Hand of the Week - 14th May

[NoflopsHomer]

This hand is from the WSOP 2004, $2000 PLHE event. 1st level with the blinds 25/50.

The hand is from a book, so if you do know it, please don't give away the answers.

You're playing the part of Mr X - big name player, highest stakes, good tournament player. You have 2,600 in chips. Your opponent is a complete unknown in the small blind who starts the hand with 2,200.

You pick up in early position and raise to 150. Folded round to the small blind who raises it 350 more. You decide to call, the Pot is 1,050.

Flop:



Your opponent checks. Action on you.


1. Do you play the hand differently at all preflop?

2. Your opponent has checked the flop, what do you read into this?

3. If you bet, how much? And if you check, why?

[boldie]

Action preflop is fine. QQ can be a dangerous hand when reraised against so the flatcall hoping to hit a set is OK.

I am taking the reraiser for an ace so when he checks I bet my set here. 800 to go (slightly smaller than the pot)

[TightEnd]

its pot limit. pre-flop i think its fine ...allows you to get away reasonably if it comes A or K and he bets out post flop..if he trap checks you can check behind and see the turn

once you've hit your set, I bet it out hoping to be check raised....

my stack is going in the middle here, barring something very strange

[snoopy1239]

1. Do you play the hand differently at all preflop?

Not really, might have raised it 50 more, but, to be honest, it depends on the table, the company I'm holding and the history of what I'd seen thus far.

2. Your opponent has checked the flop, what do you read into this?

Well, considering he's a complete unknown, the check could mean a whole multitude of things, but after re-raising pre-flop, you have to put him on either Aces, Kings or maybe A-Q or Jacks.

3. If you bet, how much? And if you check, why?

Because there's an Ace on the Flop and he's re-raised pre-flop out of position, I'm putting him on Kings. Therefore, I want to keep him in and hope he calls bets on the Turn and River. Also, it keeps the pot small if he does indeed have the Bullets.

[Ironside]

i like preflop play

on flop i bet 1/3 to 1/2 pot allowing him to think a full pot check raise would get me off the pot and insure he is pot commited

as i am the pro here and playing an unknown who always think the pros are at it then i am also thinking of the possiblity of him having a straight draw with a hand like KJ or KT or JT
the only hand i am ruling out is aces as its the only hand that can beat me and i really really want to get my chips in here if he has aces then so be it its poker

[MANTIS01]

1. Do you play the hand differently at all preflop?

I agree with everyone else....pre-flop play is standard.

2. Your opponent has checked the flop, what do you read into this?

I think that the appearance of the ace coupled with my opponent's check could be a worry. When the re-raise came in pre-flop you would have to be thinking A-A, K-K or A-K (or at least that is what the bet intended to show). The important point to note is that his re-raise signified that he thought he had the better hand. I think that to check the flop when the ace hits is either very weak poker or the continued actions of someone with a big hand. Surely my opponent is going to come out firing with any hand other than a monster here. If he had K-K a bet is necessary here to find out how the land lies, so representing here is a standard play. Why isn't he doing this?

The check makes me think he has A-A, A-K, A-Q or 6-6.

3. If you bet, how much? And if you check, why?

Absolutely bet. I am not entirely sure the amount matters. Our opponent has either given up on the pot or is ready to play back at us. A bet of about half the pot seems about right. If he flat calls we could be in trouble. If he check-raises I think A-K is more likely.

I think the chips are going in on this one.

 

[Harry Demetriou]

Here we go again ...but I love these hand analysis questions as we can all learn a lot from them regardless of who we are.

THis si long so don't read if you want your mind and thinking contaminated.

Firstly it is going to be tough to play this hand with very little information about the small blind but you are going to have to make assumptions based on their age and apparance and whether they have yet played any hands. In the absece of information then I am going to assume they are a regular OK type player. I am also going to have to guess if they are a scalp/name hunter or somone who knows or recognizes who I am and as such whether or not they will rush into playing pots with me or avoid me by giving me too much respect.

Pre Flop Play:

As the first player into the pot it is expected that I raise because in a tournament most players play tighter and you have a greater chance of picking up the blinds. This tightness is further exaggerated early in tournaments (FIRST LEVEL HERE) as players generally say to themselves that they are going to play only good solid cards and start off by being tight.

However this is POT limit holdem which differs from NO Limit holdem where genrally there is a sprint to get all your chips into the pot with premium hands. Because of this players when facing a pot sized bet are always getting 2/1 which makes it difficult to fold playable hands pre turn which means it can be difficult to force people off draws. Hence when you play a hand you often have to build the pot yourself by relatively sow playing some hands lik pairs in early position.

Holding pairs such as Tens or better in early position can therefore be rewarded by limping if there is a subsequent raise as it gives you an opportunity to make players who raise you make a decision for all their chips pre flop even though they may have some left over once theflop has arrived. Its a bit like making someone pay dearly if they have an inferior hand to you pre flop as usually the best hand holds up in a flop game like holdem (NB It can backfire if you get loads of limpers behind you but and no rerasie but thats life and you take your chances).

eg you limp in early position with your QQ for 50 and there is 125 in the pot. Assuming nobody else limps which can be an absolute bonus when it gets to the small blind he may raise to 225 (50 + 175) which means there is now 350 in the pot so I can re raise to 525 (175 +350) making a total of 700 in the pot. Bascially in this kind of scenario the sb loses more when he is behind than if you raised and makes the pre flop play more important when the flop comes as essentially further play committs all your chips as you each only have around 2000 with which to play.

Hence there is definitely a case for slow playing big pairs or QQ in this case from early positon in the first level of a pot limit tournament in order to build a bigger pot if someone subsequently re raises.

A final comment on the pre flop play assuming it goes down as described is to ask yourself what kind of hand the small blind has and what he thinks you have? He knows you are in early position and that you are likely to have a hand of quite a wide range of values (any pair from 88 to AA, any AT or better, or two cards suited if over a Ten if you are an aggressive good/great/well known player. However most likely as its a tournament he also knows that you as a goo/reat but not quite so aggressive player most likely have a premium hand which reduces the range somewhat because you are in ealry position and know how disadvantageous it is to play marginal or mediocre hands from that spot. This gives him more reason to re raise you with a premium hand because he may get you to re re raise with a worse hand than his. Because he is in the small blind (out of position) I believe that there are very few hands that the small blind can raise with and that these hands are AK, AA, KK, QQ (unlikely as I have the other two) and possibly JJ. With TT or 99 I would expect a call unless against a really aggressive playe like a Gus Hansen, David Benyamine or Patrick Antonius.

Flop Check:

I put my Small Blind Opponent on a hand that hit the flop unless he held JJ. It is now impossible for him/her to hold QQ as I have two of them and the board has One of them. I can't believe he re raised with something like KJ or 66 so the gutshot straight or bottom set is unrealistic. Likewise unless he is a very poor player I do not believe he has AJ or AQ (unlikely as I have the Queens) which also would not be reraising hands against an early position pre flop raiser. This leaves us with him holding AK (twelve combinations) AA (3 combinations) or KK (six combinations). With KK I think that the SB has to make some kind of mandatory bet to find ou if I have an Ace unless he want to play it like a winner and check rasie me should I bet but this brings me to another concept that I believe is relevant here because it is 2004.

Now I hear you all ask what relevance this has? Well I would say it is this.......

The poker boom has just started and is around 1-2 years old. Most people have been brought up on a diet of limit holdem and in limit holdem they have limit mentality in tht when they flop a monster (small blind holding AK or AA) they tend to check becasue they are waiting for the turn to get the chips in as in limit that is where the bigger (twice original size) bets come in. This is a mistake in big bet poker as what you want to do is win a big pot and to do that you need to bet ut when flopping something big and hope your opponent also has hit something big as in that way you win a big pot and all of an opponents chips. (I am not saying its wrong to slow play a set of aces by the small blind in this spot just trying to explain how limit thinking affects a lot of players thinking and action in pot limit and no limit).

So what do I make of my hand after the check on the flop by the small blind? I like having a set and am probably going to go broke if my opponent has top set because I can't throw my set of queens away but I am going to proceed with caution anyway and hope my opponent has an AK which is four times more likely than AA. In other words I will bet and make a decsion if the small blind calls or check raises so at least give myself some chance of getting away from my hand although in reality I think its impossible for me to do so.

I would bet around half the pot (500) or check but I am committed to going broke on this hand if necessary as I simply have to play my hnd as a winner. I am not good nough to fold although by betting 500 if my opponent then goes all in I have at least the miniscule chance of folding my set but if thinking objectively and adding the pieces of the puzzle you have to conclude that the only hand you can beat if check rasied is AK as this is one of only two hands your opponent is likely to be holding (other is AA) but its a nigh on impossible lay down.

[Ironside]

intrested in the dact you dont reckon the unkowns dont play back at the pros with marginal hands harry

i think that reraising with KJ KT JT are possibles as some players dont respect the pros raises

apart from that i agree with your post

[hotdog]

. Do you play the hand differently at all preflop?

no i flat call same way.

he re raise show me that more than likley he has a huge hand. i personaly fell aq minimum but unlikley because i have 2 queens and one has flopped but still a possibility. ak or aa maybe kk but i dnt think so unless hes a donkey as he would almost certainly have to bethe flop to see where he is.


Your opponent has checked the flop, what do you read into this?

there is still little info after he checks.i prob still unsure what he has at this point but. like i said he could well hav aa. 2hands are going to pay you a and aa maybe ak if he cnt put it down. the check to me is signifying strength he re raise you pre flop and now check the flop.

. If you bet, how much? And if you check, why?

dnt bet i want to trap him to thinking i am beat and hope he trys to steal the pot.

i have sneaky suspission he has  

[Harry Demetriou]

intrested in the dact you dont reckon the unkowns dont play back at the pros with marginal hands harry

i think that reraising with KJ KT JT are possibles as some players dont respect the pros raises

apart from that i agree with your post

Agree with you 100% Ironside but it goes to show how difficult any decision can be when you have little or no information about an opponent and how much easier it is when you do have something to go on. As its a WSOP event and I know little about my opponent I am giving him the benefit of the doubt and treating him as an OK player who knows something about the game and position and based on that and him being relatively tight early in a major tournament discounting him holding the weak type hands for rerasing me pre flop. Not an impossibility but extremely unlikely.

[AdamM]

Action preflop is fine. QQ can be a dangerous hand when reraised against so the flatcall hoping to hit a set is OK.

I am taking the reraiser for an ace so when he checks I bet my set here. 800 to go (slightly smaller than the pot)

pretty much that

hopfuly the check is AQ or 6,6. if it's AA, tough. if I'm raised, I three bet it all

[doubleup]

Hmmmm not sure why this hand is deemed worthy of discussion.  Pre flop is what I would do and the only issue is how do to get all the chips in after the flop.   

Betting half the pot seems like the way to go as we might get a call from KK hoping that we will check the turn and AA hoping that we will bet the turn......  We should get a cr from AK/Q although I would have thought that AK would c-bet.

If called a king on the turn wouldn't be the greatest card in the world, but I don't think I could fold given the stack sizes and the pot.  It would be quite a tough spot though with a 10k stack in a nl tournament.

[snoopy1239]

Action preflop is fine. QQ can be a dangerous hand when reraised against so the flatcall hoping to hit a set is OK.

I am taking the reraiser for an ace so when he checks I bet my set here. 800 to go (slightly smaller than the pot)

pretty much that

hopfuly the check is AQ or 6,6. if it's AA, tough. if I'm raised, I three bet it all

But how likely are the first two holdings going to be out of position pre-flop re-raises?

[boldie]

Action preflop is fine. QQ can be a dangerous hand when reraised against so the flatcall hoping to hit a set is OK.

I am taking the reraiser for an ace so when he checks I bet my set here. 800 to go (slightly smaller than the pot)

pretty much that

hopfuly the check is AQ or 6,6. if it's AA, tough. if I'm raised, I three bet it all

But how likely are the first two holdings going to be out of position pre-flop re-raises?

AQ unlikely unless he's a poor player..so is 66, however there are  hands other than AA he could reraise with from his position preflop..AK, KK and all that.
I can't see anyone getting away from this..If you're scared of AA every time you flop middle set you probably should pick another game. this is one of those hands that you simply have to go bust with if the chips go in on the flop.

[NoflopsHomer]

Sorry for the late reply to this. Here is the rest of the hand, (previous action in italics)

You pick up in early position and raise to 150. Folded round to the small blind who raises it 350 more. You decide to call, the Pot is 1,050.

Flop:



The small blind checks. You check behind.

Turn:



The small blind bets 250 into the 1,050 pot. You decide to call.

River:



The small blind now moves all-in for 1,450 into the 1,550 pot. You have 1,850 back. You....?

1. How do you play the turn? Furthermore, what do you think of Mr X's play of the hand so far? If you were to play the hand differently on 4th and 5th street, what would you do and why?

2. It might be a silly question, but do you call on the river?

3. For those that don't know, who do you think Mr X is?