Liverpool FC

[kinboshi]

Obv not well known enough, but a fact that he's made groundless accusations in the past yes. Probably twice. Possibly three times.

I guess this is 4th time lucky. But I'm sure you Utd fans know all this...

Probably twice?
Possibly thrice?
Fourth time lucky?

Evra may well have had previous incidents where no offence was proven, but Suarez didn't deny this one, lucky eh?

Punishment is harsh IMO but you do yourself no favours by focussing your anger on  Evra's probable/possible history.

What price a similar length ban for JT?

Correction. Suarez refuted the allegation he made racist comments towards Evra.

So he said he said it, then he said he said it but didn't mean it to be offensive, then he said he didn't say it?


I believe he's been harshly treated here and an appeal against the sentence is reasonable. I just don't think LFC have done themselves any favours in the way they've handled it. Up to and including yesterday's statement.

No, he has never said he didn't utter the word 'negrito'.  He's simply saying that it's not a racist slur.  I could call someone a *****, but it wouldn't mean I was being racist.

[The Baron]

Obv not well known enough, but a fact that he's made groundless accusations in the past yes. Probably twice. Possibly three times.

I guess this is 4th time lucky. But I'm sure you Utd fans know all this...

Probably twice?
Possibly thrice?
Fourth time lucky?

Evra may well have had previous incidents where no offence was proven, but Suarez didn't deny this one, lucky eh?

Punishment is harsh IMO but you do yourself no favours by focussing your anger on  Evra's probable/possible history.

What price a similar length ban for JT?

Not proven because according to the FA panel they didn't happen. Amazing how you guys dodge that bit. It is the FA panel who called Evra's past evidence of racial accusation exaggerated and unrelaible. Take it up with them.

FWIW if Suarez did it then throw the book at him.

[The Baron]

this thread turns normally rational people into ..................... well something else

You ask for proof from before this season. I provide the opinion of an FA tribunal of Evra's unreliability. Now I'm irrational? Ummm ok.

Happy to post more opinions from independents about Evra's bullshitting if it helps show him for the liar he is but somehow I doubt it will.

from before this season if he reknowned for it please

i dont read newspapers for the very reason I couldnt care less about opinion, especially commenting on a current topic

provide me with fact based evidence and ill listen to what you have to say

Provide me with proof Suarez is racist. Pretty pointless argument eh? Independent panel calls Evra's past evidence exaggerated and unreliable. Good enough for me.

[kinboshi]

Both the FA and Evra both said that Suarez isn't racist (from what I've read).

[kinboshi]

This was an article written last week.  Gives more background:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/8957294/Luis-Suarez-racism-hearing-reputations-at-stake-as-panel-attempt-to-unravel-most-complicated-of-cases.html

They must rule on linguistic issues, cultural differences, body language while ensuring that the subtleties of the story are not lost amid FA politicking.
The charge facing Suárez is that he “used abusive and/or insulting words and/or behaviour” towards Manchester United’s Patrice Evra at Anfield on Oct 15. It is “alleged that this included a reference to the ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race of Patrice Evra”, the FA adds.

Evra, who is adamant he was racially abused 10 times, has the backing of his manager Sir Alex Ferguson and his club.
Suárez, who will admit using the word “negro” once, will argue that it is a descriptive expression, and not deemed offensive in his native Uruguay, and that it is similar to Dirk Kuyt getting called “blondie” by the South American players at Anfield.

Suárez categorically denies the racism charges and enjoys the total support of his manager, Kenny Dalglish, and Liverpool’s owners, John W Henry and Tom Werner.
The Americans will submit testimony supporting their player while Dalglish will attend the hearing in person. Liverpool are also expected to use evidence from a linguistic expert.

In defending Suárez, Liverpool are expected to mention the incident between Evra and Chelsea’s groundstaff in 2008 which culminated in an FA hearing which concluded that “we find Mr Evra’s account exaggerated and unreliable”.

This is a case of deep detail between two well-known footballers and a broad picture of a governing body engaged in a long-running feud with Fifa president Sepp Blatter. The three men on the panel must guard against letting the FA’s desire to be seen to be strong on racism, so highlighting one of Blatter’s many weak points, clouding their judgment. Reputations are at stake.

The experienced three-man panel, which gathered on Wednesday afternoon, is chaired by Paul Goulding QC, who comes from the same Blackstones chambers as Adam Lewis, the barrister employed by the FA in Wayne Rooney’s successful Uefa appeal last week.
Goulding, a qualified FA coach, appeared for Jean Tigana in his successful claim following his sacking as Fulham manager and has advised Premier League clubs and players in the past.

Also involved is Brian Jones, the chairman of Sheffield and Hallamshire FA who wrote to all his county members on June 20, stressing the need to fight discrimination.

The third member is Denis Smith, well respected within the game following his time as a defender at Stoke City and managing clubs such as Sunderland and Oxford United.
Two representatives from the FA secretariat are present but Goulding, Jones and Smith will rule on Suárez, possibly on Friday.

The allegations centre around the second half of the 1-1 draw at Anfield. Events started in the 57th minute when Suárez fouled Evra, tempers really flaring at an ensuing Liverpool corner. Amid some pushing and shoving, Evra demanded to know from Suárez why he had kicked him. Suárez replied that things happen in games and to move on.

It is here that Evra claims Suárez first became racially abusive; the Frenchman was subsequently quoted on the French station Canal Plus, saying that “there are cameras, you can see him [Suárez] say a certain word to me at least 10 times’’. Suárez categorically denies using that word, negro, in the goalmouth.

Watching events from the press box, it was pretty clear that Evra was incensed yet the players around seemed unaware of any dispute. The testimony of those closest, United’s David de Gea and Liverpool’s Dirk Kuyt, will play a part.
There is an expectancy that it will be confirmed to the panel that nothing offensive was heard in the goalmouth.

Shortly after the corner, referee Andre Marriner called the pair together for a lecture. Suárez apologised and attempted to pat the United full-back on the head. “Don’t touch me, you South American,’’ Evra is alleged to have said. To which, the Uruguayan replied: “Porque, Negro?’’
Suárez’s defence rests on the argument that such expressions are commonplace in South America. It is considered offensive, according to Suárez’s defence, only when used with a pejorative adjective or when the tone is aggressive. Footage of Suárez’s body language will be scrutinised by the panel.

This will inevitably form part of Liverpool’s case, that when Suárez did use the word “negro” he was not in aggressive mood, more apologetic towards Evra.
Yet Suárez must prove he was unaware of the sensitivity towards the word “negro” in England. The former Ajax player will also have to explain why, having lived for three years in Holland, he had still to grasp northern European intolerance to such a word.

Despite Marriner’s intervention, Evra remained furious. When he caught Kuyt two minutes later, Evra responded to Marriner’s caution by allegedly claiming: “You’re only booking me because I’m black.’’

Suárez is bemused by the case. “I called him something his team-mates at Manchester call him, and even they were surprised by his reaction,’’ Suárez claimed in the immediate aftermath of the incident.
Much will depend on whether Liverpool can convince the panel that Suárez does not have racist tendencies.

They are expected to point out that Suárez made a video in South African townships during the 2010 World Cup called “From the Streets to the Fields”. He hails football’s “tremendous power of joining people, without any skin, religion and social discrimination”.

Liverpool’s work in combating racism is sure to be mentioned. As is their owners’. Henry has been instrumental in celebrating the life of Jackie Robinson, the legendary black baseballer, at the Boston Red Sox which he owns.

In focusing on increasing diversity at Fenway Park and funding school scholarships for those from disadvantaged parts of Boston, Henry told National Public Radio in October that “we have to make a statement not just in baseball but in our community that diversity is an issue that hasn’t been fully addressed in the past and certainly has to be fully addressed.

"I think it’s important what your actions are. That will really define the franchise going forward’’.

Liverpool’s reputation would be damaged if Suáarez were found guilty of such a heinous offence.

That is why the panel must stay clear-eyed, ignoring FA tensions with Blatter over racism. Goulding, Jones and Smith must focus on one man’s word against another, and whether to accept cultural differences.

[The Baron]

Both the FA and Evra both said that Suarez isn't racist (from what I've read).

Same here. From this the only thing I can come up with then is that he has admitted to making a reference to Evra's skin colour. (Which IMO is not acceptable - ie why would he need to?)

Who was the player who was banned for 3 games after admitting making a racist comment?

[kinboshi]

Both the FA and Evra both said that Suarez isn't racist (from what I've read).

Same here. From this the only thing I can come up with then is that he has admitted to making a reference to Evra's skin colour. (Which IMO is not acceptable - ie why would he need to?)

Who was the player who was banned for 3 games after admitting making a racist comment?

Agreed, he didn't need to mention his colour (the same way Evra didn't need to mention Suarez's South American-ism.  But Evra's claim is that he uttered the word 10 times, and that it will be on cameras (as there are loads round the pitch) - not the one time in front of the referee. 

The charge is detailed here:

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/Disciplinary/NewsAndFeatures/2011/luis-suarez-20-12-11

He's clearly stupid, but deserved of an 8-match ban and being labelled as a racist from here on?

[The Baron]

When he caught Kuyt two minutes later, Evra responded to Marriner’s caution by allegedly claiming: “You’re only booking me because I’m black.’’


What a twat. Sums him up perfectly.

[The Baron]

feel free to post any non-liverpool proof of your claim from before this season

Feel free to read what the enquiry made of these accusations. The French FA found racial accusations groundless too a while back.

Feel free to defend what you obviously haven't read up on.

you said it was a well known fact, which infers he has done it for a while......................

.................... err he has.

[George2Loose]

Baron u are clearly biased. Character assanation of evra is just making u look silly.

[outragous76]

feel free to post any non-liverpool proof of your claim from before this season

Feel free to read what the enquiry made of these accusations. The French FA found racial accusations groundless too a while back.

Feel free to defend what you obviously haven't read up on.

you said it was a well known fact, which infers he has done it for a while......................

.................... err he has.

like ive said several times post some pre 2011 fact based evidence and ill listen to what you have to say.

You are clearly passionate and I think on the whole a solid football poster, but you are embarrasing yourself on this matter

[Solaris]

The saddest bit about this incident is seemingly intelligent people are intent on defending an individual who has been found guilty by an independent panel.

I'm still unsure as to exactly why Liverpool fans have this ridiculous victim mentality.

[Solaris]

When he caught Kuyt two minutes later, Evra responded to Marriner’s caution by allegedly claiming: “You’re only booking me because I’m black.’’


What a twat. Sums him up perfectly.

Note the bit "allegedly" which means that there's a good possibility that the incident above didn't actually occur at all.

Still, don't let that stop you from making your wild assumptions.

[The Baron]

The saddest bit about this incident is seemingly intelligent people are intent on defending an individual who has been found guilty by an independent panel.

I'm still unsure as to exactly why Liverpool fans have this ridiculous victim mentality.

You have me wrong here. I'm looking forward to the FA's report and if he did it, as I said before, throw the book at him. Even mentioning Evra's colour would be wrong imo.

There are understandably a lot of Liverpool fans not happy with a decision based on Evra's word alone (according to our club statement) considering he's made accusations of racism 3 times in his past, all of which were thrown out and once he was personally singled out by a panel as basically being a liar. Not exactly a stellar witness.

Regardless of what happens to Suarez let's not kid ourselves that Evra has used the racism card willy nilly in the past because quite simply, he has. That is your acuser, whether Suarez is racist or not.

[The Baron]

Baron u are clearly biased. Character assanation of evra is just making u look silly.

I have no problem with you thinking I'm biased as I am.

But the FA's description of Evra's reliability when he gave evidence before? A lot of you guys seem to be dodging that one...