Call or Fold?

[mjrevie]

Very simple, do you call or fold in this situation? Given the pre flop raise, and innocous flop, is TPTK good enough here?

PokerStars Game #6015897400: Tournament #30474873, $10.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Match Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2006/08/22 - 20:52:42 (ET)
Table '30474873 2' 2-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: mjtr (1400 in chips)
Seat 2: DJKebab (1600 in chips)
mjtr: posts small blind 10
DJKebab: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DJKebab[ ]
mjtr: raises 80 to 100
DJKebab: calls 80
*** FLOP *** [ ]
DJKebab: checks
mjtr: bets 150
DJKebab: raises 230 to 380
mjtr: raises 920 to 1300 and is all-in

[totalise]

Call

[NoflopsHomer]

Call, the board is very draw intensive.

Pair and a flush draw?

[Graham C]

Early on in an HU match?  Call. 

Could be all over but I'm suspicious of people wanting to get lots of chips early on.

[Enzyme_]

Call no danger is someone raising with J9 tho and if they do in the long run they wont be so lucky

[boldie]

Call no danger is someone raising with J9 tho and if they do in the long run they wont be so lucky

fold every time. too many draws out there and the blinds are still very small. at the start of the tourney i hate these hands..you will very possibly run into J9 here

[LeKnave]

Id expect in a $10 tourny a player would check a J9 on that flop in general...

And judging how aggressively he's bet it, it state he probably doesnt have the J9...I feel he is more likely to have 2 pair then J9. 

But on the grounds of how aggressively hes bet it id call it and hope its a QK, QJ.


What did you do in the end?

[ifm]

Fold, it ain't worth it.

[Enzyme_]

Call no danger is someone raising with J9 tho and if they do in the long run they wont be so lucky

fold every time. too many draws out there and the blinds are still very small. at the start of the tourney i hate these hands..you will very possibly run into J9 here

yeh i agree if it was latter in tourney id give it a pop still think i would try it even on low but thats my crazy callign routine

[mjrevie]

Rest of hand history.

PokerStars Game #6015897400: Tournament #30474873, $10.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Match Round I, Level I (10/20) - 2006/08/22 - 20:52:42 (ET)
Table '30474873 2' 2-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: mjtr (1400 in chips)
Seat 2: DJKebab (1600 in chips)
mjtr: posts small blind 10
DJKebab: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DJKebab[ ]
mjtr: raises 80 to 100
DJKebab: calls 80
*** FLOP *** [ ]
DJKebab: checks
mjtr: bets 150
DJKebab: raises 230 to 380
mjtr: raises 920 to 1300 and is all-in
DJKebab: calls 920
*** TURN *** [ ] []
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
*** SHOW DOWN ***
DJKebab: shows [Ah ] (a pair of Queens)
mjtr: shows [ ] (two pair, Tens and Eights)
mjtr collected 2800 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2800 | Rake 0
Board [ ]
Seat 1: mjtr (button) (small blind) showed [ ] and won (2800) with two pair, Tens and Eights
Seat 2: DJKebab (big blind) showed [Ah ] and lost with a pair of Queens

In this case, I was MJTR and another blonde poster was DJKebab. We got into an discusiion after about whether or not he could get away from it. I thought he could, he didnt think so. He check-raised me so he was representing huge strength and then i re-raised him all in. What range of hands would i do that on that he can beat? I felt that the obvious holdings for mjtr were AA,KK or two pair or a set.

As for my aggressive betting, i wanted him to think i was trying to boss the game. If he calls, i win - if he folds, i think he'll start playing back at me with marginal hands.

[SupaMonkey]

In this case, I was MJTR and another blonde poster was DJKebab. We got into an discusiion after about whether or not he could get away from it. I thought he could, he didnt think so. He check-raised me so he was representing huge strength and then i re-raised him all in. What range of hands would i do that on that he can beat? I felt that the obvious holdings for mjtr were AA,KK or two pair or a set.

As for my aggressive betting, i wanted him to think i was trying to boss the game. If he calls, i win - if he folds, i think he'll start playing back at me with marginal hands.

Yes but he may have thought you were playing in a typical ridiculously over aggressive stars HU manner (i.e. somone who is also likely to turn over  in this situation).

[mjrevie]

That is always possible. We play each other on a regular basis, live and online, and we had been discussing each others game earlier on. He knows i would be capable of doing the same move with  , but even then, he is only 2-1 favourite. If i'm going to be playing crazy, why not wait and trap me at a better time than this?

DJkebab will be on later I think to give his opinion on it.

[SupaMonkey]

Is he going to get better than 2-1? If you pull this type of move aren't you always going to leave yourself outs. How many is the minimum to for you to pull this move?

[mjrevie]

If i know for sure someone has a flush draw, then i call. However, given the way mjtr was betting,  is only one hand out of a range of hands mjtr could be pulling this move with (others are AA,KK, 88, QT, J9, etc). Given that i'm not sure which hand out of the range mjtr has and that some of them have me dominated, some of them have me nearly drawing dead, i think i would fold this. However, if mjtr shows me    , i call in an instance.

Speaking about yourself in the 3rd person is more difficult than it first appears.

[DJKebab]

The way I try to look at this is from a long-term perspective rather than the tournament in isolation. Yes, there were a range of hands that had me beat and some that had me dominated, but there were also many scenarios where I could have been ahead, what with such a drawing heavy board.

Also knowing more about the style mjtr plays than I would against a random opponent, and knowing that he is capable of making this move on a draw or perhaps even worse if he thinks I'm at it, I maintain that calling is correct here. I think over the long term it's a profitable move.

I await thoughts/abuse...