Liverpool FC

[Solaris]

Read an article earlier about Charlie Adam, and how good he is defensively as well as with his distribution and set-pieces.   I didn't realise he considers his best position to be centre-half!  The article (I'll try and find it again) was comparing to Pirlo, and saying that Liverpool have another Alonso now.

Behave. One good season in the PL and he's the new Alonso.

Amazing.

If I were you, I'd be seriously worried about your club's ambition. Downing, Adam and Henderson have zero experience at the highest level in club football and yet cost 46mill between the three.

Only Henderson could use the argument that he's one for the future, as the other two certainly aren't. They'd be expected to hit the ground running.

[kinboshi]

Citeh in for Aquilani?

 http://www.click-manchester.com/sport/manchester-city/1213707-manchester-city-target-liverpool-midfielder.html

[MANTIS01]

Read an article earlier about Charlie Adam, and how good he is defensively as well as with his distribution and set-pieces.   I didn't realise he considers his best position to be centre-half!  The article (I'll try and find it again) was comparing to Pirlo, and saying that Liverpool have another Alonso now.

Behave. One good season in the PL and he's the new Alonso.

Amazing.

If I were you, I'd be seriously worried about your club's ambition. Downing, Adam and Henderson have zero experience at the highest level in club football and yet cost 46mill between the three.

Only Henderson could use the argument that he's one for the future, as the other two certainly aren't. They'd be expected to hit the ground running.

Zero experience at the highest level in club football? They have all played multiple games in the English Premier League which is the best club football league in the world with the highest standard of club football in the world. The relevant stats for them which Liverpool require from new signings are some of the best within that best league in the world. They are all internationals on top of that and played european club football to boot. Sure, they haven't played Champions league but so what? Liverpool aren't in the CL. Tevez has played a handful of CL games and he costs the same as those three put together and he's a whinging bastard.

[Solaris]

Read an article earlier about Charlie Adam, and how good he is defensively as well as with his distribution and set-pieces.   I didn't realise he considers his best position to be centre-half!  The article (I'll try and find it again) was comparing to Pirlo, and saying that Liverpool have another Alonso now.

Behave. One good season in the PL and he's the new Alonso.

Amazing.

If I were you, I'd be seriously worried about your club's ambition. Downing, Adam and Henderson have zero experience at the highest level in club football and yet cost 46mill between the three.

Only Henderson could use the argument that he's one for the future, as the other two certainly aren't. They'd be expected to hit the ground running.

Zero experience at the highest level in club football? They have all played multiple games in the English Premier League which is the best club football league in the world with the highest standard of club football in the world. The relevant stats for them which Liverpool require from new signings are some of the best within that best league in the world. They are all internationals on top of that and played european club football to boot. Sure, they haven't played Champions league but so what? Liverpool aren't in the CL. Tevez has played a handful of CL games and he costs the same as those three put together and he's a whinging bastard.

I was referring to CL football. That's the pinnacle of club football and none of the three aforementioned have any experience at that level and still cost a combined 46mill.

Stats don't make good footballers. You can use stats to make anything look good should you wish too.

Surely the point is that if they haven't played CL football, they're not good enough for your club?

As for the bit about being internationals, do me a favour. Downing has 27 caps but is a bit part player at best, whilst Adam has 11 caps and Henderson has 1. Hardly experienced international footballers.

Edit: My mistake, Adam played a couple of Champs League games for the mighty Rangers.

[redarmi]

I find this argument a bit bizarre.  Since when do you have to have played CL football to be considered good enough to play for Liverpool or any other big club??  Should Alex Ferguson not have bothered to sign Tevez, Nani, Rooney, Sheringham and Valencia (off the top of my head) because they hadn't played in the CL?  Downing is a top class player who has done it at the top level year in year out since he was 19.  Adam pretty much singlehandedly turned Blackpool from Championship no hopers to a Prem team who held their own for a while.  Henderson I honestly haven't seen enough of to comment but his stats were very good last year.

[Solaris]

I find this argument a bit bizarre.  Since when do you have to have played CL football to be considered good enough to play for Liverpool or any other big club??  Should Alex Ferguson not have bothered to sign Tevez, Nani, Rooney, Sheringham and Valencia (off the top of my head) because they hadn't played in the CL?  Downing is a top class player who has done it at the top level year in year out since he was 19.  Adam pretty much singlehandedly turned Blackpool from Championship no hopers to a Prem team who held their own for a while.  Henderson I honestly haven't seen enough of to comment but his stats were very good last year.

The difference was, the players that surrounded those individuals you named were good enough for CL football so it was easy for Fergie to integrate them.

Your squad was an utter failure last season and rather than signing genuine established top class footballers, you've signed a bunch of average British footballers who aren't good enough to win you things.

The Commoli effect has well and truly begun.

Downing is not a top class footballer, don't be ridiculous.

[redarmi]

Not my squad...Im not a Liverpool fan and have no real bias here at all. 

JJandellis - am I correct in thinking you are a Blackpool fan??  If so am genuinely interested in what you think did turn them around?  I keep ratings on players and teams for my  betting and have rarely seen a player make such a difference to a team as Adam did in terms of the numbers.  If someone that watches the team thinks differently I would like to know why so i can make adjustments going forward.

[MANTIS01]

Read an article earlier about Charlie Adam, and how good he is defensively as well as with his distribution and set-pieces.   I didn't realise he considers his best position to be centre-half!  The article (I'll try and find it again) was comparing to Pirlo, and saying that Liverpool have another Alonso now.

Behave. One good season in the PL and he's the new Alonso.

Amazing.

If I were you, I'd be seriously worried about your club's ambition. Downing, Adam and Henderson have zero experience at the highest level in club football and yet cost 46mill between the three.

Only Henderson could use the argument that he's one for the future, as the other two certainly aren't. They'd be expected to hit the ground running.

Zero experience at the highest level in club football? They have all played multiple games in the English Premier League which is the best club football league in the world with the highest standard of club football in the world. The relevant stats for them which Liverpool require from new signings are some of the best within that best league in the world. They are all internationals on top of that and played european club football to boot. Sure, they haven't played Champions league but so what? Liverpool aren't in the CL. Tevez has played a handful of CL games and he costs the same as those three put together and he's a whinging bastard.

I was referring to CL football. That's the pinnacle of club football and none of the three aforementioned have any experience at that level and still cost a combined 46mill.

Stats don't make good footballers. You can use stats to make anything look good should you wish too.

Surely the point is that if they haven't played CL football, they're not good enough for your club?

As for the bit about being internationals, do me a favour. Downing has 27 caps but is a bit part player at best, whilst Adam has 11 caps and Henderson has 1. Hardly experienced international footballers.

Edit: My mistake, Adam played a couple of Champs League games for the mighty Rangers.

Ref the mighty Rangers comment. If CL involvement is the pinnacle and the way you judge player's value why does it matter what club side you play for within that comp? That's right, it's because CL isn't the pinnacle to judge value and performance, it's the strength of the side you play for and what league which is the be all and end all. The CL pinnacle thing is just a way players justify wanting to feck off to citeh for mo money.

[boldie]

Downing is not a top class footballer, don't be ridiculous.

QFMFT

[redarmi]

If someone can come up with a reasonable metric to measure this I would be very happy to have a friendly wager with either of you guys that he is a success at Liverpool.

[kinboshi]

There are plenty of average players who have CL experience.  Djimi Traore has a winner's medal!

[boldie]

If someone can come up with a reasonable metric to measure this I would be very happy to have a friendly wager with either of you guys that he is a success at Liverpool.

He has to win them the Champions league in his first season. If he fails to do that then scoring 5 goals against both Chelsea and Man U will do.

I offer you even money.


(Seriously though, I'd never bet on something like that and would be happy to be proved wrong. I just can't see him being a success at Liverpool...still holding down his place in 2-3 seasons time etc.)

[kinboshi]

I find this argument a bit bizarre.  Since when do you have to have played CL football to be considered good enough to play for Liverpool or any other big club??  Should Alex Ferguson not have bothered to sign Tevez, Nani, Rooney, Sheringham and Valencia (off the top of my head) because they hadn't played in the CL?  Downing is a top class player who has done it at the top level year in year out since he was 19.  Adam pretty much singlehandedly turned Blackpool from Championship no hopers to a Prem team who held their own for a while.  Henderson I honestly haven't seen enough of to comment but his stats were very good last year.

Downing is not a top class footballer, don't be ridiculous.

I have to agree with this, although he did have some v good spells last season. Good crosser, but just cannot go past a man. Find him really frustrating - and most certainly not top class. That said, will be interesting to see what he can stick on Carrolls bonce...

Sorry, what are we defining as a 'top class footballer'?  Just before we decide he isn't, can we agree on what we're deciding on?

[MANTIS01]

Who is or isn't a top class individual footballer isn't all that important is it? Dalglish is building a team so he's looking at combinations across the pitch. What matters is whether Downing works in tandem with Carroll not whether he's rated as a world class stand alone player. It's fair to say Kenny is pinning a lot of hopes on Andy Carroll and if Andy Carroll is a big success there's a good chance Kenny & Liverpool will be a big success. If Carroll flops at £35m it's bad news for all concerned. Thus Kenny must look at the best player to supply what Carroll needs.

Downing is a proven prem league player and has some of the best delivery stats in the league. I would say Nani is a more skillful individual player than Downing but if you put him in the Liverpool side he wouldn't work. All those step overs and drag backs would leave caveman Carroll all confused and befuddled. He needs a guy to ping it in early and accurately and that guy is Downing. Liverpool and Kenny need Carroll to be successful and Carroll needs someone like Downing to be successful. All this talk of who's the best individual makes this thread sound like a Man City board meeting.

[redarmi]

. He needs a guy to ping it in early and accurately and that guy is Downing..

Great post.  Downings ability to put in that early cross that defenders find so difficult to deal with is pretty much unparrelled in the premier league and having Carroll on the end of it has the potential to be a very good combination.