Vegas & The Aftermath - Diary

[Dingdell]

I had a right good mate at the Club who I used to play 4 or 5 frames with every single night. We played a cross between billiards & snooker, it was all about laying & extracting oneself in & out of exquisite snookers. Easy pots were not to be taken, they resulted in huffy tuts, the idea was NOT to pot easy stuff, but play ultra ultra defensive, & frames could exceed 90 minutes on occasions.

We split the cost of the table, paid for each others drinks & food & were great mates. We never met outside of snooker, but we were as close friends as it's possible to be.

He came in one day with a face as long as a seaside donkey. Trouble at home, he needed money desperately, he could not pay a Court Fine, & was faced with 28 days inside, the wife was going apeshit, the kids were all in tears, da de da. Could I help? How much? - £200. Of course.

I never used to carry that sort of cash in those days, I said I'd go to the Bank the next day.

The 'phone rang at 9am the next morning. "You got that money yet Tony?" he asked. "No, the banks not open yet" I replied. He was stressed out, it had to be paid by Noon, can we meet at the Bank? Yeah yeah.

I get the money, he's waiting outside. He's droolingly grateful, "anything I can do to return the favour, just say, anything".

"Just pay me back as soon as you can. I won't mention it ever (it's embarrassing so to do, yes?), glad to have been able to help".

The weeks & months passed, we still met & played 4 or 5 frames every night. No sign of the cash. It's starting to niggle now, a year on. And he's feeding the slots every night. Hmm.

Time moves on, no money, so eventually, & with some awkwardness, I raise the matter. He goes off on one, big time, "what sort of mate are you?".

Eh?

We fall out, & never speak again. Every time we see each other it's awkward, we avert eyes, there's that atmo.

£200 was no big deal to me, & that never troubled me overly. Having my leg lifted did.

Amazingly, I never learned my lesson, & I've fallen for the same stunt time & time again.

I wonder where you draw the line betwen "kind" & "a soft touch", & do people prey on this?

Grimmers should be named and shamed, pillaried and then shot imo. Personal hate here for anyone who grims and then has the front to go on as if nothing has happened. They are just utter scum. Bad enough being dishonest but to a mate as well? Hate them.   

 

[tikay]

I had a right good mate at the Club who I used to play 4 or 5 frames with every single night. We played a cross between billiards & snooker, it was all about laying & extracting oneself in & out of exquisite snookers. Easy pots were not to be taken, they resulted in huffy tuts, the idea was NOT to pot easy stuff, but play ultra ultra defensive, & frames could exceed 90 minutes on occasions.

We split the cost of the table, paid for each others drinks & food & were great mates. We never met outside of snooker, but we were as close friends as it's possible to be.

He came in one day with a face as long as a seaside donkey. Trouble at home, he needed money desperately, he could not pay a Court Fine, & was faced with 28 days inside, the wife was going apeshit, the kids were all in tears, da de da. Could I help? How much? - £200. Of course.

I never used to carry that sort of cash in those days, I said I'd go to the Bank the next day.

The 'phone rang at 9am the next morning. "You got that money yet Tony?" he asked. "No, the banks not open yet" I replied. He was stressed out, it had to be paid by Noon, can we meet at the Bank? Yeah yeah.

I get the money, he's waiting outside. He's droolingly grateful, "anything I can do to return the favour, just say, anything".

"Just pay me back as soon as you can. I won't mention it ever (it's embarrassing so to do, yes?), glad to have been able to help".

The weeks & months passed, we still met & played 4 or 5 frames every night. No sign of the cash. It's starting to niggle now, a year on. And he's feeding the slots every night. Hmm.

Time moves on, no money, so eventually, & with some awkwardness, I raise the matter. He goes off on one, big time, "what sort of mate are you?".

Eh?

We fall out, & never speak again. Every time we see each other it's awkward, we avert eyes, there's that atmo.

£200 was no big deal to me, & that never troubled me overly. Having my leg lifted did.

Amazingly, I never learned my lesson, & I've fallen for the same stunt time & time again.

I wonder where you draw the line betwen "kind" & "a soft touch", & do people prey on this?

Grimmers should be named and shamed, pillaried and then shot imo. Personal hate here for anyone who grims and then has the front to go on as if nothing has happened. They are just utter scum. Bad enough being dishonest but to a mate as well? Hate them.   

 

I never forgive, that's for sure. Dunno about "hate", "pity" may be more like.

The daft thing is I bet it's happened to me 20 or more times.

The shutters have come down now. Unless they ask nicely.

[tikay]

Aide memoir.

Dan Simons

TDCFS

Books

Frankie Fraser

BH

Cash.J

[Karabiner]

Aide memoir.

Dan Simons

TDCFS

Books

Frankie Fraser

BH

Cash.J

Frankie Fraser the blagger ?

[tikay]

Aide memoir.

Dan Simons

TDCFS

Books

Frankie Fraser

BH

Cash.J

Frankie Fraser the blagger ?

None other.

Your paths ever cross? I have one of THE most readable books by him, a sort of guide to the British underworld in the 50's & 60's. IIRC, Frankie's "Manor" was Kings Cross. Which was an upper-class leafy residential area then.

[Tonji]

Cash.J?

The Man in Black?

[Cottonbud]

I never forgive, that's for sure. Dunno about "hate", "pity" may be more like.

The daft thing is I bet it's happened to me 20 or more times.

The shutters have come down now. Unless they ask nicely.

As you already know Tikay I can definately relate to this and your story (which was a fantastic read by the way), I used to have a close friend from football he got transferred to a different club but instead of paying me back he avoided me for like a year. We have never been good friends since I asked him for it back a few times which is embarassing like you said, but he would always say he would pay me back but never bother. Heard a story recently that he got beat up in a subway something to do with owing people money for drugs, glad we are not friends anymore to be honest seems like people never change and just get worse. I never lend anyone money anymore espesh after the poker grimmings I've taken.

[tikay]

I never forgive, that's for sure. Dunno about "hate", "pity" may be more like.

The daft thing is I bet it's happened to me 20 or more times.

The shutters have come down now. Unless they ask nicely.

As you already know Tikay I can definately relate to this and your story (which was a fantastic read by the way), I used to have a close friend from football he got transferred to a different club but instead of paying me back he avoided me for like a year. We have never been good friends since I asked him for it back a few times which is embarassing like you said, but he would always say he would pay me back but never bother. Heard a story recently that he got beat up in a subway something to do with owing people money for drugs, glad we are not friends anymore to be honest seems like people never change and just get worse. I never lend anyone money anymore espesh after the poker grimmings I've taken.

Yes, I'm glad that one got sorted.

Never again? Good man, that will serve you well down the years, James.

It's not all bad. I would still do it for the right people, but "right people" is a very select few.

I loaned someone some cash recently, they were in a very tight corner. They made a very detailed resume of how it would be repaid, & over what period, even on what days. I badly wanted to help, but I also thought "oh God, please don't let this one go bad", as the friendship meant (means) a great deal to me. I never doubted it would be OK, but I never do! To be fair, I ALWAYS "believe" it's well-intended. I think my judgement is bad. Or I'm a soft touch.

Anyway, the strangest thing happened. The instalments arrived EVERY week, & ALWAYS one day early, & ALWAYS for £100 more than was due that week. And the whole debt was cleared 2 weeks early. The bonus was that the cash was paid direct into my Bank every week, so it was almost like I had an extra income stream.

It just depresses me that it's cost me so many friendships, but as everyone says, the "friendships" turned out to be worthless. To give balance, I DO have quite a number of people whom I'd trust completely. By "quite a number", I mean at least one.

[EvilPie]

I never forgive, that's for sure. Dunno about "hate", "pity" may be more like.

The daft thing is I bet it's happened to me 20 or more times.

The shutters have come down now. Unless they ask nicely.

As you already know Tikay I can definately relate to this and your story (which was a fantastic read by the way), I used to have a close friend from football he got transferred to a different club but instead of paying me back he avoided me for like a year. We have never been good friends since I asked him for it back a few times which is embarassing like you said, but he would always say he would pay me back but never bother. Heard a story recently that he got beat up in a subway something to do with owing people money for drugs, glad we are not friends anymore to be honest seems like people never change and just get worse. I never lend anyone money anymore espesh after the poker grimmings I've taken.

Yes, I'm glad that one got sorted.

Never again? Good man, that will serve you well down the years, James.

It's not all bad. I would still do it for the right people, but "right people" is a very select few.

I loaned someone some cash recently, they were in a very tight corner. They made a very detailed resume of how it would be repaid, & over what period, even on what days. I badly wanted to help, but I also thought "oh God, please don't let this one go bad", as the friendship meant (means) a great deal to me. I never doubted it would be OK, but I never do! To be fair, I ALWAYS "believe" it's well-intended. I think my judgement is bad. Or I'm a soft touch.

Anyway, the strangest thing happened. The instalments arrived EVERY week, & ALWAYS one day early, & ALWAYS for £100 more than was due that week. And the whole debt was cleared 2 weeks early. The bonus was that the cash was paid direct into my Bank every week, so it was almost like I had an extra income stream.

It just depresses me that it's cost me so many friendships, but as everyone says, the "friendships" turned out to be worthless. To give balance, I DO have quite a number of people whom I'd trust completely. By "quite a number", I mean at least one.

Nice set up for the long con.

I wonder how much they'll need next time?

[tikay]

I never forgive, that's for sure. Dunno about "hate", "pity" may be more like.

The daft thing is I bet it's happened to me 20 or more times.

The shutters have come down now. Unless they ask nicely.

As you already know Tikay I can definately relate to this and your story (which was a fantastic read by the way), I used to have a close friend from football he got transferred to a different club but instead of paying me back he avoided me for like a year. We have never been good friends since I asked him for it back a few times which is embarassing like you said, but he would always say he would pay me back but never bother. Heard a story recently that he got beat up in a subway something to do with owing people money for drugs, glad we are not friends anymore to be honest seems like people never change and just get worse. I never lend anyone money anymore espesh after the poker grimmings I've taken.

If I may ask - & I do NOT want names - you have not been around long - hpw many peeps have turned you over?

Excuse my fascination with the subject, but it seems to have got a lot worse in the last year or two. I actually have a weird theory that some folks are born without a shame gene. "Honour" used to be so important, now it's almost disappeared.

[Karabiner]

Aide memoir.

Dan Simons

TDCFS

Books

Frankie Fraser

BH

Cash.J

Frankie Fraser the blagger ?

None other.

Your paths ever cross? I have one of THE most readable books by him, a sort of guide to the British underworld in the 50's & 60's. IIRC, Frankie's "Manor" was Kings Cross. Which was an upper-class leafy residential area then.

I never met him personally, but I spent a fair bit of time on the Costa Del Sol in the mid-1980's and I knew quite a few of the faces who were mainly based in Fuengirola who had for the most part made there money in the Krugerrand/VAT scams that seemed to be fashionable at that time. They were virtually all career villains and seemed to have grown up with the likes of the Krays et al and I remember sitting having a coffee with a couple of them when one of them said " look there's Frankie Fraser" who I later learnt was visiting the Costa Del Crime as a result of his involvement with the Brinks-Mat episode a few moths earlier IIRC.

[StuartHopkin]

I never forgive, that's for sure. Dunno about "hate", "pity" may be more like.

The daft thing is I bet it's happened to me 20 or more times.

The shutters have come down now. Unless they ask nicely.

As you already know Tikay I can definately relate to this and your story (which was a fantastic read by the way), I used to have a close friend from football he got transferred to a different club but instead of paying me back he avoided me for like a year. We have never been good friends since I asked him for it back a few times which is embarassing like you said, but he would always say he would pay me back but never bother. Heard a story recently that he got beat up in a subway something to do with owing people money for drugs, glad we are not friends anymore to be honest seems like people never change and just get worse. I never lend anyone money anymore espesh after the poker grimmings I've taken.

If I may ask - & I do NOT want names - you have not been around long - hpw many peeps have turned you over?

Excuse my fascination with the subject, but it seems to have got a lot worse in the last year or two. I actually have a weird theory that some folks are born without a shame gene. "Honour" used to be so important, now it's almost disappeared.

I agree with this. I hate owing anyone anything, Some people just dont seem to care. How can you borrow money with no intention of really paying it back and expect everything to be okay?

Someone who says your a tez friend for asking for it back was obviously never really a friend at all. My standard response to anyone is 'Did I make you wait to borrow it?'

[Cottonbud]

I never forgive, that's for sure. Dunno about "hate", "pity" may be more like.

The daft thing is I bet it's happened to me 20 or more times.

The shutters have come down now. Unless they ask nicely.

As you already know Tikay I can definately relate to this and your story (which was a fantastic read by the way), I used to have a close friend from football he got transferred to a different club but instead of paying me back he avoided me for like a year. We have never been good friends since I asked him for it back a few times which is embarassing like you said, but he would always say he would pay me back but never bother. Heard a story recently that he got beat up in a subway something to do with owing people money for drugs, glad we are not friends anymore to be honest seems like people never change and just get worse. I never lend anyone money anymore espesh after the poker grimmings I've taken.

If I may ask - & I do NOT want names - you have not been around long - hpw many peeps have turned you over?

Excuse my fascination with the subject, but it seems to have got a lot worse in the last year or two. I actually have a weird theory that some folks are born without a shame gene. "Honour" used to be so important, now it's almost disappeared.

Its not that many but 3, you know 1 of them the other 2 had big cashes so I assumed they just didn't have the money on them.. as you can't withdraw certain amounts out of cash machines. But after some pressure I found out one of them done their winnings online in a week after winning it, it was a 5 figure score £30k so pretty shocking to hear. He paid me back like half but I've never seen the rest since. The other guy is just a degen and hes done it to loads of other people too, claims hes going to pay people back but I'm pretty sure he is bust like the 1st guy I mentioned. But I've definately learnt my lesson and your advice helped me alot so I thank you for that

[tikay]

I never forgive, that's for sure. Dunno about "hate", "pity" may be more like.

The daft thing is I bet it's happened to me 20 or more times.

The shutters have come down now. Unless they ask nicely.

As you already know Tikay I can definately relate to this and your story (which was a fantastic read by the way), I used to have a close friend from football he got transferred to a different club but instead of paying me back he avoided me for like a year. We have never been good friends since I asked him for it back a few times which is embarassing like you said, but he would always say he would pay me back but never bother. Heard a story recently that he got beat up in a subway something to do with owing people money for drugs, glad we are not friends anymore to be honest seems like people never change and just get worse. I never lend anyone money anymore espesh after the poker grimmings I've taken.

If I may ask - & I do NOT want names - you have not been around long - hpw many peeps have turned you over?

Excuse my fascination with the subject, but it seems to have got a lot worse in the last year or two. I actually have a weird theory that some folks are born without a shame gene. "Honour" used to be so important, now it's almost disappeared.

Its not that many but 3, you know 1 of them the other 2 had big cashes so I assumed they just didn't have the money on them.. as you can't withdraw certain amounts out of cash machines. But after some pressure I found out one of them done their winnings online in a week after winning it, it was a 5 figure score £30k so pretty shocking to hear. He paid me back like half but I've never seen the rest since. The other guy is just a degen and hes done it to loads of other people too, claims hes going to pay people back but I'm pretty sure he is bust like the 1st guy I mentioned. But I've definately learnt my lesson and your advice helped me alot so I thank you for that

Thanks James. Sorry to bombard you, & don't answer if you don't want to, but this is a side of poker everyone prefers swept under the capet. Which is why it's so prevelant.

So how much "out" are you (excluding the stuff we discussed privately a while back), the footballer, & those above - are we talking in total (ball-park), £500, £1,000, £5,000, £10,000, more?

[tikay]

Aide memoir.

Dan Simons

TDCFS

Books

Frankie Fraser

BH

Cash.J

Frankie Fraser the blagger ?

None other.

Your paths ever cross? I have one of THE most readable books by him, a sort of guide to the British underworld in the 50's & 60's. IIRC, Frankie's "Manor" was Kings Cross. Which was an upper-class leafy residential area then.

I never met him personally, but I spent a fair bit of time on the Costa Del Sol in the mid-1980's and I knew quite a few of the faces who were mainly based in Fuengirola who had for the most part made there money in the Krugerrand/VAT scams that seemed to be fashionable at that time. They were virtually all career villains and seemed to have grown up with the likes of the Krays et al and I remember sitting having a coffee with a couple of them when one of them said " look there's Frankie Fraser" who I later learnt was visiting the Costa Del Crime as a result of his involvement with the Brinks-Mat episode a few moths earlier IIRC.

Wow, Frankie was very "short" (height) if I'm not mistaken, but not to be messed with.

If you are referring to the Brinks-Mat coup at Heathrow, that was some tale, but I don't recall Fraser being involved. Perhaps he kept it quiet.

They thought it held £4 million in cash, but there was no cash, just gold bullion. £25 million quids worth....oops.

A geezer called Noye arranged for it's sale, but all the money he receved he paid into his Bank, a little branch in the West Country, so naturally, it looked sussy, & proved his undoing. The cops were on to him, & staked out his house. Something went off, a copper got shot dead in his garden by Noye, but Noye got off on grounds of "self-defence". Ho hum.

Later, the Red-Tops got on his case after a so-called "Road-Rage" incident in which a geezer got shot in his car. Not self-defence this time, & Noye get life. But it was not Road-Rage, Noye & the other geezer were known to each other, both were drug dealers, & it was a dispute over money. Unpaid money.