Big Brother 8

[Acidmouse]

My 15 year old son is into rap music (heaven help me) and regularly plays his music loudly, all i hear is Nigger this, Nigger that etc etc  .... I must admit to being extremely embarrassed when i hear him singing along etc, and have told him so ... His reply is all the kids at school listen to it, black and white alike and they use the word "Nigger" as a sort of friendly greeting.

And it seems that the word "Nigger" has been reclaimed by the Black community much to their credit i think. He also told me how they have regular discussions in class regarding this issue, and to be honest, racism is dying as our children are growing up in a multi cultural environment, there will always be ignorance in the world, but hopefully tolerance and understanding will take over in the next generation.

Thats encouraging i must say...

Click to see full-size image.

[da_poker_monkey]

oh geez where do I start....I do not want to start an argument with anyone so please keep that in mind if I post something stupid.  In the past I have been surrounded by several black (can I say black?) youths that said we are looking for a white (can I say white?) person to smack.  To be honest, if I was green they would be looking for a green person, if I was fat they would be looking for a fat person etc...I just think that too much is made of this racism thing most of the time, a thug is a thug and does what a thug does.  If I was attacked in the street by two black people it would be an assault.  If a black person was attacked in the street by two white people then the whole of Nottinghamshire Police force would be scrambled to assist in the capture of the dangerous racists.  Don't get me wrong, if someone is attacked either verbally or physically and suffers in any way genuinely because of race or whatever (and yes I admit that this does happen alot) then it is completely unacceptable.  I just think that maybe some the abuse/situations we can face daily that are classed as racism aren't really racism at all.  Ok now you can rip me to shreds, disagree with everything I have said, call me whatever, i'm staying away from the forum for 5 mins so get it off ur chests.........

[Jon MW]

White people face rasism in this country all the time on several differnet levels, to say that your "not black how could you know what its like" is utter b%^&^%S

You can't really have racism without an imbalance in power. Where is the loss of power for whites in this country?

I don't understand the logic of this statement. Any prejudice is based on judging someone purely by one factor (race/gender/sexual orientation etc).

If someone makes an assumption based on the fact that somebody is white, it is just as racist as making an assumption based on the fact that somebody is black. Other factors aren't relevant.

[AndrewT]

White people face rasism in this country all the time on several differnet levels, to say that your "not black how could you know what its like" is utter b%^&^%S

You can't really have racism without an imbalance in power. Where is the loss of power for whites in this country?

I don't understand the logic of this statement. Any prejudice is based on judging someone purely by one factor (race/gender/sexual orientation etc).

If someone makes an assumption based on the fact that somebody is white, it is just as racist as making an assumption based on the fact that somebody is black. Other factors aren't relevant.

The power enables the prejudiced to act upon their prejudices. A lone white man who is racist against blacks would have zero influence in, say, Jamaica, because he has no power to turn his thoughts into the actual subjugation of blacks. In effect, it doesn't actually matter that he is racist - he can be ignored. Whereas a majority of whites who hold racist views against a minority of blacks are able, whether consciously or not, to subjugate the minority through their actions.

[booder]

flibbertygibbert

[MANTIS01]

Dishing out punishment because "offence" has been caused is a flaky way to govern people in my eyes.

Telling an over-sensitive colleague that you don't like her new hair-style could have a devastating impact on her confidence. No punishment. But a comment about race, even if no offence is caused, is deemed worthy of reprimand.

This train of thought will always lack consistency because causing offence is subjective....so how can you have objective guidelines?

If you cause offence but did not intend to do so who is to blame? Is it you for lacking tact or the other person for being too sensitive? Who knows?

The black footballer is called a monkey by his opponent....I understand the point that he may be suggesting black people are lower down the evolutionary ladder....BUT ALL PEOPLE ARE EQUAL. So why do we jump to attention to protect someone from laughable comments like this. I really don't accept that some people think other people are monkeys. If these people do exist then they are in need of our help not punishment. To punish the utterance of a word does not eradicate the problem, it just indicates that you shouldn't say those things out loud.

Many times I hear Americans called "fat", "stupid" and "rude". This is somehow deemed acceptable racism to the social pallet. It is more digestable because your target is white....so it's just a bit of fun. But to have a social ethos that allows Americans to be called fat hippos but is outraged when black people are called monkeys is actually a racist ethos through and through. You as a governing body are determining skin colour as a factor in your opinions. To not "see" colour and to not let colour sway your views either way is actually the utopia of racial equality.

Ignorance is sometimes going to cause offence. But to highlight ethic minorities as special cases in the offence stakes is to have an agenda based around skin colour...a very racist notion indeed.

[AdamM]

as with being tall and being a stupid cow, no one's ever been strung up for having a bad hair do

[AndrewT]

as with being tall and being a stupid cow, no one's ever been strung up for having a bad hair do

Precisely. People are killed because of the colour of their skin.

Skin colour is also something you have no choice over. Being fat, rude or ignorant is a choice.

[Jon MW]

...

You can't really have racism without an imbalance in power. ...

...

... it doesn't actually matter that he is racist - he can be ignored....

In the first instance you've stated that the you can't have racism without an imbalance in power but the second statement refers to such an imbalance of power being in place, and being racist.

These are two separate arguments;

to clarify do you think that racism not important if it can easily be ignored? (eg a black man being racist against whites in Britain)

or do you think that in this situation it is just  not possible to be racist (For Example if a Bangladeshi pupil holds racist views against whites in a predominantly white school they are not racist - but if they then get moved to a predominantly Bangladeshi school they suddenly become racist?)

You seem to link being racist or not to whether you can do anything with those views - but isn't it what is in peoples heads that is wrong with being racist, the views themselves - not how they can act upon them which is important?

[da_poker_monkey]

 

[The_nun]

My point of view is that no one will stop racism...it will always be there on a daily basis... Whites calling Blacks, Blacks calling whites, Asians Calling whites Whites calling Asians, Asians calling Blacks, so on and so on.. Then you can ask Tom how he was treated when he tried to semi settle., if i remember rightly the local shop keeper refused to serve him....It continues in all walks of life. BUT.. it is a minority and if you just carry on and treat everyone as you find them and ignore the remarks, hold your head up when attacked with any form of racist remark and think i will not sink to that level these people will become less, never gone always there but will eventually they become a minority.

[tantrum]

Dishing out punishment because "offence" has been caused is a flaky way to govern people in my eyes.

Telling an over-sensitive colleague that you don't like her new hair-style could have a devastating impact on her confidence. No punishment. But a comment about race, even if no offence is caused, is deemed worthy of reprimand.

This train of thought will always lack consistency because causing offence is subjective....so how can you have objective guidelines?

If you cause offence but did not intend to do so who is to blame? Is it you for lacking tact or the other person for being too sensitive? Who knows?

The black footballer is called a monkey by his opponent....I understand the point that he may be suggesting black people are lower down the evolutionary ladder....BUT ALL PEOPLE ARE EQUAL. So why do we jump to attention to protect someone from laughable comments like this. I really don't accept that some people think other people are monkeys. If these people do exist then they are in need of our help not punishment. To punish the utterance of a word does not eradicate the problem, it just indicates that you shouldn't say those things out loud.

Many times I hear Americans called "fat", "stupid" and "rude". This is somehow deemed acceptable racism to the social pallet. It is more digestable because your target is white....so it's just a bit of fun. But to have a social ethos that allows Americans to be called fat hippos but is outraged when black people are called monkeys is actually a racist ethos through and through. You as a governing body are determining skin colour as a factor in your opinions. To not "see" colour and to not let colour sway your views either way is actually the utopia of racial equality.

Ignorance is sometimes going to cause offence. But to highlight ethic minorities as special cases in the offence stakes is to have an agenda based around skin colour...a very racist notion indeed.

Mantism - please do read a defniniton of racism as it is in English language and more importantly the law which makes racist abuse/behaviour illegal.  Then come back and start your debate. 
No point of trying to tell you something if your knowledge on the subject is obviously limited.

[MANTIS01]

My thought process is not governed by the literal definition of a word.

Racial discrimination is connected to race...not colour, and racial abuse is no different than any other kind of abuse/bullying.

People are not strung up because they are black but because the perpetrator of the crime is an ignorant thug. Hitler decided to wage war against the Jews because he was a madman not because the Jews were Jewish.

All around the world different races struggle to co-exist. Just look at the endless problems in Israel as an example. To solve this problem we need to be tolerant of each other and celebrate our differences. This is constantly hampered by cries of "offence" around every corner because it breeds resentment and intolerance.

Britain needs to stop apologising for things that happened hundreds of years ago and move forward as the multi-cultural modern day country that it truely is.

[booder]

My thought process is not governed by the literal definition of a word.

 

[madasahatstand]

I had a meeting a few weeks ago with the woman who leads on equalities for the NHS in my area. I said that I didnt want to get into the 'nitty gritty' on a certain subject. she told me that I should not say this as it has racist connotations:( you could have knocked me down with a feather. this has been part of my vocab for as long as I can remeber and i never ever knew there were issues with the term??

I need to try and not use it again incase it offends anyone..............................................Would any of you have thought this was racist?