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Liverpool FC
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Topic: Liverpool FC (Read 1670258 times)
Peter Costa
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Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #5235 on:
February 14, 2012, 09:13:32 AM »
I did plan on addressing a few more issues in the last post but got tired. OK,lets see about one or two things raised by other posters. I think Suarez was vilified within the first couple of months in the PL. Perhaps not so much for his past, as that was simply used to enhance arguments on his manner of play, i.e going down easy, being animated etc. In fact, he was classed as a cheat and diver very early on. The thing is, we have seen in the last two weeks much better examples of players going down without contact and getting awarded penalties. If it was Suarez involved in any of those, we would never hear the last of it. The point is, this is sadly becoming more obvious in our game and must somehow be stopped. I think players really need to take responsibility for that, they should not have to be guided by rules.
Concerning how LFC handled the situation, I can only agree that they handled it badly. However, it was more out of naivety than anything else. I actually believe they made more mistakes than some have mentioned but, this was as new to LFC as it was to all of us. Imagine, what do you do when you believe that a person has been wrongly charged and convicted? You support that person by making it clear that you do not accept the verdict. And so we are clear, that belief was cemented before the hearing. When the report was released, all it did was further that belief. Suddenly, LFC were faced with what amounted to an injustice in their eyes. Fighting any form of injustice is not easy, especially as in this case as any appeal was not an option. Also, you have the entire media accepting the report as gospel. Perhaps if their agenda also included unbiased reporting, the press would be seen in a different light. As it is, they are simply paresites looking to feed on our game at every opportunity. So who's next in line for their abuse?
We then had a variety of other people wanting to attract attention and to use this case to further their cause or interests. Look at the actions of Mr Powar for example. Did he actually believe that supporting Suarez amounted to damaging the fight against racism? It was simply a fight against injustice at how the verdict was reached and nothing more. And yet, he kept making remarks about racism. Mr Powar should not be looking to follow the lead of the FA and looking for examples, he should be looking to fight racism because racism s also an injustice. It does his cause no good if a person is found guilty on probability. Still, he continues along the same lines. In fact, he came out with a statement yesterday applauding the apology statements. What do these have to do with him? What right has he to even go down this road? This is not about racism, it's a about a handshake between two players that never took place. Their creed or color has no bearing on the matter and certainly has nothing to do with his cause.
The handshake. So many mistakes here. First of all, it should not exists before a game. Secondly, it should have been scrapped for this game on the "probability" that something could go wrong. I was stunned that they were asked to do this. Did Evra really want to shake hands with Suarez? Did Suarez really want to shake hands with Evra? If they did, then after the game is the time for them to do it. Again, LFC, the FA or any other party should not have used this as a form of glossing things over. Irrespective, it was clear that both players had intentions of shaking hands. However, I gather there were a couple incidents prior to players taking the pitch that may have caused doubt in the minds of both players.
Looking at the video of the handshake, it seemed that neither was keen. Perhaps both feared that the other would pull out? Whatever the reason why the handshake did not take place, Evra had no right to grab Suarez's arm in that manner. Was it so important for Evra that he was upset by it? If so, why? Did it give credibility to the verdict? I don't know why they didn't shake and frankly, do not care. Neither should been placed in that situation. That goes if Evra was truly racially abused or if Suarez was truly innocent. Perhaps for this reason alone, we do not need verdicts based on probability.
What disappoints me is that Suarez indicated to LFC that he was going to shake hands. However, neither player should have been placed in that situation. We must all accept that certain players will have issues with other players, irrespective of creed, color etc. More importantly, there are bound to be issues in the future and pre-match handshakes are a trouble spot. As for the role of the media in this match, I can't think of a word that does justice to how vile theri approached was to this game. Their agenda was clear and very much out of line. It is also for this reason that the FA should have reacted to the initial trash from the media. This begs the question why? Did the FA loath at some of the reporting? Did the FA secretly enjoy it? Were they embarrased by it? However the felt, their lack of response shows a serious flaw in the people running our game. They created an issue by using probability as a set guideline to the verdict and yet were unaware of what it would probably lead to?
Evra's antics at the end were way over the top. The fact that Suarez did react seemed to go unnoticed. Either way, this was more likely to cause a riot than the lack of a handshake as suggested by Alex Ferguson. For him to come out and make a statement that Suarez should not play for LFC, is the candidate for hypocrite of the year. I won't go into detail as there is no need. That statement alone was way way out of line. In my wildest dreams, I could never have imagined a manager being so thoughtless with a comment.
The FA made a statement yesterday that no further actions would follow over the incidents at the match. Make of this what you will. We have had people dealt with in the past for far less. I understand why they chose not do anything. After all, why prolong this mess? Why fuel what has become a saga of shame for those involved. In effect, the FA are using common sense on this. If they really cared about our game above everything else, why not apply common sense at every opportunity? Did they do so in the Suarez /Evra case? We all have our views on this. However, since it was clear from the outset that a verdict could only arise from "probability" and not from clear facts, could they have not handled this in a different manner? I can think of a few, but would take too long. Perhasp another time.
As for Suarez's past actions - much more mature players have made bigger mistakes on a football pitch. Suarez is still a young man and has much growing and learning still to do.
Somethings followed after the "verdict" that Suarez may wish to add to the list of mistakes. Overall though, I feel sorry for the young man as I would for any human being caught up in a set of circumstance that no person should experience. I therefore see the comments about him as exaggerated to the point of hysteria. Is Suarez really that bad? Does he dive more than others, is he a cheat and a racist? As a footballer, did he even kick anyone in his one year in the PL? I obviously saw the Parker incident but if I need to touch on that subject other than to say it was 100% accidental, then I may as well not bother with posting on any football forums.
Perhaps my views stem from the fact that I am not the judgemental type. In fact, not once, in countless posts on football forums, have commented on "faults", "mistakes" or "issues" of any player from any team. I can't say I know these people well enough for me to do that. I can't even imagine the pressures they go through. Who knows what they are like and how their personal lives are?
On the other side of the coin, I have loved watching so many players from different teams because I love football and not just my club. When I first saw Giggs live, I thought he was the most graceful player I had ever seen. Denis Bergamp, what a joy this guy was. The list is long and includes players from many teams and many nations. How abbout Drogba, was there ever a better one-man striker than this guy? Yes he dived, far too much in the past but should we have sent him packing? He got wiser as he got older.
Anyway, I know that we all make mistakes and the best we can hope for is to learn from them and become a better person. Suarez has much to learn, but who doesn't at that age, or any age for that matter.
As for the future, I'm not sure if Suarez should leave this country. Part of me feels he should go. Not because I feel his actions deserve being driven from the UK but, because it's cruel for anyone to go through such circumstances. Another part of me however, feels this would be accepting defeat to circumstance. Either way, only he knows the best option. If he does go because of recent events, then I can't blame him. If he stays, I hope he overcomes this and is given a fair crack of the whip. I can perhaps see fans turning around if he shows more maturity, however, I very much doubt if the media would be keen to let it go.
In the US, they have freedom of speech. And yet, the media does not abuse that freedom in the same manner as the British media. In saying that, last year we had the Casey Anthony murder trial in which the media crucified Casey as if guilt was the only possible outcome. I never missed a minute of that trial and waited to hear the cast iron evidence of her guilt. As the days passed however, I was convinced that a guilty verdict was impossible if based on the evidence. Not comparing the the two cases here but focusing on the role of the media and how personal agendas seemed to rule every comment. Perhaps I'm getting cynical in my old age but, I think one needs to read between the lines if one is going to bother reading anything at all.
Anyway, sorry to blabber but I love this game as my daughter did once. To have seen her driven away is not something I want to see happen to others.
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kinboshi
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Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #5236 on:
February 14, 2012, 09:18:49 AM »
Post more please.
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Acidmouse
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Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #5237 on:
February 14, 2012, 12:03:25 PM »
Not sure I agree that we should feel sorry for Suarez, he's an adult and on a number of occasions he has failed to act in a manner befitting an adult with any brains. Every time there has been a situation where he could have reduced the tensions, or negative feelings towards himself he has stocked the flames and made it impossible for neutrals to accept he is a stand up person.
I agree he is in a difficult situation now, but its 100% his own fault...You cant change the past but at least showing that you are learning from past mistakes would help.
Deceiving to the club and making them look like twats will be his ultimate downfall not because he made racist comments.
In any other job I can think off he would have been instantly sacked.
«
Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 12:05:44 PM by Acidmouse
»
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kinboshi
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Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #5238 on:
February 14, 2012, 12:21:54 PM »
100% his own fault, except for the input from Evra, The FA, the media and Alex Ferguson.
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david3103
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Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #5239 on:
February 14, 2012, 02:02:48 PM »
Quote from: kinboshi on February 14, 2012, 12:21:54 PM
100% his own fault, except for the input from Evra, The FA, the media and Alex Ferguson.
I was trying not to post about this here, but seriously, Kin, you seem to be an educated sort of guy and to have a pretty rational view on life generally. But this? Seriously?
Suarez used a word that caused offence. No ifs, no buts, it was used and he admitted it. (spurious arguments about how often and what it might mean in another country don't change this)
Surely someone at LFC explained to him that the word was offensive and, given that
he's not a racist
, he should have just apologised and maybe we could all have moved on.
Liverpool FC knew he had used the word, and that it was offensive, and yet they persisted in proclaiming Suarez to be an innocent victim of a slur campaign.
Even after the hearings, and after the decision, LFC have persisted in playing the victim card. 'Nobody likes us, we don't care' stuff. 'Shouldn't have been away' said Kenny. 'Subjective decision' was another expression used in one of the statements.
Contrast with the silence on the issue from Old Trafford right up to the debacle of the handshake that never was.
100% Suarez own fault, except for the lack of input from his Manager, his representatives, and his club.
Evra should be censured for his celebrations at the end of the game on Saturday for sure. SAF has already criticised him publicly for that, not often he goes public with such stuff so you can get an idea of the level of concern about it. Should the FA act? I can't see much point tbh, if they do then they have to go into all the pre-match and halftime stuff and setting aside the history that seems to have been 6=2*3.
But let's not pretend that the Suarez issue was caused or worsened by anyone outside of Liverpool FC.
btw - had it been say, Ricardo Fuller, or Micah Richards that made the initial complaint, or Anton Ferdinand, do you think the LFC response might have been different?
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Karabiner
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Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #5240 on:
February 14, 2012, 02:17:47 PM »
I don't see any difference between JT calling someone a black c**t and Suarez saying it in Spanish.
The Spanish word "negro" is not any more or any less common than the English word "black".
It's simply unacceptable behaviour to use either word as a racist remark.
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kinboshi
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Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #5241 on:
February 14, 2012, 02:28:21 PM »
I was talking about the handshake that he's being vilified for, not the racist comment that he received an 8-match ban for and is now done with.
He could have shaken Evra's hand, but he chose not to. I think he was wrong to do that, but it was his choice. He obviously dislikes Evra for whatever reason. But why all this outpouring of shock and disgust because someone wouldn't shake someone's hand? Is he contractually obliged to? Is it morally offensive to not shake someone's hand before a football match?
The reactions from this weekend weren't in response to the 115-page report (that many on here obviously haven't read, but feel compelled to comment on - it's here if you want to read it:
http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/Disciplinary/NewsAndFeatures/2011/~/media/Files/PDF/TheFA/Disciplinary/Written%20reasons/FA%20v%20Suarez%20Written%20Reasons%20of%20Regulatory%20Commission.ashx
), but to the 'handshake' incident.
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TheChipPrince
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Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #5242 on:
February 14, 2012, 02:32:29 PM »
Quote from: kinboshi on February 14, 2012, 02:28:21 PM
I was talking about the handshake that he's being vilified for, not the racist comment that he received an 8-match ban for and is now done with.
He could have shaken Evra's hand, but he chose not to. I think he was wrong to do that, but it was his choice. He obviously dislikes Evra for whatever reason. But why all this outpouring of shock and disgust because someone wouldn't shake someone's hand?
Is he contractually obliged to?
Is it morally offensive to not shake someone's hand before a football match?
The reactions from this weekend weren't in response to the 115-page report (that many on here obviously haven't read, but feel compelled to comment on - it's here if you want to read it:
http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/Disciplinary/NewsAndFeatures/2011/~/media/Files/PDF/TheFA/Disciplinary/Written%20reasons/FA%20v%20Suarez%20Written%20Reasons%20of%20Regulatory%20Commission.ashx
), but to the 'handshake' incident.
Its not to far from that when he tells the club he is going to though is it but then doesn't making them look like plonkers?
«
Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 02:34:40 PM by TheChipPrince
»
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Acidmouse
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Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #5243 on:
February 14, 2012, 02:34:06 PM »
Don't care if he shook the hand or not the telling factor was he told Liverpool he would and didn't. What signals does it send out when he refused to shake the hand of someone he racially abused? He crossed Kenny and made him look a chump.
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david3103
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Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #5244 on:
February 14, 2012, 02:36:26 PM »
Quote from: david3103 on February 14, 2012, 02:02:48 PM
Quote from: kinboshi on February 14, 2012, 12:21:54 PM
100% his own fault, except for the input from Evra, The FA, the media and Alex Ferguson.
100% Suarez own fault, except for the lack of input from his Manager, his representatives, and his club.
FMP
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kinboshi
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Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #5245 on:
February 14, 2012, 02:44:15 PM »
Quote from: TheChipPrince on February 14, 2012, 02:32:29 PM
Quote from: kinboshi on February 14, 2012, 02:28:21 PM
I was talking about the handshake that he's being vilified for, not the racist comment that he received an 8-match ban for and is now done with.
He could have shaken Evra's hand, but he chose not to. I think he was wrong to do that, but it was his choice. He obviously dislikes Evra for whatever reason. But why all this outpouring of shock and disgust because someone wouldn't shake someone's hand?
Is he contractually obliged to?
Is it morally offensive to not shake someone's hand before a football match?
The reactions from this weekend weren't in response to the 115-page report (that many on here obviously haven't read, but feel compelled to comment on - it's here if you want to read it:
http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/Disciplinary/NewsAndFeatures/2011/~/media/Files/PDF/TheFA/Disciplinary/Written%20reasons/FA%20v%20Suarez%20Written%20Reasons%20of%20Regulatory%20Commission.ashx
), but to the 'handshake' incident.
Its not to far from that when he tells the club he is going to though is it but then doesn't making them look like plonkers?
I thought this summed it up perfectly:
“If you don’t like someone, don’t shake their hand.”
Gary Neville
Doesn't mean we agree with him refusing to shake Evra's hand as the right thing or not, and yes it might make the club look daft. Not sure that it deserves the indignation and horror that has been focused on the incident. I'm sure the club will discipline him for perpetuating the whole affair and playing into the hands of the media.
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Karabiner
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Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #5246 on:
February 14, 2012, 02:54:55 PM »
Quote from: kinboshi on February 14, 2012, 02:28:21 PM
I was talking about the handshake that he's being vilified for, not the racist comment that he received an 8-match ban for and is now done with.
He could have shaken Evra's hand, but he chose not to. I think he was wrong to do that, but it was his choice. He obviously dislikes Evra for whatever reason. But why all this outpouring of shock and disgust because someone wouldn't shake someone's hand? Is he contractually obliged to? Is it morally offensive to not shake someone's hand before a football match?
The reactions from this weekend weren't in response to the 115-page report (that many on here obviously haven't read, but feel compelled to comment on - it's here if you want to read it:
http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/Disciplinary/NewsAndFeatures/2011/~/media/Files/PDF/TheFA/Disciplinary/Written%20reasons/FA%20v%20Suarez%20Written%20Reasons%20of%20Regulatory%20Commission.ashx
), but to the 'handshake' incident.
I agree with you about the handshake in principle but to refuse it having given his word to Kenny et al is just plain low.
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kinboshi
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Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #5247 on:
February 14, 2012, 03:10:12 PM »
Quote from: Karabiner on February 14, 2012, 02:54:55 PM
Quote from: kinboshi on February 14, 2012, 02:28:21 PM
I was talking about the handshake that he's being vilified for, not the racist comment that he received an 8-match ban for and is now done with.
He could have shaken Evra's hand, but he chose not to. I think he was wrong to do that, but it was his choice. He obviously dislikes Evra for whatever reason. But why all this outpouring of shock and disgust because someone wouldn't shake someone's hand? Is he contractually obliged to? Is it morally offensive to not shake someone's hand before a football match?
The reactions from this weekend weren't in response to the 115-page report (that many on here obviously haven't read, but feel compelled to comment on - it's here if you want to read it:
http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/Disciplinary/NewsAndFeatures/2011/~/media/Files/PDF/TheFA/Disciplinary/Written%20reasons/FA%20v%20Suarez%20Written%20Reasons%20of%20Regulatory%20Commission.ashx
), but to the 'handshake' incident.
I agree with you about the handshake in principle but to refuse it having given his word to Kenny et al is just plain low.
Yes, I agree. I think the club will deal with him appropriately, and I'm sure Kenny is fuming at him. Not sure why Ferguson needs to make his statement that Liverpool should never play him again, or George Galloway calling for him to be deported, etc.
I think Suarez was stupid and childish. You'd think he shot Evra from the amount of air-time and column inches the media have devoted to the 'incident'.
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MANTIS01
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What kind of fuckery is this?
Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #5248 on:
February 14, 2012, 03:37:42 PM »
What about when Suarez petulantly drilled the ball low and hard into the crowd when the half time whistle blew at Old Trafford? Was that the fault of the FA or the media? If Peter Costa was on the front row and his daughter copped that cannonball straight in the kisser I’m sure he would have a different view of poor victim Suarez. He's a villain. Boooooo.
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George2Loose
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Re: Liverpool FC
«
Reply #5249 on:
February 14, 2012, 04:15:18 PM »
Unbelievable scenes once again
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