Vegas & The Aftermath - Diary

[byronkincaid]

Unconscious competence

[Geo the Sarge]

hands free kits, smands free kits, its not the holding of the phone, its the concentration you put into a conversion that takes your focus of something which to do safely requires a lot of concentration...

Is that just personal opinion?  It's not what the research says.  It's the fact that you have to look at the phone to interact with it (and therefore take your eyes off the road) that's dangerous.  Of course, picking up a ringing mobile to answer the call and say that you're driving isn't in itself that dangerous (imo) as you don't have to look at the phone to do this.  But I don't think we're limiting the use of a mobile phone to just this in the 'debate' are we?

On this premise, sat nav is also unsafe..........ban both IMO

Geo

[kinboshi]

hands free kits, smands free kits, its not the holding of the phone, its the concentration you put into a conversion that takes your focus of something which to do safely requires a lot of concentration...

Is that just personal opinion?  It's not what the research says.  It's the fact that you have to look at the phone to interact with it (and therefore take your eyes off the road) that's dangerous.  Of course, picking up a ringing mobile to answer the call and say that you're driving isn't in itself that dangerous (imo) as you don't have to look at the phone to do this.  But I don't think we're limiting the use of a mobile phone to just this in the 'debate' are we?

On this premise, sat nav is also unsafe..........ban both IMO

Geo

People pressing the buttons on their sat nav to go through the menus whilst moving is dangerous imo.  Same goes for someone ejecting a CD and changing it whilst moving is also dangerous.

If you have to take your eyes off the road to press buttons whilst looking on a screen, then it does increase your risk of having an accident.

[kinboshi]

Doesn't look good. 

Probably won't help me stating the obvious but why no hands free kit or sat nav? 

Hands-free kit (Moby summons) - new 'phone, Chilli's fault.

Sat-Nav (Running the Red Light) - I have a Sat-Nav. I did not have the Postcode of the address, or know the exact address.

All so avoidable, in hindsight.

Using a mobile without a proper hands-free kit is more dangerous than exceeding the speed limit - imo of course.  You only have one free hand for the wheel, you have to look at the phone to dial or receive a call, and please don't tell me you were sending a text...

Also, what's so important that you had to use the phone whilst driving? 

 

Debate required.

Driving whilst using a phone is not as dangerous as speeding imo.

It all depends on how well your brain can cope with doing more than one thing at once. Some people obviously can't but I know that I can cope well and so can most.

Given the choice which would you prefer:-

Step out 10m in front of a car doing 30mph where the driver is using a mobile

Step out 10m in front of a car doing 50mph where the driver is not using a mobile?

I can't see how being handsfree can affect how quickly your foot hits the brake. You are either concentrating or you're not.

Exceeding the speed limit is NOT dangerous.  Excessive speed is. 

Driving at 50mph in a 50mph zone whilst it's pouring down with rain could be dangerous.  You're not speeding, but your speed might be excessive.  Add a driver using a mobile phone without a handsfree kit into the same situation, and you've got a potential accident waiting to happen.

So is exessive speed more dangerous than using a mobile at a safe speed? 

I'd say both are dangerous.

In your pouring down with rain scenario why does the phone have to be the final straw that turns this in to a potential accident?

It doesn't, and that was my point.  If someone does 80mph on a clear dry motorway, it's deemed as dangerous because it's 'speeding'.  If someone does 50mph in a 50mph zone it's deemed as safe - even if the conditions mean that 50mph might be too fast.  The reason I added the using a phone into the equation is that people think that's not dangerous either.  They are often the same people who tell me that doing 80 or 90mph on a clear dry motorway is dangerous but fail to consider that their actions are often more dangerous.

Why not say that a driver doing 30mph while on his phone in a 50mph limit could be dangerous. You're not speeding and despite the conditions your speed is not excessive. Add 20mph to your speed and you've got a potential accident waiting to happen.

Doing 30mph whilst on a phone in a 50mph zone is dangerous. 

I don't ever make a call or answer my phone when I'm driving if I haven't got a hands-free kit.  If I have to scroll through menus and look at a phone to make a call, I'll wait until I'm stationary.  I called you the other week when I was in my car.  I found your number in the phone when I was stopped, and then spoke to you when I was driving. 

I have broken the speed limit (on occasion and of course I'll never do it again ), so I know I'm not an angel.  But I try not to put my life or the life of others at risk when I drive.  For me, using the keypad on a phone does put me and others at risk.

[Moskvich]

I nearly had an accident a while back while on the phone, and realised afterwards that my attention was almost entirely taken up by the conversation - I couldn't remember anything about my driving in the previous couple of minutes. I've never had that problem while driving with a passenger.

This is probably not caused by being on the phone. It's just because driving is such a mundane task that you don't take notes of what you're doing. It was only because of the near miss that you stopped to think about it and decided that it may have been the phone that was the cause.

Can you remember anything about your drive to work this morning? I'd guess not much unless there was a specific incident that doesn't normally happen.

It's the same as locking your door in the morning when you go to work. It's just something you do but don't always know that you've actually done.

If I was to ask you if you'd locked your door this morning you would say "yes of course". If I was to say that your life depended on getting the answer correct but gave you a probably option I'm pretty sure you'd take the probably.

You know that you locked your door this morning because you always do but if you think back can you actually remember stepping out of the door and turning the key. Are you sure it's not yesterday you're remembering?

It's the same with driving. We do it so much that we do it without realising.

Yeah, I knew someone was going to say that lol. But the accident would have been entirely my fault, ploughing into the back of someone else - not something I make a habit of doing generally. There was no unconscious competence going on, only incompetent unconsciousness.

I think it's a bit pointless to try and argue that it isn't more dangerous to drive while on the 'phone than to drive while not on the 'phone. Of course it is, it must be. If you're talking away to someone while playing poker, can you play to the same standard as if you only playing poker? I shouldn't think so.

Obviously whether something is dangerous or not is entirely subjective - I'd personally agree that driving well at 80mph limits the danger of 'speeding' to an acceptable risk and should in theory be allowed. Driving badly at 70mph, or 50mph in the rain or whatever, I would agree, is dangerous. But you can't legislate against people simply 'driving badly', so instead you have to have rules which, when followed, limit the overall risk of people driving to what you consider an acceptable level.

As such, it's not a system that's ever going to make perfect sense. But that certainly doesn't mean, just because your driving at 80mph in the dry is safer than someone else's driving at 50 in the wet, that the law should be changed to allow you to drive faster. All other things being equal, faster is necessarily more dangerous, as is talking on the 'phone while driving.

[EvilPie]

Ban for Tikay then.

Unlucky mate.

[EvilPie]

Only joking.

If you get banned for this traffic light jumping thing I'll be shocked. If as you say you only have 3 points at the moment you should just get another 3 and a nice big fine for not showing up 7 months earlier.

All you need to do is say that you didn't receive any notification so you didn't realise that you had done anything wrong. You knew that a while ago you had slightly crossed a red light and thought that you may get a fine but nothing came so thought that you must've stopped in time.

When you received this latest notification you knew immediately what it referred to so do not intend to deny it or try to get away with it despite it being past it's sell by date.

You see how clever this is? You just tell the truth because it's an honest mistake. Don't try to be clever and get away with it. Just own up and say that you didn't receive a letter or if you did it must have got misplaced before you had read it.

Just be honest. That's your best chance.

[Karabiner]

Just use old age as mitigation.

[EvilPie]

Just use old age as mitigation.

Whatever you do don't tell them your age.

Forget the ban. They'll just take your license straight off you anyway.

[tikay]

I have been advised, by someone very internet-savvy, that it was most unwise to Post a picture of my car, as I did in the "Ran a Red-Light" Post. Such pictures can be used for all manner of dodgy things, apparently. So I've removed it.

I'll reply to the Posts of advice & comments soonest (thank you), am a bit pulled out today, I'm up in Blackpool.

[tikay]

Managed to get in the Blackpool £150 last night - 236 runners! I got in at the end of Level One, (25-50, 45 mins, 6k starting points) at which time 17 players had exited!

Played well early, got nicely ahead of the count, but then I ran a big bluff, fired every street, & got Called, which put me down amongst the dead-men. I clung for hours, just surviving with well-timed shoves & a bit of luck, (I 2x'd up with 6-7 v A-K) &, short-stacked, decided to shove on the very last hand of the day, at about 5am, with K-9, (about my 30th shove....) & got looked up by Jacks.  Tonight's £300 is the getting-out stakes.

I was stunned by the size of last night's field. What a wonderful sight, a cardroom heaving with poker players. Lots of old school faces - Ali Mallu, Lord Wernick, Woodley, Albert C Station, etc.

Sadly, the whole night was marred by a drunken tosser, who inflicted his loud & boorish behaviour upon the whole CardRoom. And I got the short straw, sat next to him for 8 hours. He broke every rule in the poker book, & although Managament were clearly aware of his disruptive & offensive behaviour, his frequent swearing at Dealers, his dwelling for 2 minutes every hand because his other brain cell was working out how to drink even more alcohol without spitting it all over his table-companions when he "spoke" to us, he was not even warned. Not once.

I've become wholly intolerant to these people. You cannot converse with them, but you have to listen to them. They delay every hand. They stink of alcohol, & slobber all over you. They talk nonsense, but demand answers. 

They are nice as pie when sober. I honestly think they don't realise what utter cocks they make of themselves when they drink too much. I was guilty of it as a youngster, but because I realised how offensive drunkennness is, how invasive it can be towards others personal space, I gave up. And now, in my dotage, I have just become intolerant of it, & I don't know the answer, because it's happening more & more, & nobody seems fussed. I guess it's me that's out of step, but I have no plans to get used to it.

AAarrrgggghh.

There, that's better.

[DAN DAN]

I was guilty of it as a youngster, but because I realised how offensive drunkennness is, how invasive it can be towards others personal space, I gave up. And now, in my dotage, I have just become intolerant of it, & I don't know the answer, because it's happening more & more, & nobody seems fussed. I guess it's me that's out of step, but I have no plans to get used to it.

AAarrrgggghh.

There, that's better.

That's weird because this very morning I was driving to work and remembering my last visit to Edinburgh at the Scottish Championships.  I wasn't playing, just watching and I was remembering conversations I was having with people after consuming a lot of alcohol, one person being Liam Flood.  I cringed as I thought how stupid I must have sounded and I decided there and then that if I am ever at a poker tournament again I will not be drinking and I may extend that to any socialising I do.  Ultimately I think I am much better company sober.  Probably so are most people.

[Claw75]

Ultimately I think I am much better company sober.  Probably so are most people.

Kinboshi isn't

[redsimon]

Managed to get in the Blackpool £150 last night - 236 runners! I got in at the end of Level One, (25-50, 45 mins, 6k starting points) at which time 17 players had exited!

Played well early, got nicely ahead of the count, but then I ran a big bluff, fired every street, & got Called, which put me down amongst the dead-men. I clung for hours, just surviving with well-timed shoves & a bit of luck, (I 2x'd up with 6-7 v A-K) &, short-stacked, decided to shove on the very last hand of the day, at about 5am, with K-9, (about my 30th shove....) & got looked up by Jacks.  Tonight's £300 is the getting-out stakes.

I was stunned by the size of last night's field. What a wonderful sight, a cardroom heaving with poker players. Lots of old school faces - Ali Mallu, Lord Wernick, Woodley, Albert C Station, etc.

Sadly, the whole night was marred by a drunken tosser, who inflicted his loud & boorish behaviour upon the whole CardRoom. And I got the short straw, sat next to him for 8 hours. He broke every rule in the poker book, & although Managament were clearly aware of his disruptive & offensive behaviour, his frequent swearing at Dealers, his dwelling for 2 minutes every hand because his other brain cell was working out how to drink even more alcohol without spitting it all over his table-companions when he "spoke" to us, he was not even warned. Not once.

I've become wholly intolerant to these people. You cannot converse with them, but you have to listen to them. They delay every hand. They stink of alcohol, & slobber all over you. They talk nonsense, but demand answers. 

They are nice as pie when sober. I honestly think they don't realise what utter cocks they make of themselves when they drink too much. I was guilty of it as a youngster, but because I realised how offensive drunkennness is, how invasive it can be towards others personal space, I gave up. And now, in my dotage, I have just become intolerant of it, & I don't know the answer, because it's happening more & more, & nobody seems fussed. I guess it's me that's out of step, but I have no plans to get used to it.

AAarrrgggghh.

There, that's better.

Why didn't you complain?

[kinboshi]

Ultimately I think I am much better company sober.  Probably so are most people.

Kinboshi isn't

Good point.