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Author Topic: How to play A-Ko UTG with an M of 5.5ish?  (Read 3082 times)
dino1980
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« on: February 21, 2007, 04:01:02 PM »

This hand was posted on another forum yesterday and sparked some lively debate, so i thought i'd post it here too. I was not involved in the hand so not sure how it turned out, but that isn't the point of the post.

Anway it's a strong table, 30 left, 18 get paid:

Table 12 - 400/800 Ante 100 - No Limit Hold'em - 0:04:26 ET - 2007/02/20

Seat 1: SB (18,473)
Seat 2: BB (18,215)
Seat 3: HERO (11,426)
Seat 4: UTG+1 (25,671)
Seat 6: MP (23,995)
Seat 7: Hi-jack (12,034)
Seat 8: Cut off (14,140)
Seat 9: Button (20,226)
mjorgenson13 antes 100
BB antes 100
the HERO antes 100
UTG+1 antes 100
MP antes 100
Hi-jack antes 100
Cut-off antes 100
Button antes 100
SB posts the small blind of 400
BB posts the big blind of 800
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to the HERO [ ]
HERO: ??

I think there's arguments here for making a standard open raise (2000-3000), for limping with the plan to push if someone raises and also for open shoving. I think i'm more inclined to standard raise though and if we get called be prepared to shove any flop as open raising looks stronger than shoving. Thoughts?
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kinboshi
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« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2007, 04:09:30 PM »

How bad is calling, and then pushing all-in if there's any raise?  Or is it too transparent?
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The Baron
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« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2007, 04:13:05 PM »

I'm lumping it in here.
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dino1980
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« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2007, 04:16:21 PM »

How bad is calling, and then pushing all-in if there's any raise?  Or is it too transparent?

I like that play too and think it works in this spot. Even though the Hero only has 11,400 the biggest stack at the table is only 25000. If we limp and there's a raise from the blinds to say 3000 (both blinds playing around 18k) and we shove there'll be c.16000 in the pot and it'll cost them around 8000 so we may get called by a wide range of two high card hands and weaker aces that we're ahead of, and also may get a fold if they think we've got aces or kings.
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Graham C
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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2007, 04:24:00 PM »

I'm pushing here.
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Highstack
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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2007, 04:36:55 PM »

It might pay 18, but I think the pay structure is irrelevant 18th is usually about money back.  Who tf enters a tournament to win their money back? 

Anyhow with stack position and blinds next and then presumably going up again soon, your M is even lower and this is a strong starting hend - certainly better than you are liekly to see in the next few. I jam all in here 100% of the time and want a free round.

You can't afford to get fancy and murder any chips here. AA & KK are less likely as we hold one of each (and we still beat KK 1 in 3). If someone wants to race they are welcome to try, but mid pairs should find it difficult to call.

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doubleup
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« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2007, 06:25:53 PM »


If it's a tough table you are unlikely to get them to make a mistake by going AI - you won't get called by AQ.  However it has the advantage of picking up the blinds with limited risk. 

A standard raise isn't that much different as you will probably only be called or raised by a hand that would call an AI, plus if you are called and miss you have a difficult situation to deal with.  So I think a standard raise is an inferior play to AI.     

With limping there is a slight possiblity that you could be raised by AQ or raised by a pair that folds to an AI.  The flop isn't that difficult to play against the blinds - they will check to you and a bet of 1600 should take the pot, fold to any resistance unless you have hit a monster.  The blinds should be aware that you could have limped with a big pair, so if they show any interest post flop they probably have a big hand.

There's not much between limping and AI and probably the best option depends on what you have been doing previously and the other players.  If you have limped before and folded to a raise, then limping probably is best.  If you've pushed or raised a lot, that might be best again.

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UpTheMariners
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« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2007, 06:55:09 PM »

id be pushing unless your at a very aggressive table with people raising with alot less
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temp0r
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« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2007, 09:01:17 PM »

there's alot of dead money in the pot. but not quite enough to risk shoving and losing coinflip. i much prefer to limp and reraise all-in if there's any raise. it's a powerplay baby. never fails.
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Longy
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« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2007, 09:05:17 PM »

Im shoving, maybe this is because i play sng's instead of mtt's.
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AlexMartin
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« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2007, 12:20:39 AM »

I like the standard raise, you allow medium pockets to call preflop then shove on any board where they hopefully fold.
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pswnio
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« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2007, 12:23:59 AM »

Limp then re-raise all in. So many players aren't able to lay down their AQ, AJ or even AT once they've stuck in a raise.
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Smart Money
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« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2007, 01:44:32 AM »

Just stick them all-in.

You don't want a raise from a Middle Pair who is then unable to fold to your all-in (and it's about 50/50 whether there's a pair out there.) Even best case scenario (Vs AX) you're less than 75% favourite.

There's 2,700 in the pot (blinds + antes + your call) so I'd have thought it's better to pick up 25% with as minimal risk as possible.

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« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2007, 03:27:48 AM »

Pushing for more than 10xbb pretty much declares your hand as AK. It's rarely correct to push when you have over 10BB imo. (unopened pot)

I raise to 2500/3000 here and fire a pot bet on the flop if i am called (unless i hit then i might get cheeky)
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« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2007, 09:25:30 AM »

Fair point, but at that stage and with blinds due next, I might open push with JJ too from first position. You hold something like 88/99 and are playing a stack just enough to have me covered, you suspect its AK, are you calling? Similarly, if you make it 2000 with AK and someone jams behind you, again probably a medium pair, do you now want to race with your AK?

Sure there could be a few donks pushing with AQ, but its not a spot I like to play with that stack when out of position. I have Ace high and I don't want a call, but I know that I probably have 2 live ones if I am called and that I am likely to be racing. Assuming I miss the 7 high flop, I now have to decide whether to jam or not oop. If I check, he bets, I pass and waste 2000. If I bet, he jams I lose more. If I jam, he now probably calls with his mid-pair anyhow. I just prefer to avoid these spots and I don't mind if it looks face-up.
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