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Liverpool FC
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Topic: Liverpool FC (Read 1676105 times)
The Baron
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Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #375 on:
November 28, 2009, 04:04:19 PM »
Quote from: Murph1984 on November 28, 2009, 03:27:03 PM
Quote from: The Baron on November 27, 2009, 06:49:24 PM
Tomkins:
Rafael Benitez's record in Europe was often used as a stick with which to beat his Premiership performance. Now it's being used to say that his job should be on the line.
Of course, Liverpool have progressed massively as a European club under Benítez, after decades more-or-less in the wilderness. And last season, the club posted a Premiership record that would win the title on many occasions; however, sometimes someone is that little bit better, or luckier.
If you happened to play tennis when Pete Sampras was around, or golf when Tiger Woods was at his peak, you could be an eternal runner-up.
This is the bizarre life Benítez leads. Even his achievements (Istanbul 2005, or 86 points last season) are used to form criticism.
After 2005, people said that massive league improvement was the key to judging him a success: "It's easy to win a few cup games". Last season, we saw that improvement taken to a 20-year high, in terms of points. Then it was "Ah, but no trophy".
Few praised him for enabling his team to lose the lowest ever number of games by a team that failed to win the league; at a time when also managing the league's top scorers; so this was no defensive team.
As soon as the two game losing mark was reached this season, last season was suddenly ammunition to attack him with; which all contributed towards a negativity around the campaign. Liverpool were decreed failures for losing two games, and the attacks started, even though last season's achievements were unique. None of that helped.
He is not praised for buying Torres and helping him improve to stellar standards; he is told, quite laughably, that Torres will leave if things don't improve.
He was not praised for buying Alonso, getting some great performances from him (especially, it has to be noted, after the Barry saga), and bringing in £30m; he is told that he never understood or appreciated the midfielder.
Now Benítez is being criticised for ‘failure' in Europe. Which, to me, is a bit like suggesting selling prime-years Ian Rush for going a few games without a goal.
Please note: only four men have more victories in the European Cup/Champions League than Rafa Benítez.
It just so happens that three of the four are at rival Big Four Premiership clubs. That makes his domestic job harder.
Carlo Ancelotti is in 4th place, Ottmar Hitzfeld 3rd, Arsene Wenger 2nd and Alex Ferguson 1st.
Of course, the top two have played far more games in the competition than Benítez, having been at qualifying clubs for a greater number of years, as befits men that much older than the Spaniard.
In terms of percentage of games won (minimum 20 wins), the top manager in European Cup/Champions League history – at the start of this season – was Josef Heynckes, former Bayern Munich and Real Madrid boss, with 66.7%. (Heynckes is currently managing Sami Hyypia at Bayer Leverkusen, and topping the Bundesliga in the process.)
But the clear star from the stats is one Bob Paisley, in second place, with 65.9%, just ahead of Luis van Gaal and Matt Busby. It's probably fair to say that the old European Cup was tougher to win in several ways, although you still needed to win only 50% of your games each year to reach the final: win the home leg 2-0, lose the away leg 1-0, and job done.
However, there is another familiar name in the top 10: Rafael Benítez Maudes. The Liverpool manager has a 57% win rate. (Incidentally, a figure that exactly matches his Premiership record.)
Quite a way back are Ferguson in 17th place (52%) and Wenger in 27th (46%).
(This season, the figures have altered to 56% Benítez, 53% Ferguson and 48% Wenger, but I don't have the full rankings to hand, hence using figures up to June 2009. Stats courtesy of Graeme Riley, author of the annual "Football in Europe" Soccerdata books, and member of The Tomkins Times)
As a season, this has been a bit of a nightmare. But two cups are still up for grabs, and history shows that a place in the top four is usually secured by either Arsenal or Liverpool, no matter how far off the pace at the halfway stage. Teams not used to being there are more likely to 'choke', and Liverpool's luck can surely only improve.
So there's no need to panic, even if the injury crisis needs to abate for a realistic chance of getting back on track.
We've also a lot to see from Aquilani, but I'm not sure the pitch last night was suitable, and the need was to win the game, that was all.
At a time when people with no understanding or experience of management put the boot into Benítez, Arsene Wenger continues to point out that Liverpool haven't got the results they've deserved at times this season. He knows the score; he's been there before. He's showing some real class.
He knows how an injury crisis can affect a team – the loss of Van Persie saw them draw their first blank of the season – and how going to places like Sunderland is not a doddle, even without alien objects scoring goals. He knows the difficulties in taking on the über-rich clubs.
But it all comes back to expectation. Rafa raised them for us in Europe; now he is being hounded because of it. And last year, he raised them for us in the league, to the point where people don't even see a crippling injury crisis as an extenuating factor for being off the pace.
Perhaps people expect Liverpool to be the equivalent of Tiger Woods, as the Reds were in the halcyon days.
But right now, we're more like ‘prime years' Colin Montgomerie: currently in the rough during this tournament, but always there or thereabouts, without quite landing the major prize.
However, if Woods had picked up a serious injury, Montgomerie, with no change in his ability, would probably now be hailed as an all-time master.
Maybe last season Benítez was just a penalty decision in the Man United vs Spurs match away from seeing the Reds' main rivals from collapse.
We'll never know, but all Liverpool could do was get United wobbling on the ropes, as the 4-1 victory at Old Trafford had proved so successfully; a few games later, with United looking dazed and confused, the referee intervened, and the rest is history.
Liverpool fans didn't ask for a replay (or after Sunderland), but that goal did the damage France inflicted on Ireland. Alas, that's sport; it happens. But that decision did not make Benítez a worse manager, did it? United changed from iffy to in control from that moment on.
When all is said and done, I'd still rather be the equivalent of a ‘Monty' – ups and downs, but generally challenging at most events – than some average golfer that never featured on the big occasions.
Every single season, Benítez has had the club contesting a trophy into May - quite incredible, considering what we were used to in the 15 years beforehand. (Okay, in 2008 it was almost midnight on the very last day of April, after extra-time at Stamford Bridge, but please allow me this one tiny tweak of the calendar.)
If anyone hasn't yet read the incredibly insightful book “Soccernomics/Why England Lose”, they really should, for their own good. It backs up Christian Purslow's belief that clubs “should not make managerial and strategical decisions around results in the short-term”.
Add in an injury crisis that no manager could hope to work around, and it becomes even more apposite.
WALOFS
Who is this Tomkins fella? He sure talks a load of bollox.
I don't have all day but i'll take up the last line in particular because i'd love to hear the names that have been involved in this "injury crisis that no manager could hope to work around"
What players exactly have fallen foul during this injury crisis? LOL
Lol wind up merchant.
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Murph1984
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Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #376 on:
November 28, 2009, 04:14:40 PM »
Are you saying that article is a wind-up?
Or are you trying to claim that he isn't talking bollox in it?
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The Baron
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Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #377 on:
November 28, 2009, 04:31:08 PM »
Quote from: Murph1984 on November 28, 2009, 04:14:40 PM
Are you saying that article is a wind-up?
Or are you trying to claim that he isn't talking bollox in it?
Lol no, I'm saying I think you could be a wind up merchant.
I dont get how you can say he is talking bollocks, like you are more in the know, only to then ask which Liverpool players have been injured this season! LOL!!! (If you are actually being serious with your question - pretty much all of the first XI have been injured this season bar Reina)
You're either trying to wind up Liverpool fans on here or you haven't been watching Liverpool at all this season and are therefore accusing a respected reporter of talking bollocks when you yourself aren't exactly Mr Current Affairs.
Do you honesty believe Liverpool have not had an injury crisis?
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Murph1984
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Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #378 on:
November 28, 2009, 04:46:52 PM »
Quote from: The Baron on November 28, 2009, 04:31:08 PM
Quote from: Murph1984 on November 28, 2009, 04:14:40 PM
Are you saying that article is a wind-up?
Or are you trying to claim that he isn't talking bollox in it?
Lol no, I'm saying I think you could be a wind up merchant.
I dont get how you can say he is talking bollocks, like you are more in the know, only to then ask which Liverpool players have been injured this season! LOL!!! (If you are actually being serious with your question - pretty much all of the first XI have been injured this season bar Reina)
You're either trying to wind up Liverpool fans on here or you haven't been watching Liverpool at all this season and are therefore accusing a respected reporter of talking bollocks when you yourself aren't exactly Mr Current Affairs.
Do you honesty believe Liverpool have not had an injury crisis?
Liverpool have played 13 league games and 5 Champions League games,here are the appearances made(subs in brackets)
Reina 13(0) + 5(0)
Johnson 11(0) + 3(0)
Carragher 13(0) + 5(0)
Insua 12(0) + 5(0)
Skrtel 9(1) + 2(1)
Agger 4(0) + 3(0)
Mascherano 10(2) + 3(1)
Gerrard 9(1) + 4(0)
Lucas 13(0) + 5(0)
Benayoun 9(4) + 4(1)
Kuyt 13(0) + 5(0)
Torres 10(0) + 3(0)
Now that's your keeper,three from four of first choice defence(4/4 if you add Skrtel and Agger together),all of your midfield(less Gerrard) that have been involved in pretty much every single game
So Gerrard and Torres missing 3 games each = injury crisis? LOL
Quote
Please note: only four men have more victories in the European Cup/Champions League than Rafa Benítez.
It just so happens that three of the four are at rival Big Four Premiership clubs. That makes his domestic job harder.
Are these managers all in charge of Spurs,Villa,Sunderland,Fulham,City and Birmingham because those are sides you have lost points to.
Look at the list of the sides you have beat: this season: Stoke,Bolton,Burnley,West Ham,Hull,Debrecen x2 and United.
Really impressive list isn't it?
Add the fact that Debrecen managed to score more goals in the group games so fat than Liverpool did and it;s about time yourself and Tomkins took the rose-tinted glasses off and woke up to reality imo.
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The Baron
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Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #379 on:
November 28, 2009, 05:05:17 PM »
Quote from: Murph1984 on November 28, 2009, 04:46:52 PM
Quote from: The Baron on November 28, 2009, 04:31:08 PM
Quote from: Murph1984 on November 28, 2009, 04:14:40 PM
Are you saying that article is a wind-up?
Or are you trying to claim that he isn't talking bollox in it?
Lol no, I'm saying I think you could be a wind up merchant.
I dont get how you can say he is talking bollocks, like you are more in the know, only to then ask which Liverpool players have been injured this season! LOL!!! (If you are actually being serious with your question - pretty much all of the first XI have been injured this season bar Reina)
You're either trying to wind up Liverpool fans on here or you haven't been watching Liverpool at all this season and are therefore accusing a respected reporter of talking bollocks when you yourself aren't exactly Mr Current Affairs.
Do you honesty believe Liverpool have not had an injury crisis?
Liverpool have played 13 league games and 5 Champions League games,here are the appearances made(subs in brackets)
Reina 13(0) + 5(0)
Johnson 11(0) + 3(0)
Carragher 13(0) + 5(0)
Insua 12(0) + 5(0)
Skrtel 9(1) + 2(1)
Agger 4(0) + 3(0)
Mascherano 10(2) + 3(1)
Gerrard 9(1) + 4(0)
Lucas 13(0) + 5(0)
Benayoun 9(4) + 4(1)
Kuyt 13(0) + 5(0)
Torres 10(0) + 3(0)
Now that's your keeper,three from four of first choice defence(4/4 if you add Skrtel and Agger together),all of your midfield(less Gerrard) that have been involved in pretty much every single game
So Gerrard and Torres missing 3 games each = injury crisis? LOL
What is this meant to tell me? It more holes in it than swiss cheese.
Those stats could mean anything. (ie the only oufield players "fit" for every league game have been Carra, Kuyt and Lucas - even that is a fallacy as we know Carragher has been injured twice mid-game. The same 3 are the
only
3 fit for every CL game. Stats can go whichever way you wan them to.)
It doesn't take into account which players were injured at the same time as other key players. Which opposition we faced when players were injured. How important the games they missed were (ie away to Lyon in what is essentially a decider). You've also added Skrtel and Agger together (they cannot be injured at the same time then?) It doesn't take into account forcing early subsitutions or losing a player mid-game and being down to 10 or even 9 men. You've also left off Riera and Babel. It also doesn't show us who is playing when blatantly unfit. (ie Gerrard, Mascherano, Benayoun and Torres several tmes each this season) It doesn't mention the back four which hasn't been unchanged for longer than two games all season.
Let me put it another way. This season the following have been injured when they would have been picked.
Johnson
Agger
Skrtel
Aurelio
Mascherano
Babel
Riera
Carragher
Gerrard
Torres
Benayoun
Then take into account the likes of Krygiakos, Kelly, Ayala who have been thrown in at the deep end and still ended up injured when needed.
Now which other top side have had injuries concerns anywhere close to that?
Two weeks ago Rafa gave a press conference before a weekend ame to update reporters on 10 injuries. So it's not quite Gerrard and Torres for 3 games each is it.
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The Baron
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Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #380 on:
November 28, 2009, 05:11:15 PM »
Quote from: Murph1984 on November 28, 2009, 04:46:52 PM
Quote
Please note: only four men have more victories in the European Cup/Champions League than Rafa Benítez.
It just so happens that three of the four are at rival Big Four Premiership clubs. That makes his domestic job harder.
Are these managers all in charge of Spurs,Villa,Sunderland,Fulham,City and Birmingham because those are sides you have lost points to.
No. But they are the only sides in Rafa's time in charge who have finished above him over the course of a season. Sorry but I am not interested in arguments based on a small sample of games.
Look at the list of the sides you have beat: this season: Stoke,Bolton,Burnley,West Ham,Hull,Debrecen x2 and United.
Really impressive list isn't it?
Same as above. I really cant be bothered arguing against knee-jerk reactionsists.
Add the fact that Debrecen managed to score more goals in the group games so fat than Liverpool did and it;s about time yourself and Tomkins took the rose-tinted glasses off and woke up to reality imo.
His arguments are backed up by pretty solid research though, unlike yours.
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The Baron
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Posts: 9558
Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #381 on:
November 28, 2009, 05:16:08 PM »
Quote from: The Baron on November 28, 2009, 05:05:17 PM
Quote from: Murph1984 on November 28, 2009, 04:46:52 PM
Quote from: The Baron on November 28, 2009, 04:31:08 PM
Quote from: Murph1984 on November 28, 2009, 04:14:40 PM
Are you saying that article is a wind-up?
Or are you trying to claim that he isn't talking bollox in it?
Lol no, I'm saying I think you could be a wind up merchant.
I dont get how you can say he is talking bollocks, like you are more in the know, only to then ask which Liverpool players have been injured this season! LOL!!! (If you are actually being serious with your question - pretty much all of the first XI have been injured this season bar Reina)
You're either trying to wind up Liverpool fans on here or you haven't been watching Liverpool at all this season and are therefore accusing a respected reporter of talking bollocks when you yourself aren't exactly Mr Current Affairs.
Do you honesty believe Liverpool have not had an injury crisis?
Liverpool have played 13 league games and 5 Champions League games,here are the appearances made(subs in brackets)
Reina 13(0) + 5(0)
Johnson 11(0) + 3(0)
Carragher 13(0) + 5(0)
Insua 12(0) + 5(0)
Skrtel 9(1) + 2(1)
Agger 4(0) + 3(0)
Mascherano 10(2) + 3(1)
Gerrard 9(1) + 4(0)
Lucas 13(0) + 5(0)
Benayoun 9(4) + 4(1)
Kuyt 13(0) + 5(0)
Torres 10(0) + 3(0)
Now that's your keeper,three from four of first choice defence(4/4 if you add Skrtel and Agger together),all of your midfield(less Gerrard) that have been involved in pretty much every single game
So Gerrard and Torres missing 3 games each = injury crisis? LOL
What is this meant to tell me? It more holes in it than swiss cheese.
Those stats could mean anything. (ie the only oufield players "fit" for every league game have been Carra, Kuyt and Lucas - even that is a fallacy as we know Carragher has been injured twice mid-game. The same 3 are the
only
3 fit for every CL game. Stats can go whichever way you wan them to.)
It doesn't take into account which players were injured at the same time as other key players. Which opposition we faced when players were injured. How important the games they missed were (ie away to Lyon in what is essentially a decider). You've also added Skrtel and Agger together (they cannot be injured at the same time then?) It doesn't take into account forcing early subsitutions or losing a player mid-game and being down to 10 or even 9 men. You've also left off Riera and Babel. It also doesn't show us who is playing when blatantly unfit. (ie Gerrard, Mascherano, Benayoun and Torres several tmes each this season) It doesn't mention the back four which hasn't been unchanged for longer than two games all season.
Let me put it another way. This season the following have been injured when they would have been picked.
Johnson
Agger
Skrtel
Aurelio
Mascherano
Babel
Riera
Carragher
Gerrard
Torres
Benayoun
Then take into account the likes of Krygiakos, Kelly, Ayala who have been thrown in at the deep end and still ended up injured when needed.
Now which other top side have had injuries concerns anywhere close to that?
Two weeks ago Rafa gave a press conference before a weekend ame to update reporters on 10 injuries. So it's not quite Gerrard and Torres for 3 games each is it.
Just to add 8 of these have been injured more than once.
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Murph1984
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Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #382 on:
November 28, 2009, 05:16:19 PM »
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The Baron
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Posts: 9558
Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #383 on:
November 28, 2009, 05:18:49 PM »
Quote from: The Baron on November 28, 2009, 05:11:15 PM
Quote from: Murph1984 on November 28, 2009, 04:46:52 PM
Quote
Please note: only four men have more victories in the European Cup/Champions League than Rafa Benítez.
It just so happens that three of the four are at rival Big Four Premiership clubs. That makes his domestic job harder.
Are these managers all in charge of
Spurs,Villa,Sunderland,Fulham,City and Birmingham
because those are sides you have lost points to.
No. But they are the only sides in Rafa's time in charge who have finished above him over the course of a season. Sorry but I am not interested in arguments based on a small sample of games.
Look at the list of the sides you have beat: this season: Stoke,Bolton,Burnley,West Ham,Hull,Debrecen x2 and United.
Really impressive list isn't it?
Same as above. I really cant be bothered arguing against knee-jerk reactionsists.
Add the fact that Debrecen managed to score more goals in the group games so fat than Liverpool did and it;s about time yourself and Tomkins took the rose-tinted glasses off and woke up to reality imo.
His arguments are backed up by pretty solid research though, unlike yours.
Finally, 4 of the 6 teams you list above have more financial clout than us. Coincidence?
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kinboshi
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We go again.
Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #384 on:
November 29, 2009, 04:44:03 PM »
Muprh - you're simply trolling on here and not backing up your arguments with anything substantial.
Torres and Gerrard have both been injured pretty much all season. These are obviously two of our key players, as they would be for almost any side in Europe.
Johnson has been out injured, as has Benayoun. Agger has been missing for a lot of games, and has had back problems in addition to his two head injuries (during this time, Skrtel has had to play despite his poor form). Aurelio has only just got back into the side after injury. Riera has been out for quite a few weeks, and then got injured on his return game. Babel is injured (although that's probably a blessing).
However, I don't think you actually watch any Liverpool games - so it's probably a waste of time responding to your posts.
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'The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.'
kinboshi
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We go again.
Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #385 on:
November 29, 2009, 04:44:58 PM »
Quote from: Murph1984 on November 28, 2009, 05:16:19 PM
FYP
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'The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.'
Murph1984
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Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #386 on:
November 29, 2009, 08:44:56 PM »
I'm not trolling,I was bringing a much needed dose of reality to the thread.
I didn't realise this was a shrine type thread just for all Liverpool fans to read what this idiot Tomkins has to say and convince each other that everything is fine and they're just having bad luck this season with injuries and beach balls and so on.
I'll leave you boys to it,best of luck in your quest for 4th place and Europa League glory.
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The Baron
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Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #387 on:
November 29, 2009, 08:59:40 PM »
Quote from: Murph1984 on November 29, 2009, 08:44:56 PM
I'm not trolling,I was bringing a much needed dose of reality to the thread.
I didn't realise this was a shrine type thread just for all Liverpool fans to read what this idiot Tomkins has to say and convince each other that everything is fine and they're just having bad luck this season with injuries and beach balls and so on.
I'll leave you boys to it,best of luck in your quest for 4th place and Europa League glory.
Lol, late entry for comedy post of the year.
Your "reality" is largely unfounded and not backed up by any fact or even semi-decent stats. Yet Tomkins is the idiot? Ok....
Best of luck trolling on other threads.
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The Baron
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Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #388 on:
November 30, 2009, 09:31:31 PM »
Tomkins:
It wasn't the prettiest of displays, but it was up there with the grittiest.
Credit to Everton, who played well, but the Reds created the better chances (if you exclude clearly offside situations, when goals were only scored because of that illegal advantage).
Both Merseyside clubs have been experiencing a lot of injuries this term, and a difficult run of form as a result. And yet only one manager seemed to be under pressure.
David Moyes is granted all kinds of pardons for his own terrible injury problems (pardons he merits, incidentally), but Benítez is told to get on with it, such is the blatant hostility dished out by certain quarters of the media. Just compare and contrast the sympathy.
We have a situation where Charlie Nicholas says on TV that Liverpool have only had one injured player lately (Torres). I kid you not! If this is “opinion”, then I might as well say that Nicholas only has one finger, without bothering to check either of his hands for the remaining nine digits.
Nicholas is right, only if you ignore the scores of others Reds who've been crocked, and focus on the phoney notion that Liverpool only have two players anyway.
It's not just been the quantity of injuries, but the constant switching of the team because of them.
Nine different defenders had to be used in the first ten league games; Gerrard and Torres rarely paired together, and never fully fit; all of the wide midfielders out for a few games, at least; Aquilani injured for longer than had been expected (which also complicates putting him into the side).
I can almost get into double figures with those who have been either injured or struggling for match fitness in the past fortnight alone. (I'm even looking into horse placenta treatment for myself, in the hope that it cures baldness.)
Every fan wants to see Aquilani, and I'm no different. However, a boggy pitch in Hungary and a Mersey derby are not ideal introductions.
And with the Reds winning those two games, what's the problem? Now Benítez is being criticised for keeping an unchanged team.
Getting Aquilani match-fit is important, but victories right now are absolutely crucial. It's also fairer on the player to not be expected to produce the magic wand.
Let's also examine the tactical slaughtering Benítez took before the match.
There was this pearler from the ubiquitous Anon on the BBC, which was picked out for their score update page, but also sums up the kind of thing actual pundits were suggesting:
“I don't know what is wrong with Benitez, his team selection is mad. Leaving Benayoun and Riera on the bench is crazy and we have two left backs on the field - and we have a striker/winger that can't cross or score.”
This is the kind of lack of insight that shows how empty vessels make the most noise; and how the mass media are happy to facilitate them by adding a voluminous echo.
For starters, both Riera and Benayoun were recovering from recent hamstring problems. How can a fan not understand that? That's basic knowledge.
Next, Aurelio is no simple left-back shoved into midfield, but a cultured footballer with a great left foot. And Insua is an incredibly attack-minded full-back who came closest to adding a second for the Reds (from the the right-back's cross) before Kuyt duly obliged.
Yes, the great Anon is also suggesting that Kuyt can't cross (go and watch last season's DVD and see what rubbish that is) or score; yet has now got 20 goals in one-and-a-third seasons, without penalties. He'd not been at his best in recent weeks, after a bright start to the campaign, but was back on song at Goodison.
So much for a negative central midfield, too. Mascherano, with a shot out of the Frank Lampard playbook, scored (or “created”) the opening goal, and in the second half, Lucas was absolutely mowed down for a penalty as he got ahead of the strikers. (I'm losing count of the stone-wall penalties waved away this season.)
I'm not going to pretend that the duo are in the side for their attacking flair, but they do allow the full-backs more licence to get forward, with each player possessing a tactical maturity beyond their years, if not the full gamut of skills.
The team needs to be looked at as a whole, and that's the balance they provide. Both have been outstanding in the past month.
And let's face it, for the most part, scoring goals hasn't been the Reds' problem this season (or last), especially in the league. But with two long-overdue clean sheets, maybe that particular corner was the crucial one to turn.
And much of that improvement is down to the return of the Agger/Carragher partnership, with the former back to full fitness, and the latter back to his commanding best.
I really didn't understand Alan Hansen's logic when he recently said that Rafa hadn't bought any great players in the sub-£10m bracket. For me, Reina – whose outstanding double save secured the draw – and Agger, each around £6m, are world-class, before even getting onto bargains like Benayoun, Insua, et al.
Agger's return to the side has been crucial. He is the most underrated central defender around; but only underrated because injuries have curtailed his progress in the past couple of years.
Yet he's still only 24, and not yet quite in a central defender's prime years (usually 25-32, given that they mature later, due to the value of experience when reading the game).
When he's fit, he has it all.
Indeed, with Johnson and Insua so strong going forward, the inclusion of Agger in the side means yet more progressive movement from the back; which again adds context to why Mascherano and Lucas have played.
But often, the psychological side of a slump is the hardest thing to counter. Look at Manchester City, with their hugely expensive squad, including enough strikers for half the division. Their fear is that they will concede late goals and draw games they were winning.
With it playing on their mind, they concede late goals and draw games they were winning.
That's why a couple of victories on the spin, complete with clean sheets, is so important.
The upside of all of Liverpool's injuries is that it should mean extra freshness in the remaining two-thirds of the season – providing that everyone is over their existing problems and only a ‘normal' amount of niggles occur from now on.
It's also helped provide the emergence of David N'Gog as a rapidly improving understudy to Fernando Torres. It might not be the ideal way to blood the young Frenchman, but his progression has definitely been a bonus.
It might need a fully fit and sharp Gerrard, Torres, Aquilani and Benayoun – or even just three of that quartet – for the Reds to be at their exciting best, but the important aspect of this week has been winning games and keeping it tight at the back.
The corner isn't fully turned. But it's a start.
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The Baron
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Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #389 on:
November 30, 2009, 09:35:25 PM »
Rafa Benitez hailed the spirit among injury-troubled stars like Steven Gerrard following our 2-0 derby victory on Sunday.
Gerrard played a full 90 minutes once again despite a lack of training in recent weeks due to a groin problem.
Yossi Benayoun, Glen Johnson, Albert Riera, Daniel Agger and Fabio Aurelio also all featured following injuries.
Benitez said: "Gerrard has found it hard. He has played three difficult games in a row without training for three weeks prior, and that is tough.
"People have to understand that some players are trying very hard to help the team when they are not really fit. But they want to play, and their attitude is very positive.
"Now we have a week of training, and I hope we will see a lot more of them fitter for the next game."
The boss added: "There are several players who maybe should not be out there at the moment. They are not fully fit, they are not training and they have injuries.
"But we are working so hard together. We are seeing players involved when they should really be on the treatment table.
"But they all wanted to play, to do a job for the team and to work to get us going again as a team."
Fernando Torres failed to recover in time for the Goodison clash with a groin problem of his own - and Benitez is monitoring the striker's fitness ahead of next week's trip to Blackburn.
He added: "Fernando is close, but he still has some pain. We now have a week to work with him and for the physios to try to get him fit to play.
"We will monitor this every day and then decide. But we do not want to take any risks with him now, he needed three weeks of treatment and that is not fully completed yet.
"There is no deadline. We will have to decide after we have watched him working this week."
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