for the rest of the hand, and you have shown strength, so his play here is certainly indicative of a big hand, most likely AA--QQ. If I had to guess at his hand, I'd say he has KK/AA no hearts, but a) its also certainly possible he has the same hands with hearts, and b) whether you can get him off this is another thing completely. Only you will know that. I'd guess you probably wouldn't, but its only a guess



Saying all this, I haven't played full ring for a long time, so my thoughts might well be a bit rusty.

Claw says this:

"I agree with Homer.  I'd put him on AK with one heart, and probably fold here."

if you put him on this, then folding is a really bad play, as you are getting laid odds against and you are going to be a fav in the hand. You can call the flop and pushbot the turn if its safe. make him make a mistake, Pushing the flop wont make him make a mistake as he is correct to call


One other thing you need to consider (although its a small consideration)

I believe that the buyin on tribeca is 450 at 3/6 rite? If thats the case, how good are these people?

Seat 2: enri125 ($680.95 in chips)
Seat 4: lobojiji ($591 in chips)
Seat 8: Radioheads ($585 in chips)
Seat 6: utreg ($591 in chips)


if one or more of those is pretty bad, you might well turn down this proposition in order to ensure that you cover the bad players in case they make a huge mistake against you.

[ACE2M]

if you re-re-raise with QQ you give your opponent a chance to play almost perfectly. He will (almost always) fold worse hands, and call/raise with better hands. The third bet has almost zero value. With stacks this deep, the best play here is almost certainly just to call preflop, and then evaluate on the flop

With this flop, and his bet. what does your gut tell you? do you feel like you are ahead? I generally find that the first thought is usually the correct one. People say "how can instinct play a part of online poker".. well my own personal belief is that instinct is nothing more then an aggregation of information that has seeped into your subconscious, so your instinct is probably based on a lot of prior information, but you dont exactly know how/why/where it came from.

If you dont know what to do, I would probably fold. If he is a good player, its hard to see him doing this on a dry tank (although its possible). Why would good players go out of thier way to tangle with other good players when the stacks are deep, unless they had a goodish reason to do so. In my experience, people who raise out of the blinds here aren't doing it with AK, especially against good players with stacks, as they are OOP for the rest of the hand, and you have shown strength, so his play here is certainly indicative of a big hand, most likely AA--QQ. If I had to guess at his hand, I'd say he has KK/AA no hearts, but a) its also certainly possible he has the same hands with hearts, and b) whether you can get him off this is another thing completely. Only you will know that. I'd guess you probably wouldn't, but its only a guess



Saying all this, I haven't played full ring for a long time, so my thoughts might well be a bit rusty.

Claw says this:

"I agree with Homer.  I'd put him on AK with one heart, and probably fold here."

if you put him on this, then folding is a really bad play, as you are getting laid odds against and you are going to be a fav in the hand. You can call the flop and pushbot the turn if its safe. make him make a mistake, Pushing the flop wont make him make a mistake as he is correct to call


One other thing you need to consider (although its a small consideration)

I believe that the buyin on tribeca is 450 at 3/6 rite? If thats the case, how good are these people?

Seat 2: enri125 ($680.95 in chips)
Seat 4: lobojiji ($591 in chips)
Seat 8: Radioheads ($585 in chips)
Seat 6: utreg ($591 in chips)


if one or more of those is pretty bad, you might well turn down this proposition in order to ensure that you cover the bad players in case they make a huge mistake against you.

I'd been fairly active in late position involving his blinds (i had been getting genuine hands but not going to showdown) and had slowly been taking the limpers stack as he limped almost every hand.

I felt like he was protecting a hand with no heart (AA,KK) although i hadn't ruled out AK with a heart.

I called with the intention to muck the turn if he continued his aggression and my hand didn't improve.

The fell on the turn and he moved all in. I folded.

I thought it was a nasty situation and wondered how many advocate a fold on the flop, i would have liked to have raised a smaller flop bet but his overbet threw me totally. I cursed myself afterwards thinking it was a fairly easy fold on the flop although i'm not so sure now. I think he had AA with no heart.

[GlasgowBandit]

The flop is murder when holding QQ.  I agree with your thought process ACE.  I too would have put him on AA, KK, AK with no hearts.  The big bet on the flop suggests to be he wants to know exactly where he is, and it seems the right ammount as you say you would be looking to raise a smaller bet.

[WellChief]

I would personally have folded on the flop here, I'd suggest the same as Totalise - AA/KK , and most probably with no hearts.